Liam Payne #5

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Kelly1822 said:
This could also be true. Many women are so desperate for a certain lifestyle that they will put up with anything to get it. To look like you’re living the best life on instagram. This is having such a negative impact of the younger generation also. My daughter wants to be a millionaire & will believe everything she sees on instagram or tik tok. She is 14.
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It's not just the clothes, handbags and luxury hotels, it's the nails, hair, teeth, lashes, brows, tanning and other various cosmetic procedures required just to appear in public. Gone are the days of clean washed hair, a slick of lipgloss, a decent high street fashion outfit, and off you go. These women lead high maintenance lives, but a lot of them aren't in any position to afford such expense.

I hope when my own daughter (currently a tiny baby and not interested in anything other than when her next feed is :D) reaches her teens, the emphasis on looking perfect and wearing only high end items, is no longer a thing.

It's going to be hard for Kate to adjust to 'normal' life after two years living with a multimillionaire.
 
Kelly1822 said:
This could also be true. Many women are so desperate for a certain lifestyle that they will put up with anything to get it. To look like you’re living the best life on instagram. This is having such a negative impact of the younger generation also. My daughter wants to be a millionaire & will believe everything she sees on instagram or tik tok. She is 14.
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It affects both sexes tbh. I mean, there’s nothing wrong with wanting to be rich per se, but I feel it needs to be balanced with having real career ambitions (or some other kind of purpose) to make it happen, and other hobbies and interests too. I personally don’t understand how someone like Kate can be comfortable being 25 and not having a career or really doing anything meaningful with her life. The years roll by so quickly and I’d hate to look back and see I haven’t achieved much and that I’ve just lived off other people’s money. For all Liam’s faults he had a clear purpose and worked bloody hard for his success and wealth, I just wish Kate would take inspiration from him and try to make her own way in life.
 
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Rolling stone has obtained a 91 page legal document filed by Roger's legal council, detailing the extent of Liam's drug use over the last two years. Apparently, he's required resuscitation twice, been hospitalised multiple times and been in rehab several times.

This is the problem with trying to make other people responsible for an individual's actions; any hope of Bear escaping the worst of his father is gone now, because the people charged with offences over this are going to defend themselves, and Liam is going to be absolutely dragged in the process.
 
MammaTubbs said:
More details from Roger: https://www.nme.com/news/music/liam...eath-multiple-times-before-fatal-fall-3823934
Claims Liam had been resuscitated twice previously, had used heroin previously too, tour was cancelled due to a serious drug related incident, that Geoff had tried to get him committed earlier this year and that he was convulsing in the lobby 😞
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Interesting read, but I wonder how much of it is true and can be independently corroborated. Some discrepancies I noticed: that article is still claiming Liam had pink cocaine and other stuff in his system despite the subsequent report coming out that he only had traces of alcohol and antidepressants in his body. It's alleged he had a serious drug-related incident in September 2023, was hospitalised in Milan, then went to rehab afterwards, which forced him to cancel the South American tour. But we know from articles online that the announcement of tour cancellation happened in August of 2023, not September. He claims Liam was in rehab in Spain in March of this year, this isn't a discrepancy as such, but what on Earth was Liam doing in Spain? As far as I'm aware he wasn't on holiday there and didn't have any work engagements or events there, did he?

So while some of the specifics of that article could be lies, it sadly paints the true overall picture that Liam was absolutely crippled by drug use. Even if he hadn't died in Argentina I fail to see how he could have lived even another couple of years with this many overdoses and resuscitations. I shudder to think of the damaged state his liver must have been in.
 
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Eurghh it feels awful to even write it, but in the long term maybe it's better for 🐻 to actually know all this?
Far easier in the long run to accept that your dad was sadly very unwell, but that everyone around him you hold dear like your grandparents etc fought for him until the end as opposed to the alternative where he's been failed by those around him, failed by businesses, health professionals etc?
Whenever I think of it my heart just breaks for Cheryl, as she's already had to break his heart once and she now has to spend the rest of his childhood putting it back together, to only break it again when she eventually has to tell him all this 💔😭
I lost a parent when I was about his age, and I feel for him so much, as when you find out that your parent wasn't the saint that you idolised them to be, it's an even harder blow than the original loss 😞
 
Roger stated in an email to Liam's family in August 2024 that 'I am going to stay fully out of the picture and disconnected from now on and I wish you all the best with Liam's health'

From then, Liam was rarely seen in America or Argentina without Roger stuck to him when be returned.

Liam was filming the show Making The Band in Manchester in August and AJ from Backstreet Boys confirmed Liam was completely sober during that time. Strange how anytime Liam was around Roger, he had issues with keeping his sobriety.

He makes me sick, taking shots at Liam's family claiming they let him take drugs and making out only he himself was trying to keep Liam clean when the opposite was infact the case.

There is much more to this, and to Roger, that isn't in the public domain but it should be. He shouldn't be allowed to drag Liam through the mud when he's no longer here to defend himself and tell the truth about Roger.

Liam's family are handling this the right way and Roger's punishment will come.

Liam wasn't innocent, but he owned his flaws & was trying to overcome his demons, unlike Roger who quite clearly doesn't see himself as the liar & enabler he actually is.
 
Glasgowgal1 said:
He makes me sick, taking shots at Liam's family claiming they let him take drugs and making out only he himself was trying to keep Liam clean when the opposite was infact the case.
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Huh? He said that there was nothing his family and friends could do, and that even when his Dad (COMPLETELY understandably) tried to have him sectioned Liam just checked himself out of the hospital. He said that they allowed him to take drugs to prevent him becoming violent on a single occasion. The friends and families of addicts spend a lot of time having to make horrible decisions in my experience, and sometimes that includes allowing them to take their drug of choice in the closest thing they can get to a safe space. I know someone who used to drive to dealers to pick up heroin for her son while she was trying to get him help, because her getting it and controlling it was safer than what he got up to if she left him to it.

They are *not* the first people to do it, and they won't be the last. Quite frankly, anyone judging them for that can go and get fucked, in my opinion. It sounds to me like everyone concerned was doing the best they could for Liam, and that even Liam himself tried up to a point. It's absolutely tragic that he wouldn't go along with being sectioned; who knows how different this would have turned out?
 
Id love to know Kate's feelings about Roger, as she seemingly knew him best out of those around Liam during the last few years.
Reportedly she did feel he had too much influence on Liam, and it'd be a double kick in the teeth if all along he's been helping him source the drugs, prostitutes etc which is the very opposite of what he was supposed to be doing to help, and then have the ******* cheek of it to dish it all so publicly.

I'm surprised no ones managed to get any details from Rogers girlfriend, considering she must have spent a fair bit of time with Roger, Liam and Kate.

One thing that does strike me though from all this, rather than Roger sharing the texts, the hotel leaking the CCTV and pictures, one other source would have ALL that info (I haven't seen them myself but someone previously on here said in that picture there's crime scene markers too.) and that's really worrying to consider as they are responsible for ensuring a fair investigation has been completed, which it won't end up being in the end due to all the leaks!

I'm glad that it seems like the Paynes are taking their own separate legal advice, not just from an Argentina perspective but maybe UK too. Assuming both Geoff and Liam were in the UK, if Geoff requested Liam to be sectioned, he should have at the least been provided with a response as to why Liam wouldn't be assessed.
Sadly Liam's choice and compliance shouldn't have even been a factor at that point as with previous OD's on record he should easily have been classed as a danger to himself 😞
 
For once, maybe it's a good thing that some fans are creating conspiracy theories and saying this is all a cover up. Its bs but at least in someway it protects Liam's name because the fans are trying to push his clean image, saying he wouldn't touch drugs or cheat. His life was more than just his last day. Its sad that his family have to go through this so publicly
 
MammaTubbs said:
Assuming both Geoff and Liam were in the UK, if Geoff requested Liam to be sectioned, he should have at the least been provided with a response as to why Liam wouldn't be assessed.
Sadly Liam's choice and compliance shouldn't have even been a factor at that point as with previous OD's on record he should easily have been classed as a danger to himself 😞
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My experience is that people who take accidental overdoses while in the throes of addiction rarely get sectioned.

We're barely sectioning people who take deliberate OD's at this point. One of my Mum's oldest friends lost both her sons to suicide, and she fought like a lion for both of them, nobody on earth could accuse her of not trying to save them. It's one of the reasons I'm reluctant to play the blame game over this, you can have the best family and friends in the world - and apparently unlimited money, too - but the sad truth is that if you're not ready to be helped, there's very little anyone can do.
 
LadyWeatherwax said:
My experience is that people who take accidental overdoses while in the throes of addiction rarely get sectioned.

We're barely sectioning people who take deliberate OD's at this point. One of my Mum's oldest friends lost both her sons to suicide, and she fought like a lion for both of them, nobody on earth could accuse her of not trying to save them. It's one of the reasons I'm reluctant to play the blame game over this, you can have the best family and friends in the world - and apparently unlimited money, too - but the sad truth is that if you're not ready to be helped, there's very little anyone can do.
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It's so so sad, for Liam and anyone else with mental health and/or addiction issues, and of course their loved ones who share their burden with them 💔

Our mental health service is so stretched, and you assume having money/accessing private services can make it all go away, but time and time again this proves not to be the case 😞
 
If Liam was deemed to still have capacity under the mca 2005 act at the time they tried to section him, he'd be free to leave.

In addition they couldn't have used the mha 83 either if he did not have a mh disorder and was sectionable.

Ultimately in mh cases, the individual has to usually want help and can rarely be forced unless there is a severe risk to life.. human rights claims could be made if forced against will
 
LadyWeatherwax said:
My experience is that people who take accidental overdoses while in the throes of addiction rarely get sectioned.

We're barely sectioning people who take deliberate OD's at this point. One of my Mum's oldest friends lost both her sons to suicide, and she fought like a lion for both of them, nobody on earth could accuse her of not trying to save them. It's one of the reasons I'm reluctant to play the blame game over this, you can have the best family and friends in the world - and apparently unlimited money, too - but the sad truth is that if you're not ready to be helped, there's very little anyone can do.
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BIB I once spoke to an A&E medic who said they'd often try to convince the 'frequent flyer' accidental OD patients to let them record the OD as deliberate as this was the only way to guarantee a psych evaluation before discharge. This was a while ago as well, way before COVID messed everything up. A similar storyline was used in an ITV drama a couple of years ago, too.
Not that this would have made much difference in Liam's case. He had the money to go private if he genuinely wanted to get [and stay] clean.
 
LadyWeatherwax said:
My experience is that people who take accidental overdoses while in the throes of addiction rarely get sectioned.

We're barely sectioning people who take deliberate OD's at this point. One of my Mum's oldest friends lost both her sons to suicide, and she fought like a lion for both of them, nobody on earth could accuse her of not trying to save them. It's one of the reasons I'm reluctant to play the blame game over this, you can have the best family and friends in the world - and apparently unlimited money, too - but the sad truth is that if you're not ready to be helped, there's very little anyone can do.
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Will Youngs twin was the very same…. He was in hospital because of being it after Will kicked him out after years of heartache and managed to escape and unalive himself. The NHS just don’t have the funds or people to help!

www.walesonline.co.uk

Will Young shares his guilt at being unable to save his brother from alcoholism

Will Young's twin brother took his own life following a battle with alcoholism in 2020
www.walesonline.co.uk
 
I'm sat here right now and honestly trying to wrack my brain to think of a pop band where at least one member hasn't had issues with their mental health and/or substance abuse.
More needs to be done, even taking it back to the basics of what kids are taught in schools.
Just like Liam and many of you here I guess, I went to a state funded secondary school at roughly the same time.
Our minimal teaching on substances was just a blanket don't take this or that or you could die.
Absolutely zero explanation at all of how much your life and the lives of those around you could be affected by you doing this whilst alive 😞
IT WILL RUIN YOU
If Liam was a tick box exercise for success he'd meet every box, bags of talent, a firm friend, a loving son and brother, healthy baby boy, nation sweetheart girlfriend, millions in the bank and a massively charitable donor.
All that and it wasn't enough for him to save himself 😔
 
MammaTubbs said:
I'm sat here right now and honestly trying to wrack my brain to think of a pop band where at least one member hasn't had issues with their mental health and/or substance abuse.
More needs to be done, even taking it back to the basics of what kids are taught in schools.
Just like Liam and many of you here I guess, I went to a state funded secondary school at roughly the same time.
Our minimal teaching on substances was just a blanket don't take this or that or you could die.
Absolutely zero explanation at all of how much your life and the lives of those around you could be affected by you doing this whilst alive 😞
IT WILL RUIN YOU
If Liam was a tick box exercise for success he'd meet every box, bags of talent, a firm friend, a loving son and brother, healthy baby boy, nation sweetheart girlfriend, millions in the bank and a massively charitable donor.
All that and it wasn't enough for him to save himself 😔
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I think it comes down to having a huge level of success to what feels like nothing over night. When you're at the height of your fame, you don't have time to take it in and really enjoy it because you're constantly on the go. When it slows down and you reflect on it, you start to think what's changed? Why is no one interested anymore? The other people I worked with are doing well. Why not me? And it can mess with your mind.
 
MammaTubbs said:
I'm sat here right now and honestly trying to wrack my brain to think of a pop band where at least one member hasn't had issues with their mental health and/or substance abuse.
More needs to be done, even taking it back to the basics of what kids are taught in schools.
Just like Liam and many of you here I guess, I went to a state funded secondary school at roughly the same time.
Our minimal teaching on substances was just a blanket don't take this or that or you could die.
Absolutely zero explanation at all of how much your life and the lives of those around you could be affected by you doing this whilst alive 😞
IT WILL RUIN YOU
If Liam was a tick box exercise for success he'd meet every box, bags of talent, a firm friend, a loving son and brother, healthy baby boy, nation sweetheart girlfriend, millions in the bank and a massively charitable donor.
All that and it wasn't enough for him to save himself 😔
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We always got taught as well that it's "poor" people, people with tattoos, "rough" people etc that take drugs too. More needs to be done to teach children that a) it can happen to anyone and b) to always be kinder
 
The thing is though, people know it can happen to anyone and ruin lives. We all know this and Liam would have too, both with alcohol and drugs. But that isn't necessarily something you're thinking about or truly considering the long-term ramifications of when you're deeply struggling. When you're in pain because of what people are saying about you, when you're beyond stressed about being locked in hotel rooms, when you're exhausted by your routine, when you don't feel you're good enough... And so I imagine it's incredibly easy to turn to something, anything, to numb the pain. And all it takes is taking it one time to become addicted for life.

I've just seen the netflix trailer for a documentary about Avicii, his success and downfall. It's so sad to think there'll probably be one about Liam in the years to come.
 
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