Owen Jones

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Gym&Tonic said:
As someone who is left of centre politically I think he’s a cock, and it’s him and his ilk that are everything that is wrong with the Labour Party today. As some who is genuinely from a working class background I can safely say that until they get rid of Momentum and the Corbynistas they will never be elected again. Im as angry with Labour as I am with the Tories, they should be trouncing them in the polls given party gate etc and they’re not for the reasons I’ve already stated above. What a mess this country is in.
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As a die hard Labour supporter all of my life and I am now 71 unfortunately I have to agree with you . Corbyn and Momentum caused me to resign from the Labour Party. I had been involved in many different capacities for many years but in my opinion they killed the party . I rejoined after Corbyn but am seriously thinking of resigning again and withdrawing my financial support because I am sick of the in fighting at both local and national level . I don't know who to vote for at the minute because I am a firm believer in always using your vote but it could be the first time in my life that I haven't voted .
 
Ndrangheta said:
Generally speaking people who write for the Guardian only really care about one thing and one thing alone: themselves, their byline, and trying to impress equally shallow people at dinner parties.
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The Guardian readership is so limited they have to have begging adverts constantly popping up on their site. They like to crow about how their "reader funded" model is working but is it really, if they have to continue to plead for cash?
 
Warpaint said:
I read that it happened gradually in the 80's where some people took to claiming 'working = working class'. It seems the left ran with it. It happened with a lot of bands and artists around the next few decades too who pretended to be more working class than they work. I think Owen Jones and people like him are just the end result of it all.
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i have had this argument/debate with a lot of people who claim to be working class because they deem their parents to be. This is from people that are in their 30/40s or even older. Personally I think it’s a rejection of the notion that they could be what you call middle class as that has connotations especially in Scotland of that you are liable to be seen then as a conservative. We have this notion that Scotland along with the North of England where an industrial working class area and Thatcher was voted in by middle class England. You therefore have people that have degrees, whose Parents may have started as working class but 30/40 years of work has saw them rise up from where they lived to much nicer areas label themselves as working class. I think as a concept working class is hard to define now as the employment market has changed so much. You can have people in their 20s from crap areas go into a trade now and be earning 30k plus whereas you could have middle class kids go to university and end up working in a call centre earning less in their 20s. How do you class those two now?
 
Glortard said:
i have had this argument/debate with a lot of people who claim to be working class because they deem their parents to be. This is from people that are in their 30/40s or even older. Personally I think it’s a rejection of the notion that they could be what you call middle class as that has connotations especially in Scotland of that you are liable to be seen then as a conservative. We have this notion that Scotland along with the North of England where an industrial working class area and Thatcher was voted in by middle class England. You therefore have people that have degrees, whose Parents may have started as working class but 30/40 years of work has saw them rise up from where they lived to much nicer areas label themselves as working class. I think as a concept working class is hard to define now as the employment market has changed so much. You can have people in their 20s from crap areas go into a trade now and be earning 30k plus whereas you could have middle class kids go to university and end up working in a call centre earning less in their 20s. How do you class those two now?
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A huge amount of working class people now are on a Thousand Pounds a week or more , have new trades vans, decent house etc ; have good access to credit and good holidays, clothes etc.
They certainly don't want to go back to their Parents era of Labour , miserable rubbing 2 10pence pieces together, and moaning while being on strike at the factory or warehouse, or whatever.
That's what Labour cannot understand.
It's 2022 & people love to spend money. The vast majority of working population in the UK have decent lifestyles. Trained people, like Builders, Plumbers and Electricians don't get out of bed or out of the Pub for less than £200+ a day. Minimum rate jobs pay nearly £400/ week now for a 44 hr week. And there's help with housing benefits child benefit and other help ; tax credits, council tax benefit etc. All this helps people.
You can earn £12,500/ year without paying a Penny in income tax.
Labour, I remember, wanted to introduce a tax on the poorest paid workers, at 10p in the Pound. People seem to have short memories.

Who the hell wants to fall back to all that crap of years ago that Labour stands for?

No one I know, and thats the truth. We were talking about this with a group of people a few weeks ago.

Labour would sooner chase the loon fringe for votes they are that desperate.

There may be things wrong with Government ( and that applies in every Nation the World over) but the UK has a lot right.
 
VC10 said:
A huge amount of working class people now are on a Thousand Pounds a week or more , have new trades vans, decent house etc ; have good access to credit and good holidays, clothes etc.
They certainly don't want to go back to their Parents era of Labour , miserable rubbing 2 10pence pieces together, and moaning while being on strike at the factory or warehouse, or whatever.
That's what Labour cannot understand.
It's 2022 & people love to spend money. The vast majority of working population in the UK have decent lifestyles. Trained people, like Builders, Plumbers and Electricians don't get out of bed or out of the Pub for less than £200+ a day. Minimum rate jobs pay nearly £400/ week now for a 44 hr week. And there's help with housing benefits child benefit and other help ; tax credits, council tax benefit etc. All this helps people.
You can earn £12,500/ year without paying a Penny in income tax.
Labour, I remember, wanted to introduce a tax on the poorest paid workers, at 10p in the Pound. People seem to have short memories.

Who the hell wants to fall back to all that crap of years ago that Labour stands for?

No one I know, and thats the truth. We were talking about this with a group of people a few weeks ago.

Labour would sooner chase the loon fringe for votes they are that desperate.

There may be things wrong with Government ( and that applies in every Nation the World over) but the UK has a lot right.
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A huge amount of working class people are struggling to cover their basic living costs and there are unprecedented numbers of people having to rely on food banks. This is the reality of a Conservative government.
 
VC10 said:
A huge amount of working class people now are on a Thousand Pounds a week or more , have new trades vans, decent house etc ; have good access to credit and good holidays, clothes etc.
They certainly don't want to go back to their Parents era of Labour , miserable rubbing 2 10pence pieces together, and moaning while being on strike at the factory or warehouse, or whatever.
That's what Labour cannot understand.
It's 2022 & people love to spend money. The vast majority of working population in the UK have decent lifestyles. Trained people, like Builders, Plumbers and Electricians don't get out of bed or out of the Pub for less than £200+ a day. Minimum rate jobs pay nearly £400/ week now for a 44 hr week. And there's help with housing benefits child benefit and other help ; tax credits, council tax benefit etc. All this helps people.
You can earn £12,500/ year without paying a Penny in income tax.
Labour, I remember, wanted to introduce a tax on the poorest paid workers, at 10p in the Pound. People seem to have short memories.

Who the hell wants to fall back to all that crap of years ago that Labour stands for?

No one I know, and thats the truth. We were talking about this with a group of people a few weeks ago.

Labour would sooner chase the loon fringe for votes they are that desperate.

There may be things wrong with Government ( and that applies in every Nation the World over) but the UK has a lot right.
Click to expand...

These people aren’t working class. They are the new upwardly mobile lower middle class. Working class people are those who work in shops, supermarkets, factories, the care sector, labouring, taxi drivers and the service industry etc. Manual unskilled work on a zero hours contract, and they really do struggle. They don’t earn enough to break even or but earn too much claim benefits.
 
Gym&Tonic said:
As someone who is left of centre politically I think he’s a cock, and it’s him and his ilk that are everything that is wrong with the Labour Party today. As some who is genuinely from a working class background I can safely say that until they get rid of Momentum and the Corbynistas they will never be elected again. Im as angry with Labour as I am with the Tories, they should be trouncing them in the polls given party gate etc and they’re not for the reasons I’ve already stated above. What a mess this country is in.
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Totally agree with this, I was a lifelong Labour supporter/voter and the last general election I didn't vote, as the whole Looney Lefties had returned from the days of Hatton, the unions and the hypocrisy of the middle classes wanting to help/patronise the working class by telling us how to think... Until its had a full on cleanse I'm for now without a party and cannot bring myself to vote Tory...
 
George Agdgdgwngo said:
Let’s be frank, labour have gone bizarre and leftie. They’ve given up on working classes priorities and are obsessed with other things. Keef has been disappointing.
Working class people want a good income and job security, good public services efc
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Lefties lol. They are traditionally a left-wing, socialist party. Their roots has been in fighting for the equal rights of working class people. Their obsession with identity politics at the expense of addressing economic and class inequalities its absolutely daft though and has lost them a lot of support.
 
Whatevesmate said:
Lefties lol. They are traditionally a left-wing, socialist party. Their roots has been in fighting for the equal rights of working class people. Their obsession with identity politics at the expense of addressing economic and class inequalities its absolutely daft though and has lost them a lot of support.
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the dithering and sitting on the wall with Brexit betrayed those who voted to leave the EU, as if there views didnt matter and still don’t with the gender obsession
 
DevonshirePixie said:
Totally agree with this, I was a lifelong Labour supporter/voter and the last general election I didn't vote, as the whole Looney Lefties had returned from the days of Hatton, the unions and the hypocrisy of the middle classes wanting to help/patronise the working class by telling us how to think... Until its had a full on cleanse I'm for now without a party and cannot bring myself to vote Tory...
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I'm totally with you . In my local election I'm voting independent because I like his manifesto but if there was a general election next month I just don't know . I could never vote Tory but also I struggle with the idea of not voting because my ability to vote was hard fought for as a woman .
 
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