Gender Discussion #69

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It’s anyone’s guess to be honest.
 
idk21 said:
I wonder why too. I’m sure it’s to do with special powers stemming from his penis-looking vagina*, and not his XY chromosomes or anything like that 🤔

*that apparently everyone on Twitter and Reddit except us have seen and can confirm its existence of
Click to expand...

Come on, that's just common sense. We know that IK was observed to be female at birth, so obviously their genitals must look female. Algeria is extremely backwards over anything like intersex, so while it's possible they might have internal testicles (possibly; not confirmed) it's pretty obvious from the fact Algerian doctors never noticed anything to make them suspect IK wasn't female, that she has a vagina that looks like a vagina, and doesn't have anything that is visibly penis-like or testicles-like that's externally visible.


And it's a known fact that people with the medical condition IK reportedly has, DO have a vagina and uterus, don't have a penis, and sometimes have internal testicles and sometimes don't.

Obviously it's not confirmed that IK has that specific medical condition (because nothing has been confirmed at all, really, since Algeria and the various orgs involved are so shady - which is why the claim IK has XY chromosomes needs to be properly independently tested and publicly confirmed) but we know that it's possible for someone to have a vagina and uterus, have no penis or testicles, become pregnant and give birth, but still have XY chromosomes. A lot of people grow up assuming that they're normal women and only find out they have that condition when they get referred for infertility treatment. (People with that condition are all infertile but they can get pregnant using IVF.)

But it's important to have this debate, because it goes to the heart of what a woman is: is a woman a person who is genetically female (ie XX) or biologically female (ie has a vagina and uterus) - what happens when you have someone who has a vagina and a uterus and can/has given birth, but also has XY chromosomes?

I mean, what sex would you describe people like these three (just picking three at random): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5885995/
www.mdpi.com

A Successful New Case of Twin Pregnancy in a Patient with Swyer Syndrome—An Up-to-Date Review on the Incidence and Outcome of Twin/Multiple Gestations in the Pure 46,XY Gonadal Dysgenesis

Background: The aim of the present study is to report a rare occurrence of a successful twin pregnancy in a woman with pure 46,XY gonadal dysgenesis. Result(s): A patient with Swyer syndrome (pure 46,XY gonadal dysgenesis) presented with a twin pregnancy after in vitro fertilization. Due to...
www.mdpi.com www.mdpi.com



As a GC women I will never, ever accept the existence of pregnant men. That's terrifying to me, because birth and pregnancy are sacred to womanhood.
 
Maybe it’s my eyes then. I’d accept it if IOC had robust testing in place or if there was something else undeniable. I’m not going to not question it though. This is how the men have managed to get through for so long because IOC don’t have robust testing. I’d rather apologise for getting it wrong than accidentally support a man beating a woman.

It will be interesting to see Suwannapheng against Khelif and if there is obvious difference between them. There clearly has been with the previous women he’s fought.
 
@SweetPerdita

And it's a known fact that people with the medical condition IK reportedly has, DO have a vagina and uterus, don't have a penis, and sometimes have internal testicles and sometimes don't.

This is simply untrue. People are either male or female. IK most likely has 5ARD which only affects development of external genitalia. There is no vagina and certainly no uterus. Many of them develop penises during puberty.

They all have internal testes which is why they go through male puberty. Please have a look at Carole Hooven and Emma Hilton on Twitter

ETA people with Swyer syndrome don’t go through male puberty. They are androgen Insensitive. They have zero physical advantage over women with XX chromosomes. And women with sawyer syndrome can only become pregnant with donated eggs and IVF. They don’t produce them.
 
Tofino said:
Maybe it’s my eyes then. I’d accept it if IOC had robust testing in place or if there was something else undeniable. I’m not going to not question it though. This is how the men have managed to get through for so long because IOC don’t have robust testing. I’d rather apologise for getting it wrong than accidentally support a man beating a woman.

It will be interesting to see Suwannapheng against Khelif and if there is obvious difference between them. There clearly has been with the previous women he’s fought.
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Appreciate everything you do Tofino. I'm probably the wank one for saying they might be a woman. But yes, if IOC tests were in place we wouldn't need to try to guess!
 
I dunno now. As far as I can make out, as there’s so much to go over, Suwannapheng was IK’s opponent, who he beat, and was then given IK’s bronze when it was found out IK failed the ‘gender’test. Surely Suwannapheng would have been given the same test? Certainly reads male in most of the photos to me, but a lot of that is the haircut - could be non-binary male presenting? F2M is much more convincing.
I can’t wait till all the gender tit goes out of fashion 🤞🏻

edit - gender test, not drugs!!
 
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Terrible said:
I dunno know. As far as I can make out, as there’s so much to go over, Suwannapheng was IK’s opponent, who he beat, and was then given IK’s bronze when it was found out IK failed the drugs test. Surely Suwannapheng would have been given the same test? Certainly reads male in most of the photos to me, but a lot of that is the haircut - could be non-binary male presenting? F2M is much more convincing.
I can’t wait till all the gender tit goes out of fashion 🤞🏻
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Suwannapheng ended up with silver in world champs because Khelif was disqualified after the semi final (where he beat Suwannapheng). So Suwannapheng ended up in the final.

I think this is why Algeria are claiming conspiracy. Because IBA only tested Khelif after the semi final but before the final. I must admit I don’t know why it got so far in the competition before they tested him.

Not suddenly supporting Algeria and Khelif because I believe he’s male and shouldn’t be in women’s sport full stop, but it is a bit strange to suddenly test someone between semi finals and finals. There might be a valid reason publicised, I’ve not looked it up so far.
 
István Kovács, the European vice president of the World Boxing Organisation, weighed in on the row on Saturday, telling Hungarian press that he had warned the IOC about gender rules in women’s boxing as early as 2022.

“The problem was not with the level of Khelif’s testosterone, because that can be adjusted nowadays, but with the result of the gender test, which clearly revealed that the Algerian boxer is biologically male,” Kovács added in in an interview with Magyar Nemzet.

He claimed a total of five boxers, including Khelif, had been examined by the IBA.

Khelif’s next opponent Anna Luca Hamori is from Hungary, where the national boxing federation is investigating the possibility of a legal challenge over Khelif’s eligibility to fight women at the Games.

www.telegraph.co.uk

‘No doubt’ boxers like Imane Khelif are women, says Olympics president

IOC president Thomas Bach also suggested that the IBA, which gender-tested Khelif and Lin Yu-ting, lacked any credibility
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
 
I’ll try to find it again, but I’m sure I read that Suwannapheng was given Khelif’s bronze, and that there was quite a delay between the test and the results. This could well be different occasions, or misinformation or Russians or something though…
 
IdeletedbutI'mbackagain said:
István Kovács, the European vice president of the World Boxing Organisation, weighed in on the row on Saturday, telling Hungarian press that he had warned the IOC about gender rules in women’s boxing as early as 2022.

“The problem was not with the level of Khelif’s testosterone, because that can be adjusted nowadays, but with the result of the gender test, which clearly revealed that the Algerian boxer is biologically male,” Kovács added in in an interview with Magyar Nemzet.

He claimed a total of five boxers, including Khelif, had been examined by the IBA.

Khelif’s next opponent Anna Luca Hamori is from Hungary, where the national boxing federation is investigating the possibility of a legal challenge over Khelif’s eligibility to fight women at the Games.

www.telegraph.co.uk

‘No doubt’ boxers like Imane Khelif are women, says Olympics president

IOC president Thomas Bach also suggested that the IBA, which gender-tested Khelif and Lin Yu-ting, lacked any credibility
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
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Nice of The Telegraph to add this in right at the bottom of the article where it could be missed. 🤨

I knew this would be underreported / ignored 😒
 
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