Real Life Crime and Murder #13

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Bima6694 said:
Also I think people are hearing cyclist and picturing someone bombing down the path in full lyrca. She was a 77 year old in her wee coat and handbag on what looks like a fold down bike, hardly a target difficult to dodge (on the path I mean)

https://www.12ft.io/https://www.dai...r-raising-hand-elderly-cyclist-collision.html
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yep, i mean sure you might be annoyed she’s on the pavement but she would have been easy to dodge and get around. i suppose the main crux of the case is the belief that the cyclist only ended up in the road because of the actions of the other woman - which based on the footage in the article seems very possible. to then walk away from the scene and go to do a grocery shop is very callous as others have said.

i feel for the poor car driver, would have had absolutely no opportunity to avoid that :(
 
Absolutely not making excuses her but this is from the mail from the court case..

in the probation officer's report read in court today, it stated that Grey has 'difficulty expressing emotions of any sort overtly, but does write them down'.
Her barrister said: 'That is her way of communicating the distress, remorse and empathy she feels for all the people involved and she showed these notes to the officer.
'She does not express emotions as you or I might, but the probation officer was able to be aware of them and the acknowledgement of the devastating impact her actions have had on all

So going shopping to me or you wouldn’t be normal but if she’s got some sort of disability maybe it would to her.
 
Aberscot said:
Absolutely not making excuses her but this is from the mail from the court case..

in the probation officer's report read in court today, it stated that Grey has 'difficulty expressing emotions of any sort overtly, but does write them down'.
Her barrister said: 'That is her way of communicating the distress, remorse and empathy she feels for all the people involved and she showed these notes to the officer.
'She does not express emotions as you or I might, but the probation officer was able to be aware of them and the acknowledgement of the devastating impact her actions have had on all

So going shopping to me or you wouldn’t be normal but if she’s got some sort of disability maybe it would to her.
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I feel sorrow for everybody involved in this - at a time when we should be encouraging cycling it just becomes less and less desirable because it is bloody dangerous. There are too many preventable deaths of cyclists -ultimately it is the poor city planning that puts cyclists and pedestrians in harms way (many cycle routes redirect you on to pavements but it isn’t clearly marked, so pedestrians won’t be expecting it!). Very sad. The hostile interaction between the two women is very typical of cycling in an suburban area I would say.
Where I live it is almost exclusively UberEats cyclists on the pavements, adding fuel to the fire.
 
I just watched it and there is two things that caught my attention.
Number one if it's a shared pavement then pedestrians have right of way, the cyclist should've slowed down and stopped as there was a lamp post on the pavement so from what I can see not enough room for both as they "met up" by the post. So a not guilty

Number two it's unclear to me because of the angle of the camera whether she actually pushed the cyclist in which case she's 100% guilty.

After seeing it I don't think I could give a guilty or no guilty. This was very unclear on what caused it. How the hell the poor jury had to make a decision on this I don't know.

Seeing the footage and hearing about it are completely different
 
Aberscot said:
Absolutely not making excuses her but this is from the mail from the court case..

in the probation officer's report read in court today, it stated that Grey has 'difficulty expressing emotions of any sort overtly, but does write them down'.
Her barrister said: 'That is her way of communicating the distress, remorse and empathy she feels for all the people involved and she showed these notes to the officer.
'She does not express emotions as you or I might, but the probation officer was able to be aware of them and the acknowledgement of the devastating impact her actions have had on all

So going shopping to me or you wouldn’t be normal but if she’s got some sort of disability maybe it would to her.
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This reminds me of the Jonty Bravery case... Tricky as there's disabilities involved but ultimately - they've proven they're dangerous within society. She might process/act different but at the end of the day she's harmed someone intentionally, the outcome is the same.

(Not arguing/disagreeing with you btw, just thinking out loud)
 
Bima6694 said:
The woman also did 'flee the scene' and was arrested doing her shopping in Sainsbury's... So yes I agree she didn't push her, and i don't think the path was so narrow that they couldnt have passed by (defendant was in the middle of the path). But to see someone get run over by a car and go do your shopping? Callous...
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This just makes me suspect she's a lot more cognitively impaired than the judge believes. Even the most callous person would be shaken seeing someone killed directly in front of them, even if they didn't cause it. To go about your day as if nothing's happened suggests she's not all there in my opinion
 
I read a BBC article which said she had visual impairment and Cerebral Palsy. I might be wrong but I didn’t think CP affected you cognitively. I only skim read the article so I maybe missed something.
I do agree it’s odd she was able to go off shopping as normal after witnessing the accident.
An awful case for everyone involved. The poor woman that died and her family, the pedestrian and the driver. 😔
 
twilightgarden said:
I read a BBC article which said she had visual impairment and Cerebral Palsy. I might be wrong but I didn’t think CP affected you cognitively.
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It could be that she has a brain injury at the root of it all causing visual impairment, cerebral palsy and a learning disability? It’s true that CP doesn’t affect cognitive function, but depending on the nature of the brain injury, many people have CP and a learning disability as well.

I agree with @Danica Catrick that her strange behaviour after the incident suggests she has some cognitive issues.
 
maytoseptember said:
It could be that she has a brain injury at the root of it all causing visual impairment, cerebral palsy and a learning disability? It’s true that CP doesn’t affect cognitive function, but depending on the nature of the brain injury, many people have CP and a learning disability as well.

I agree with @Danica Catrick that her strange behaviour after the incident suggests she has some cognitive issues.
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That’s a possibility for sure. The way it reads in the article makes her sound awful for just doing her shopping like nothing was wrong.
Her VI may have made her panic more about the bike being on the pavement as well.
A very sad case regardless.
 
twilightgarden said:
That’s a possibility for sure. The way it reads in the article makes her sound awful for just doing her shopping like nothing was wrong.
Her VI may have made her panic more about the bike being on the pavement as well.
A very sad case regardless.
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She also could have been in shock.

I think that this woman has been stitched up a bit here with a manslaughter charge to be honest. I cannot fathom why people keep suggesting she pushed or hit the cyclist either? You can see in the video that she doesn’t push her, at no point has she ever been accused of touching the cyclist by any witnesses and the police haven’t said she hit the cyclist either.
At the end of the day all she has done is waved and shouted, at the end of the day the woman riding the bike would have seen the physically disabled pedestrian coming towards her as well so I don’t understand why she didn’t slow down or even dismount far earlier on. I think it was a tragic accident and it’s awful that she died, but I personally feel a manslaughter charge is too much.
 
Deeznutslol said:
She also could have been in shock.

I think that this woman has been stitched up a bit here with a manslaughter charge to be honest. I cannot fathom why people keep suggesting she pushed or hit the cyclist either? You can see in the video that she doesn’t push her, at no point has she ever been accused of touching the cyclist by any witnesses and the police haven’t said she hit the cyclist either.
At the end of the day all she has done is waved and shouted, at the end of the day the woman riding the bike would have seen the physically disabled pedestrian coming towards her as well so I don’t understand why she didn’t slow down or even dismount far earlier on. I think it was a tragic accident and it’s awful that she died, but I personally feel a manslaughter charge is too much.
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Did you see the full video? It’s clearly very ambiguous near the end if there is a push/contact or not.
And if there was contact then 3 years is not enough. But sadly I don’t think we will ever know the truth here.
 
twilightgarden said:
I read a BBC article which said she had visual impairment and Cerebral Palsy. I might be wrong but I didn’t think CP affected you cognitively. I only skim read the article so I maybe missed something.
I do agree it’s odd she was able to go off shopping as normal after witnessing the accident.
An awful case for everyone involved. The poor woman that died and her family, the pedestrian and the driver. 😔
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I also read that she gave a false statement once taken to the police station.

I feel so conflicted about this one. My rambling comments. It wasn’t clear if the pavement was a shared space for cyclists and pedestrians, no one could confirm that. The footage before it gets cut off does appear to show a wandering arm from Grey in the direction of the victim but you can’t without reasonable doubt say that the victim was pushed. The way Grey continues about her day, going shopping is cruel and callous. The victim was an elderly lady and she looks like she lost her balance from the footage. Did she have the strength and reaction time to be in full control of her bike and able to stop her bike at a moments notice? No one knows. She also does not appear to be wearing a helmet, which I get is not a legal requirement but a sensible thing to do. The victim made a decision to ride on the pavement probably for safety reasons, unlikely with malicious or criminal intent. Children often ride on the pavement. What if the victim had been a child?
 
Greenfly125 said:
The footage before it gets cut off does appear to show a wandering arm from Grey in the direction of the victim but you can’t without reasonable doubt say that the victim was pushed.
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The reason the video cuts off is because a woman gets hit by a car and loses her life, they’re not going to release that to the public. The police and prosecution have obviously seen the full video and would know if Grey physically punched or hit the cyclist.
 
Deeznutslol said:
The reason the video cuts off is because a woman gets hit by a car and loses her life, they’re not going to release that to the public. The police and prosecution have obviously seen the full video and would know if Grey physically punched or hit the cyclist.
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I think they mean goes out of frame rather than cuts off. There's a bit right where they go out of frame where it looks as if she's turned and pushed her, then the lady falls into the road
 
Bima6694 said:
I think they mean goes out of frame rather than cuts off. There's a bit right where they go out of frame where it looks as if she's turned and pushed her, then the lady falls into the road
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I get what you mean, we don’t know if the police have purposely cropped the cctv like that to avoid showing the injury or if that’s the full extent of the angle. However, in the split second you see her turn directly towards the cyclist meaning the driver of the car would’ve had a full view of exactly what happened and if she’d pushed her they would’ve just said during questioning.
Also, again if there was any suggestion that she assaulted the cyclist, surely that’s what would’ve pushed in court. Instead she has been found guilty of causing the accident by ‘waving and shouting aggressively’.
 
maytoseptember said:
It’s a tragic situation all around. Two vulnerable women. A 77 year old riding a bike (I can see why she stuck to the pavement), without a helmet, and a disabled woman (you can see in photos her right arm is badly affected) with undisclosed cognitive issues.
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i think this is the absolute crux of it, two vulnerable women (and also a blameless driver who had no chance of avoiding what happened). the comment in the bbc article that grey has no one to look after her belongings while in prison did make me sad, though obviously has no bearing on the case itself. tragic all around.
 
Deeznutslol said:
The reason the video cuts off is because a woman gets hit by a car and loses her life, they’re not going to release that to the public. The police and prosecution have obviously seen the full video and would know if Grey physically punched or hit the cyclist.
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Oh I know why the video was cut short. I meant that’s when you see the wandering arm. The actual confrontation is out of shot. Like others have said, we don’t know if what has been released is a cropped version of what was in court.
 
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