Womanhood and injustices against women #2

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franmargio said:
No, the focus should be on understanding the broader societal factors at play in sexual assault and rape, and how certain male individuals or groups might be more vulnerable to engaging in harmful behaviours towards women. It could be that men who grew up in cultures where women are less respected in society may be more likely to engage in such actions. These behaviours may stem from societal factors rather than religion or race.

There is no denying that women are marginalised in many Muslim-majority countries, such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Afghanistan, where their human rights are severely restricted purely because they are women.
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This happened in Europe though, is the point. We have to fix our own culture wrt women and girls, instead of immediately thinking other cultures are somehow worse.
 
Blueblue123 said:
This feels a little too much like excusing the 33 men who committed an equally horrific crime. If being Arab or Muslim explains 18 of their actions, what's the rest of their excuses?

Once we've dealt with the Arabs and Muslims what do we do to fix the others?
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It's sort of a good question, except I would ask how do we fix males?

I think the real issue is how we address the broader problem with men, regardless of their background. We need to ask how we can address the behaviour of all men who commit such crimes.

A key part of the solution is better education. If boys in schools were taught from an early age about respect for women, understanding what rape and sexual assault are, what misogyny looks like, and that women are equals, that would be a strong start.

I also believe this programme should be compulsory for ALL MALES moving to France/England/wherever—whether for refuge or work. It’s not about race or religion but about ensuring that every male, regardless of their background, learns to respect women.
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In terms of proportionality, 10% of the male population in this area is Muslim, so statistically, you would expect around 5 Muslim men in a group of 50( I am not including the husband) However, with 18 Muslim men being involved, this is more than three times higher than what would be expected based on the population's proportional makeup. I AM SORRY I AM NOT GOD I DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS SAYING BUT IT CAN NOT BE IGNORED -BUT IT IS SAYING SOMETHING. I am glad ALL of the scummers are in prison and I hope they have the worst shittiest time.
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In terms of proportionality, 10% of the male population in this area is Muslim, so statistically, you would expect around 5 Muslim men in a group of 50( I am not including the husband) However, with 18 Muslim men being involved, this is more than three times higher than what would be expected based on the population's proportional makeup. I AM SORRY I AM NOT GOD I DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS SAYING BUT IT CAN NOT BE IGNORED -BUT IT IS SAYING SOMETHING. I am glad ALL of the scummers are in prison and I hope they have the worst shittiest time.
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franmargio said:
It's sort of a good question, except I would ask how do we fix males?

I think the real issue is how we address the broader problem with men, regardless of their background. We need to ask how we can address the behaviour of all men who commit such crimes.

A key part of the solution is better education. If boys in schools were taught from an early age about respect for women, understanding what rape and sexual assault are, what misogyny looks like, and that women are equals, that would be a strong start.

I also believe this programme should be compulsory for ALL MALES moving to France/England/wherever—whether for refuge or work. It’s not about race or religion but about ensuring that every male, regardless of their background, learns to respect women.
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franmargio said:
It's sort of a good question, except I would ask how do we fix males?

I think the real issue is how we address the broader problem with men, regardless of their background. We need to ask how we can address the behaviour of all men who commit such crimes.

A key part of the solution is better education. If boys in schools were taught from an early age about respect for women, understanding what rape and sexual assault are, what misogyny looks like, and that women are equals, that would be a strong start.

I also believe this programme should be compulsory for ALL MALES moving to France/England/wherever—whether for refuge or work. It’s not about race or religion but about ensuring that every male, regardless of their background, learns to respect women.
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Well, exactly. Womens lives in the West are better largely because of how society treats us, that women fought for. When it comes to how men treat us, I don't think we're too far off from some of the more misogynistic countries.

I'd even go as far to say some men in the West wish they could treat us the way some Arab and Muslim men are stereotyped to treat their women.

Just look at the popularity of Andrew Tate.
 
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It has been an interesting conversation, even if people have not agreed with me. I have listened to everyone's opinions and it has really made me think. I am going to bed now, as I've found the whole thing upsetting tbh. Sorry if I made mistakes and wrote things on the thread twice (not sure how to delete them!)
 
franmargio said:
It has been an interesting conversation, even if people have not agreed with me. I have listened to everyone's opinions and it has really made me think. I am going to bed now, as I've found the whole thing upsetting tbh. Sorry if I made mistakes and wrote things on the thread twice (not sure how to delete them!)
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If it's any consolation I can see exactly what you are getting at and agree with you. Proportionally speaking there were a greater number of men from a cultural background which considers women (particularly western women) as objects to be used. We don't know the ethnicity of the others who weren't caught though (There are over 20 more who haven't been identified and arrested IIRC) so who knows. As you say - it is not racist to point this out. It's facing the facts.

However,I also agree that many men from western cultures have the same contempt for women, and if they thought they could get away with it - as these men did for a very long time - then they would take advantage of the opportunity.

One of the things that shocked me was that even the men who declined Pelicot's "offer" didn't bother to contact the police or to warn Gisèle Pelicot.
 
Regina2071 said:
Men of all cultures need to be educated that Sex isnt a right, but a consensual act between 2 adults. I fear for women today with young men growing up on easily accessivle porn and a lack of respect for females...not all men ? but too many for my liking
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Unlimited access to extreme porn is probably more of a factor than race, although I think everyone understands that some cultures do treat women with much less respect than we supposedly do in the so-called "civilised" West.
It's also horrifying when you consider the age ranges of the rapists, and it really highlights how rape is about power and not sex. A 22 year old man, raping a 70+ sleeping grandmother? What kind of porn has he been watching, for god's sake?
I don't even know where to start when trying to understand the motives of the men involved in this case, but I do know that it has made me understand just how much danger we women are in, even when just going about our daily lives. Gisele has given us a gift, the magnitude of which cannot be overstated. We now know that, despite having the vote, despite having prestigious careers, despite owning our own property, despite all of the progress that has been made in women's rights over the last few decades...we are still prey. And we're at the mercy of the predators. Remember that, remember Gisele, and especially remember all of those "ordinary" guys, who were happy to violate a sleeping woman. We're always in danger.
 
I've been thinking a lot lately about the way men treat women, and I’m starting to wonder if things have changed for the worse. Extreme porn is a factor, and maybe it plays a role. But then, people watch violent films about serial killers (I enjoy watching them myself) and don't go out committing murders afterwards. The truth is, that men have been mistreating women throughout history — but something about recent experiences has felt different.

I used to work at a supermarket where I had to start my shift at 4 a.m., which meant walking to work at 3:30 a.m. One morning, two young men (maybe 19 years old) thought it would be funny to run toward me, shouting "boo" right in my face. They laughed like it was the funniest thing in the world. I didn’t find it funny. Scared the tit out of me. I thought to myself is this how young men behave now? Do they genuinely think it’s funny to scare a woman walking alone at night?

It's a reflection of a bigger societal problem, where some men feel entitled to make women uncomfortable or afraid, often without facing consequences. Too often, a man’s sexual desires or need for power come first, overshadowing women’s autonomy and safety. This disregard for women's boundaries speaks volumes about how women are often seen as objects for male entertainment or validation, rather than full human beings with their own rights to personal space and respect.

The question becomes: Where does it go from here?

For some men, this behaviour might escalate into something far worse, as they internalise the idea that their actions have no real consequences or that women’s discomfort is somehow justified.
 
franmargio said:
Extreme porn is a factor, and maybe it plays a role. But then, people watch violent films about serial killers (I enjoy watching them myself) and don't go out committing murders afterwards.
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Watching extreme porn seems to have made some men think that this is what 'normal' sex is, especially younger men who have grown up with access to it. I read something about the large percentage of young women who think that being choked during sex or engaging in rape roleplay is normal and expected, because this is what young men are wanting them to do. When we watch films about serial killers, we all know that it's not normal behaviour and only a very tiny minority are going to have their behaviour influenced by it.
 
I couldn't agree more @klarakluckbag and @franmargio. I posted this the other day on the Gender thread...

The longer I'm alive I have come to the conclusion that genuinely decent guys are the minority. Take away the criminals that are caught and those that aren't, the opportunistic shits, the violent abusers, the controllers, the ones that behave badly, the ones that secretly want to rape or hurt us, the everyday sexists and those that don't even comment on bad behaviour, let alone call it out and there's less than 50% left.

I agree education is important but it takes too long and some countries don't even acknowledge there's an issue. I'm starting to feel we should give all men some sort of drug to calm down the effects of testosterone so we can live in a more civilised society.
 
Man is quick to tell a woman we’re just as capable of committing sex offences 🤬
 

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petitspois said:
I couldn't agree more @klarakluckbag and @franmargio. I posted this the other day on the Gender thread...

The longer I'm alive I have come to the conclusion that genuinely decent guys are the minority. Take away the criminals that are caught and those that aren't, the opportunistic shits, the violent abusers, the controllers, the ones that behave badly, the ones that secretly want to rape or hurt us, the everyday sexists and those that don't even comment on bad behaviour, let alone call it out and there's less than 50% left.

I agree education is important but it takes too long and some countries don't even acknowledge there's an issue. I'm starting to feel we should give all men some sort of drug to calm down the effects of testosterone so we can live in a more civilised society.
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Was talking about this to a friend yesterday after reading the pathetic ‘excuses’ of the Pelicot rapists. Are all men just bad? And the nice ones we know/married to are just socially conditioned to be nice but underneath it’s there lurking. It’s made me feel quiet uneasy thinking about it.
 
Blond3g1rl said:
Was talking about this to a friend yesterday after reading the pathetic ‘excuses’ of the Pelicot rapists. Are all men just bad? And the nice ones we know/married to are just socially conditioned to be nice but underneath it’s there lurking. It’s made me feel quiet uneasy thinking about it.
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There are absolutely good men out there, we all have to believe that. There are just a lot less than many of us thought.
 
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