UK Literary Luvvies

[soph30]

I can be very basic! Some really do lack total self awareness

In a way though it’s just vapid influencer culture with a more cosmopolitan, sophisticated veneer for women who are too intelligent and educated (or feel they are) to be interested in reality stars etc. Most people don’t really have any hobbies or interests but floating around like Dolly, Panda etc talking about feminism in a few lines, saying books are vital in a few lines (they never delve deeply or incisively into these issues to stay media friendly) writing articulate essays about themselves and their relationships and posting Instagram thirst traps and all their gifted items is a more viable and soulful lifestyle choice than just posting Instagram thirst traps and all their gifted items, and makes them feel interesting
None of the luvvies as far as I know have ever posted one proper hobby or interest that makes them interesting? It’s just vapid culture dressed up as being a sleek but bohemian female. Aware and informed, yet palatable and media friendly

They often miss the intersectionality of these issues too. It’s not their fault they’re all white, privileged and educated but growing up as a woman with societal attitudes is very different when you’re female and disabled, or female and poor, or a woman of colour. It’s all very well to talk about self worth when that’s all society brings you anyway as it’s built for people like you…

 

[Love_hate_small_town]

In a way though it’s just vapid influencer culture with a more cosmopolitan, sophisticated veneer for women who are too intelligent and educated (or feel they are) to be interested in reality stars etc. Most people don’t really have any hobbies or interests but floating around like Dolly, Panda etc talking about feminism in a few lines, saying books are vital in a few lines (they never delve deeply or incisively into these issues to stay media friendly) writing articulate essays about themselves and their relationships and posting Instagram thirst traps and all their gifted items is a more viable and soulful lifestyle choice than just posting Instagram thirst traps and all their gifted items, and makes them feel interesting
None of the luvvies as far as I know have ever posted one proper hobby or interest that makes them interesting? It’s just vapid culture dressed up as being a sleek but bohemian female. Aware and informed, yet palatable and media friendly

They often miss the intersectionality of these issues too. It’s not their fault they’re all white, privileged and educated but growing up as a woman with societal attitudes is very different when you’re female and disabled, or female and poor, or a woman of colour. It’s all very well to talk about self worth when that’s all society brings you anyway as it’s built for people like you…

Great post. Funny about the hobbies too although you do see a few paintings knocking about. A bit of originality would be lovely like Dolly getting really into survival skills or fishing and Pandora buying a metal detector.

 

[soph30]

Great post. Funny about the hobbies too although you do see a few paintings knocking about. A bit of originality would be lovely like Dolly getting really into survival skills or fishing and Pandora buying a metal detector.

Yeah I’m not judging, I spend most of my days scrolling through social media and eating at cafes and watching cat videos and putting pink around feminist quotes and staring at myself in my phone camera etc, but I’m also learning Japanese just for fun amongst other things- I’m taking my exams end of the year. Would be quite inspiring for one of the luvvies to post about something like that instead of the same echo chamber stuff and each others’ books, something to inspire cosmopolitan women to achieve , explore and use their brains rather than just ‘feminism is vital’

 

[cee-bee]

Yeah I’m not judging, I spend most of my days scrolling through social media and eating at cafes and watching cat videos and putting pink around feminist quotes and staring at myself in my phone camera etc, but I’m also learning Japanese just for fun amongst other things- I’m taking my exams end of the year. Would be quite inspiring for one of the luvvies to post about something like that instead of the same echo chamber stuff and each others’ books, something to inspire cosmopolitan women to achieve , explore and use their brains rather than just ‘feminism is vital’

instagram/social media doesn’t really cultivate that though. It’s all about projecting this idealistic screenshot and building an audience based on this. It’s very shallow and superficial.

like learning a language is really commendable, but there isn’t a romantic way to capture the hours of studying and the stress of exams etc, capture the self doubt and worry, and then capture the feeling of pride and achievement.

these are fairly shallow women on a fairly shallow platform who generally talk about trivial things or at best, serious things but in a trivialised way. Dolly’s books for example, are romanticised versions of single hood and friendship. She doesn’t write in-depth serious analysis of the latter.

 

[soph30]

Anyone remember Bella Younger of Deliciously Stella? She spoke about how she got addicted to Instagram after that account and now does generic LL content. She’s pregnant now, good for her

 

[soph30]

Oh lord it’s just a list of luvvies and those with diverse names that have been studiously chosen
(Panda’s book)
Edit- just in case anyone thinks badly of that comment I’m not saying the diverse names aren’t deserving, just that there’s a reason they’ve been added

 

[Mermaid456]

Oh lord it’s just a list of luvvies and those with diverse names that have been studiously chosen
(Panda’s book)
Edit- just in case anyone thinks badly of that comment I’m not saying the diverse names aren’t deserving, just that there’s a reason they’ve been added

what does it mean to edit a book? Does Pandora just collect the stories from the authors and decide what goes in?

 

[4dominoes]

Oh lord it’s just a list of luvvies and those with diverse names that have been studiously chosen
(Panda’s book)
Edit- just in case anyone thinks badly of that comment I’m not saying the diverse names aren’t deserving, just that there’s a reason they’ve been added

I don’t agree with this comment at all? I’m not sure who on there you’re referring to as luvvies other than Elizabeth Day and Dolly Alderton? It actually strikes me as a really well curated list of newcomers who have had huge recent success (Paul Mendez, Caleb Azeumah Nelson), literary heavy hitters who have been around for a while (William Boyd, Ruth Ozeki) and beloved writers of more commercial fiction (Marian Keyes, Nick Hornby). I think it’s a great list to be honest and I find the implication that the diverse authors have only been picked as tokens incredibly offensive as dismissive of their talents.

I also really don’t agree with this threads view that these women are Instagrammers who only talk about shallow things. Most of them came up as journalists. I don’t think fashion, interiors or love and friendship are more ‘shallow’ topics but that they’re often dismissed as such because they tend to be more of interest to women. I also don’t find Dolly’s analysis of female friendship shallow. I’ve said many times I thought Ghosts was rubbish and fiction writing isn’t her strength but she’s written beautifully about female friendship many times - in EIKAL, her columns and journalism, her newsletter etc. The Sentimental in the City podcast was also GREAT at analysing friendships.

Reading this thread makes me feel like these women can’t win and honestly a lot of it seems like they’re being dismissed just because they’re privileged. They totally are, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re not talented and I find these threads much more interesting when people are fairer about these things.

 

[cee-bee]

I don’t agree with this comment at all? I’m not sure who on there you’re referring to as luvvies other than Elizabeth Day and Dolly Alderton? It actually strikes me as a really well curated list of newcomers who have had huge recent success (Paul Mendez, Caleb Azeumah Nelson), literary heavy hitters who have been around for a while (William Boyd, Ruth Ozeki) and beloved writers of more commercial fiction (Marian Keyes, Nick Hornby). I think it’s a great list to be honest and I find the implication that the diverse authors have only been picked as tokens incredibly offensive as dismissive of their talents.

I also really don’t agree with this threads view that these women are Instagrammers who only talk about shallow things. Most of them came up as journalists. I don’t think fashion, interiors or love and friendship are more ‘shallow’ topics but that they’re often dismissed as such because they tend to be more of interest to women. I also don’t find Dolly’s analysis of female friendship shallow. I’ve said many times I thought Ghosts was rubbish and fiction writing isn’t her strength but she’s written beautifully about female friendship many times - in EIKAL, her columns and journalism, her newsletter etc. The Sentimental in the City podcast was also GREAT at analysing friendships.

Reading this thread makes me feel like these women can’t win and honestly a lot of it seems like they’re being dismissed just because they’re privileged. They totally are, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re not talented and I find these threads much more interesting when people are fairer about these things.

Yeh a lot of them came up as journalists, but how is that relevant? It’s a broad spectrum, it doesn’t make someone a good writer, or talented. A gossip columnist for the daily Mail isn’t on the same level as an investigative journalist writing for the times, but they are both journalists.

sorry but I disagree about Dolly being particularly talented or astute when it comes to social commentary. I don’t find her commentary on female friendship to be particularly insightful or original. What does writing beautifully mean to you? Because Dolly says nice things about female friendship but that doesn’t mean she’s written in-depth, thought provoking items of substance. I’ve posted my thoughts on her writing in depth on this thread, so I don’t think it’s fair to say I’m dismissing her on the basis of privilege, because I’m able to back up my takes on her writing. Others in this thread have also written in defence of dolly’s socia observations.

if you enjoy Dolly’s writing/podcasts/TV shows then…. Fine. I enjoyed the TV show for what it was too. But hard hitting, thought provoking, writing it is not (in my opinion, anyway). In fact I think a lot of the time Dolly is way off the mark in her observations because of her lack of scope and lack of self awareness (see my earlier comments).

 

[soph30]

I don’t agree with this comment at all? I’m not sure who on there you’re referring to as luvvies other than Elizabeth Day and Dolly Alderton? It actually strikes me as a really well curated list of newcomers who have had huge recent success (Paul Mendez, Caleb Azeumah Nelson), literary heavy hitters who have been around for a while (William Boyd, Ruth Ozeki) and beloved writers of more commercial fiction (Marian Keyes, Nick Hornby). I think it’s a great list to be honest and I find the implication that the diverse authors have only been picked as tokens incredibly offensive as dismissive of their talents.

I also really don’t agree with this threads view that these women are Instagrammers who only talk about shallow things. Most of them came up as journalists. I don’t think fashion, interiors or love and friendship are more ‘shallow’ topics but that they’re often dismissed as such because they tend to be more of interest to women. I also don’t find Dolly’s analysis of female friendship shallow. I’ve said many times I thought Ghosts was rubbish and fiction writing isn’t her strength but she’s written beautifully about female friendship many times - in EIKAL, her columns and journalism, her newsletter etc. The Sentimental in the City podcast was also GREAT at analysing friendships.

Reading this thread makes me feel like these women can’t win and honestly a lot of it seems like they’re being dismissed just because they’re privileged. They totally are, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re not talented and I find these threads much more interesting when people are fairer about these things.

Opinions always welcome, that’s how we encourage diverse discussion and question what we’re consuming from different perspectives
I didn’t say the more diverse authors weren’t talented, I’ve read some of them myself and they’re great, I said the fact they’re in such volume feels a bit tokenistic to me. Panda’s not a voracious reader who seeks out literature from all perspectives and I bet the PR person who advises her what to put in the book isn’t either.
I think some of the luvvies are talented but come on, they only have such a platform because of their looks and privilege and connections. Make one of them working class or disabled or strikingly unattractive and see how they’re marketed (not all of those things are perjoratives btw, just barriers). I’m not counting someone genuinely talented like Marian Keyes.

 

[jenmarks]

I don’t agree with this comment at all? I’m not sure who on there you’re referring to as luvvies other than Elizabeth Day and Dolly Alderton? It actually strikes me as a really well curated list of newcomers who have had huge recent success (Paul Mendez, Caleb Azeumah Nelson), literary heavy hitters who have been around for a while (William Boyd, Ruth Ozeki) and beloved writers of more commercial fiction (Marian Keyes, Nick Hornby). I think it’s a great list to be honest and I find the implication that the diverse authors have only been picked as tokens incredibly offensive as dismissive of their talents.

I also really don’t agree with this threads view that these women are Instagrammers who only talk about shallow things. Most of them came up as journalists. I don’t think fashion, interiors or love and friendship are more ‘shallow’ topics but that they’re often dismissed as such because they tend to be more of interest to women. I also don’t find Dolly’s analysis of female friendship shallow. I’ve said many times I thought Ghosts was rubbish and fiction writing isn’t her strength but she’s written beautifully about female friendship many times - in EIKAL, her columns and journalism, her newsletter etc. The Sentimental in the City podcast was also GREAT at analysing friendships.

Reading this thread makes me feel like these women can’t win and honestly a lot of it seems like they’re being dismissed just because they’re privileged. They totally are, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re not talented and I find these threads much more interesting when people are fairer about these things.

Oh come on, seriously?!? This is a cash/exposure grab by Pandora!!? If you can't see that, you need to get your eyes tested asap!

 

[soph30]

@domino for the record you seem extremely well read and intelligent! I’d like to hear your opinions on a podcast instead of Dolly saying the same old shite again, but we’ll never get to hear from you outside Tattle. That’s our point, not that we dislike these women as individuals, just their echo chamber- which is why the thread groups them all together

Like, I bet Panda hasn’t even read all those authors you named off the top of your head, and they’re on her list

 

[Nosycrow]

Opinions always welcome, that’s how we encourage diverse discussion and question what we’re consuming from different perspectives
I didn’t say the more diverse authors weren’t talented, I’ve read some of them myself and they’re great, I said the fact they’re in such volume feels a bit tokenistic to me. Panda’s not a voracious reader who seeks out literature from all perspectives and I bet the PR person who advises her what to put in the book isn’t either.
I think some of the luvvies are talented but come on, they only have such a platform because of their looks and privilege and connections. Make one of them working class or disabled or strikingly unattractive and see how they’re marketed (not all of those things are perjoratives btw, just barriers). I’m not counting someone genuinely talented like Marian Keyes.

Marian Keyes used to be talented, but is now an out and out luvvie dose whose books are mostly based on her own life/family or whatever viral Twitter topic de jour. Sad to see her succumb to the narc bullshit.

 

[4dominoes]

Oh come on, seriously?!? This is a cash/exposure grab by Pandora!!? If you can't see that, you need to get your eyes tested asap!

I’m not commenting on the book. I’m commenting on the authors.

Opinions always welcome, that’s how we encourage diverse discussion and question what we’re consuming from different perspectives
I didn’t say the more diverse authors weren’t talented, I’ve read some of them myself and they’re great, I said the fact they’re in such volume feels a bit tokenistic to me. Panda’s not a voracious reader who seeks out literature from all perspectives and I bet the PR person who advises her what to put in the book isn’t either.
I think some of the luvvies are talented but come on, they only have such a platform because of their looks and privilege and connections. Make one of them working class or disabled or strikingly unattractive and see how they’re marketed (not all of those things are perjoratives btw, just barriers). I’m not counting someone genuinely talented like Marian Keyes.

I still don’t get where you’re coming from. Elizabeth Day and Dolly Alderton are the anomalies on this list as I see it and a quick scan of Pandora’s insta shows she is actually a voracious reader who seeks out literature from all perspectives? Many of the authors on this list show up in her book stacks. There’s a lot of working class authors on that list, lots of different races, Naoise Dolan talks a lot about being neurodivergent. I can’t comment on what most of them look like but I stand by thinking it’s a great list of voices who have a lot to offer in the current literary landscape.

 

[J2607]

Would add to this list, as she's had a book out, Grace Campbell. Daughter of Alistair Campbell. Supposed comedian who is pals with some of the aforementioned luvvies. She also felt the need to read the part of her book where she gets fingered to her dad and post it on her Instagram story, because she's so WhAcKy.

 

[BanditHealer]

Would add to this list, as she's had a book out, Grace Campbell. Daughter of Alistair Campbell. Supposed comedian who is pals with some of the aforementioned luvvies. She also felt the need to read the part of her book where she gets fingered to her dad and post it on her Instagram story, because she's so WhAcKy.

Not me reading this as fingered by her dad and gasping.

 

[soph30]

Panda reads diverse books to cultivate her image. Ask her how many diverse books she’d read six years ago She also doesn’t come across as intelligent.
I think Dolly comes across as intelligent to be fair.

 

[jenmarks]

Who knew

I’m not commenting on the book. I’m commenting on the authors.
I still don’t get where you’re coming from. Elizabeth Day and Dolly Alderton are the anomalies on this list as I see it and a quick scan of Pandora’s insta shows she is actually a voracious reader who seeks out literature from all perspectives? Many of the authors on this list show up in her book stacks. There’s a lot of working class authors on that list, lots of different races, Naoise Dolan talks a lot about being neurodivergent. I can’t comment on what most of them look like but I stand by thinking it’s a great list of voices who have a lot to offer in the current literary landscape.

Welcome to Tattle, Pandora. Shouldn't you be busy promoting your book though?!

 

[soph30]

@jenmarks oh come on, Domino can have an opinion. It’s not Pandora, Pandora wouldn’t know what neurodivergent was although she’s soooo socially aware

 

[Spilttea]

It’s all lip service to appear diverse and inclusive, one look at any of the luvvies social media, press and the odd candid pic shows you that very few if any of them step outside of their pampered lifestyles to embody the image they like to cultivate.