Michael Barrymore - death in the pool

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Horatio said:
He was a blue peter presenter caught doing a class a drug, I’m pretty sure that would happen now.... not just for a children’s presenter but anyone in a high profile role at the BBC. They are paid a lot of money to entertain, provide information, be a reliable face on tv.
It’s not about doing it, ‘everyone’s at it’ in the worlds of lily Allen -it’s about being caught doing it. If you aren’t sacked you have to resign. But lots of people make a comeback in 6 months, remember Kate Moss being dropped from H&M and a bunch of other campaigns when photos of her doing lines were published ? As if anyone was shocked, but the brands had no choice. She went to a rich person ‘rehab’ ie spa and 6 months later was making more money than ever.
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I don't think he was even caught if my memory serves me correctly...I think he just admitted to taking it! It was a huge scandal, like he'd admitted to punching a baby or something lol. There was even a Queen's Speech-like on-air apology on his behalf.

All I was saying is that it's difficult in retrospect to see how frowned upon it was when Michael Barrymore came out as gay, especially in the manner that he did. Things weren't quite the same for him after that. The murder was the nail in the coffin of a declining career.
 
NParker said:
I don't think he was even caught if my memory serves me correctly...I think he just admitted to taking it! It was a huge scandal, like he'd admitted to punching a baby or something lol. There was even a Queen's Speech-like on-air apology on his behalf.

All I was saying is that it's difficult in retrospect to see how frowned upon it was when Michael Barrymore came out as gay, especially in the manner that he did. Things weren't quite the same for him after that. The murder was the nail in the coffin of a declining career.
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It says on Wikipedia that the news of the world reported he had taken coke so sounds like he had no choice at that point.
(Richard bacon not MB if anyone is skim reading ) yes when the bbc exec went on tv to explain his bad behaviour to the kiddies it was a ludicrous moment, I had actually forgotten that.

What about his coming out was bad for MB’s career ? I only know what I’ve read on Wikipedia but I’m wary of feeding into his vicrim narrative, thinking back to his behaviour on CBB - this man is the ultimate victim, this man is also a bully. We saw both, he broke down and cried about his life, and he spoke fo Jodie Marsh like she was subhuman. I don’t doubt the papers were very homophobic and treated him badly. But it sounds like he was on a downward spiral of drink and drugs - he came out by singing “start spreading the news, I’m gay today” (New York New York) in kareoke at a pub? He was attacked his wife in a hotel room? He’s definetely had moments of being unhinged and fame didn’t help that at all.
I think this is a guy who hates women and hates himself more. He can’t take responsibility for his actions and has a host of excuses for all the bad things that have happened in his life - the media, addiction, his ex wife - nothing is his fault. Though as i admit I don’t remember his coming out or any of that at the time so will happily listen to your argument ?
 
And a waste of coke... with a good amount that’s only going to numb someone’s mouth, you can’t get high. Im sure any coke head worth his sauce would know that, so maybe he wasn’t doing it to spike people but as some kind of bizarre prank or something like that ? Really odd, and a bit disturbing. I loathe people who give others drugs without their knowledge, (even if it won’t make them high). It’s the actions of a scumbag and never ever funny.

EDIT. - hold on have I got the wrong end of the stick? The coke was for him ? Still a huge waste then
 
Horatio said:
And a waste of coke... with a good amount that’s only going to numb someone’s mouth, you can’t get high. Im sure any coke head worth his sauce would know that, so maybe he wasn’t doing it to spike people but as some kind of bizarre prank or something like that ? Really odd, and a bit disturbing. I loathe people who give others drugs without their knowledge, (even if it won’t make them high). It’s the actions of a scumbag and never ever funny.

EDIT. - hold on have I got the wrong end of the stick? The coke was for him ? Still a huge waste then
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no you haven't got the wrong end of the stick, Cheryl said it was put into the gravy jug when there were dinner guests, so I guess everyone Is using the jug and is unaware of it. yes it is a strange prank and a dangerous one too.
 
I watched the documentary and was as shocked as everyone else. IMO the 3 men arrested (Barrymore + 2 others) are all complicit and if one told the truth then it would implicate himself as much as the other two. They attacked Stuart when high on drink and drugs, probably because he rejected their advances. One of them must have held him down, one of them used something to penetrate his anus (thermometer, door handle, fist), the third may only have watched but by not stopping it, he is as guilty as the other two. The other 5 at the party may not have seen or heard what was happening outside if they had gone inside the house. Those three will never tell the truth, it is not in their own interests to, and the police don't have the physical evidence to charge them. They should all be sent to prison for life but with no physical evidence or other witnesses, they can't individually be found guilty. How Barrymore can have the gall to repeatedly try to get back on television is totally beyond me, but its something of a compulsion by some people driven by ambition to be famous and achieving the fame that they then can't let go of it. There is something in their psyche that is very different to the rest of us. They are somehow damaged, lacking in empathy, narcissistic.
 
I think that’s all very plausible but disagree slightly with the last point about Barrymore’s psyche. I think he has quite a typical personality trait taken to the extreme -victimhood, tarnished by celebrity. One of those people who is never in the wrong, yet constantly wronged. fame and attention adds a more unusual element which is potentially quite dangerous - things do not end well for famous people who let their ego run away with them and feel untouchable. Probably creates a disconnection between him and ordinary people and made him lack empathy as you say above.

The thing about people who are never at fault, they believe a lot of it themselves. I think the reason MB has been able to go on tv multiple times to talk about this is he has convinced himself he did nothing wrong. Yes perhaps he is technically “guilty” or an “accessory” but what happened is not.his.fault. He has to keep any information he knows quiet because the police and media are out to pin it on him. It’s not really a lie to say he knows nothing about what happened that night because none of it was his fault so why should he be blamed for it by speaking out ? All that sort of tit.
 
One thing I can't find, if anyone else knows... mention of two people being paid off by Barrymore to keep quiet. Who were they? Surely that's perverting the course of justice if that's known to the police?

Horatio said:
I think that’s all very plausible but disagree slightly with the last point about Barrymore’s psyche. I think he has quite a typical personality trait taken to the extreme -victimhood, tarnished by celebrity. One of those people who is never in the wrong, yet constantly wronged. fame and attention adds a more unusual element which is potentially quite dangerous - things do not end well for famous people who let their ego run away with them and feel untouchable. Probably creates a disconnection between him and ordinary people and made him lack empathy as you say above.

The thing about people who are never at fault, they believe a lot of it themselves. I think the reason MB has been able to go on tv multiple times to talk about this is he has convinced himself he did nothing wrong. Yes perhaps he is technically “guilty” or an “accessory” but what happened is not.his.fault. He has to keep any information he knows quiet because the police and media are out to pin it on him. It’s not really a lie to say he knows nothing about what happened that night because none of it was his fault so why should he be blamed for it by speaking out ? All that sort of tit.
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Victimhood is part of being narcissistic, and believing that they are always right. When I say 'damaged', I'm not saying that should mean we're sympathetic towards him, just that somewhere along the line he either didn't develop normally, or something went wrong later (whether that's because of the fame, drink, drugs) that means he has not reacted as others would.

I agree with you that he thinks saying that he knows nothing isn't really a lie because he doesn't think it was his fault if he didn't actually carry out the hideous assault, but if he wasn't there at all when it happened then surely he would have thrown the other two to the wolves, so it only makes sense that he WAS there because they would say he was, and the other witnesses must have said that he wasn't in the house at the time but was in the hot tub with the other two and Stuart. Him claiming that he had popped in to put his trunks on at that late stage of the night, then saw Stuart floating in the pool on his way back, is clearly rubbish and the police don't believe that for a second.
 
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Fran B said:
Surely all a decent investigating team needs to do is interrogate all of them individually and one will crack?
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Well I guess they tried that when they arrested all three of them but none of them did. Michael Barrymore scarpering before the police even got there is very telling, with 'something' under his arm.

The reporting of it from the beginning has I think downplayed the assault itself. Even calling it 'sexual' suggests that it was sexually motivated which possibly suggests that Stuart might have been gay and that it might have started out as consensual. It doesn't matter if he's gay or straight, or if this happened to a man or a women - it was a shockingly serious assualt, resulting in horrific internal injuries which killed him. I think the level of AGGRESSION that would be needed by the perpetrator(s) to carry out such a serious assault has been greatly underplayed. I may be incredibly naive but I can't see that the perpretrator(s) got any sexual gratification out of this, it was just to cause pain.

To suggest that these injuries were caused in the hospital was I think the point where I felt that MB was either in very deep denial that this could have happened at his house, or was guilty as sin, and I'm inclined to think its the latter mainly because he left the scene and items were removed, most likely by himself, his then boyfriend, or his PA.
 
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