Southport Attacks and Aftermath #5

[CabalofBolorneaise]

I think we should remember the context. This happened weeks into the first Labour government in 14 years. Some of the new ministers had never held a ministerial role, and had only experienced opposition, or student politics with the “safe space” concept. I honestly believe they panicked and tried to suppress the incident which very quickly spiralled out of control when they discovered that a proportion of the country don’t believe in the safe space philosophy.

I think even with the context there is a difference between the insisting there are no links and “there is no evidence of a link yet and even if there does turn out to be one is it’s unacceptable to target innocent Muslims who are not to blame” - and as I say neither of those were applied to the incel theory, people were free to discuss that and discuss him being an autistic incel (which doesn’t fit with student politics safe space either as it’s ableism and villainising the disabled) without being called out.

 

[Lars Guinard]

All I say is the police grapevine has in my experience been one of the most efficient set of jungle drums. It’s a very stressful job, people chat, but are experienced enough not to mention anything to compromise the trial.

The trial is due in January. The government can’t control what comes out. Unless they seek to have part of it held in secret. And they wouldn’t do that. Would they?

Is there anything you can say from what you know? Or your honest opinion of how things will play out?

 

[NeverEnough]

Is there anything you can say from what you know? Or your honest opinion of how things will play out?

Absolutely nothing I can say. I don’t know anything more than anyone else.

 

[bananabutter]

I think the fact it has even been announced that there are potential links is very telling, after the blanket insistence from so many early on that there were no links at all.

The riots were absolutely awful and were the far right seeking to sew divide and blame innocent people for an attack they had nothing to do with. Nobody is saying they weren’t.

But the answer to that isn’t to resort to lying by saying there were no links whatsoever and accusing anyone talking about potential links as being as bad as the rioters. It wasn’t speculation people and the government had a problem with because anyone talking about the Incel theory wasn’t told there was no evidence it’s all speculation, be quiet.

I hate to agree with a Tory but they’re right - if it turns out it was covered up it will have ramifications both for trust in the police and in terms of the far right absolutely crowing from the roof tops “we were RIGHT and they SILENCED us!” A massive own goal all round.

Especially when they went so far in the other direction to push the narrative that he was “a Welsh choir boy Christian.”

This has the potential to be massive when it goes to trial and cause even greater civil unrest. The government seriously underestimates how strong public opinion is over this.

 

[bluefoot]

Who’s they? I’d like to see some evidence the ‘government’ pushed a Welsh choir boy narrative tbh

 

[jackolantern]

It would have been far more sensible to say we know nothing but of course there's a possibility of any motive at this stage, than be adamant race/religion had nothing to do with it, then look like absolute melts when it clearly has. Everyone knew the chance was very high and when it's such an emotionally charged topic, people are going to be even more angry when they feel they've been deceived. While the intention may not be to protect a certain demographic over another, it's only natural that it will seem that way under that circumstance. It's been horribly handled.

 

[RaveChampion]

If there is a conspiracy the only one I can see is one of generalised incompetence/promotion beyond ability TBH. The "Peter Principle" if you like.
It's becoming endemic in the UK since around 2005 in various institutions. It even seems to be rewarded in some cases.
It's permeated every sphere of public life to the point people even stop noticing or querying it.
Hence the constant tiresome and frankly insulting mantra of "lessons will be learned".
They never really are though.
It's also Apolitical.
Despite what some may say.
The current intellectual calibre of many politicians is shocking.

Naturally this is just my opinion though and I've been wrong before.

 

[monga]

Who’s they? I’d like to see some evidence the ‘government’ pushed a Welsh choir boy narrative tbh

Practically every media source was running the same story!

 

[Troutpout]

Who’s they? I’d like to see some evidence the ‘government’ pushed a Welsh choir boy narrative tbh

Were you living under a rock for the few weeks after the murders of those poor little girls? It was rammed down our throats every day.

 

[bluefoot]

Not by the ‘government’ though. They hardly control the UK press

 

[monga]

Yes they do

 

[bluefoot]

That’s quite enough tinfoil hattery for me today thanks

 

[monga]

Surely we all remember the terrible pandemic that was played out on every news outlet only to disappear when the gov called time

 

[Lars Guinard]

Not by the ‘government’ though. They hardly control the UK press

Seems the neighbours said he was 'quiet and introverted'.
Which seems true.
Axel was a choirboy.
This seems true.

With little by way of pictures of him looking like an adult and the police wanting to talk to witnesses etc
Also, the defence and prosecution both insisted on allowing the police to set up safety/protection for Axel's family in the immediate aftermath.
(They had been removed to safety)

--

It was Keir Starmer's account

 

[monga]

I though the neighbours never laid eyes on him the whole time he lived there?

 

[pommynoir]

Read that downing st confirmed that KS didn’t represent the family at all, where do these rumours come from.

 

[monga]

Read that downing st confirmed that KS didn’t represent the family at all, where do these rumours come from.

Maybe from the fact he represented someone connected to the Rwandan genocide ?

 

[pommynoir]

Maybe from the fact he represented someone connected to the Rwandan genocide ?

Is that actually confirmed or just a rumour too?

 

[monga]

Is that actually confirmed or just a rumour too?

Rwandan suspects in the UK - Rwanda Justice for Genocide

Rwandan suspects in the UK The five Rwandan genocide suspects, who have now been living freely in the UK for nearly 25 years, are occasionally featured in media reports, but their cases are little known, as are the very crimes they are alleged to have committed in 1994. This section…

rwandajustice4genocide.org.uk

 

[Lars Guinard]

View attachment 3276586 q

Rwandan suspects in the UK - Rwanda Justice for Genocide

Rwandan suspects in the UK The five Rwandan genocide suspects, who have now been living freely in the UK for nearly 25 years, are occasionally featured in media reports, but their cases are little known, as are the very crimes they are alleged to have committed in 1994. This section…

rwandajustice4genocide.org.uk

So are the people Starmer represented connected to this case? What is the Starmer link?
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I though the neighbours never laid eyes on him the whole time he lived there?

Apparently they saw him enough to say he was 'quiet and introverted' and also rarely left the house

A 17/18 year old ND lad, who was quiet and obsessed with his mum I read. Maybe that was a motive? Lots of information to build a picture of who Axel was...he could be struggling with his sexuality for all we know?