Sir Keir Starmer

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Dinate said:
You can't honestly compare an individual donating £50 to Labour with Alli's donations.

I think that you are being deliberately obtuse as to the influence that Lord Alli clearly has and why it is problematic.

Regarding the stay in the flat, he said specifically that they moved to the flat to give his son a quiet place to study. This was the sole reason he gave for accepting the hospitality when being asked specifically why they had stayed there. It wasn't a soundbite; it was an explanation. As I said, if it was, as it appears, for general convenience: why not just say so?

Again, I reiterate, good governance is all about being above reproach. It's the same principle that underpins the justice system: i.e. justice must not only be done, but it must be seen to be done. The very fact that many people, including those who generally support Labour, are critical of this situation, shows that something has gone wrong. Following the letter of the law isn't always good enough.
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There are individuals out there donating more than £50. At one point 25% of tory donations were coming from ten people. Is this something you would also seek to stop?

It wasn't the sole reason he gave was it? He also said the situation was hard for his daughter, and I can imagine having the press camped outside your door 24/7 would be.
 
Personally, I think that the big problem Starmer has, is that he and his government don't have a real narrative. The timing of the election and the budget have also been an issue. Right now we are in a state of limbo, and the two things filling the vacuum are the WFA and donations.

Tony Blair got away with real corruption early on in his premiership when he intervened to give Formula One an exemption from the ban on tobacco advertising as a direct result of a meeting with Bernie Ecclestone. There was also the 'cash for access' scandal involving Derek Draper.

These things happen all the time. We know that. It's just surprising and disappointing when we see the new government making the same mistakes that have drawn condemnation previously. For example, how could anyone think that it was okay to advertise an opportunity to meet Jonathan Reynolds for a 'meeting with of minds'? That has now been cancelled, but it should never have even been contemplated. It's the very definition of 'cash for access'.

There seems to be be a great deal of political naivety at play here in the government's operations and messaging.
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bluefoot said:
Cool. Enjoy your Reform government
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People can criticise Starmer without supporting the Tories or Reform. No individual is beyond reproach. Even generally decent people (if one wants to describe Starmer as that) can make mistakes.

It isn't all or nothing. I think most of us on this thread are Labour supporters. That doesn't mean we have to blindly accept everything that the individuals in the party say or do.
 
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I’m not disappointed by Starmer, because I didn’t expect anything different from him.
The writing has been on the wall for a long time as to the sort of person he is, and the government he’s leading.

This Labour Party are just red Tory’s.
They are every bit as grasping and self serving as the previous lot.
What a bleeping shame!
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Also, bought and paid for by Israel. Shameful!
 
Looks like my "They're all the same"/"paid for by Israel" bingo card is filling up quickly.

It's worth pointing out that Lord Alli wasn't appointed a Lord by Starmer - he's long been a significant Labour supporter. Best to criticise how the political system works rather than ridiculously accusing Starmer doing a "Johnson" in filling his boots etc., though he's been naive to not think of the optics and how he'd be hounded by the Tory media lapdogs over what amounts to not much.
 
bluefoot said:
It’s not about whether you support Reform or not but the way the wind is blowing. If you can’t see the risk then good luck to you
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So I can't criticise Starmer because of the way the wind is blowing? It's precisely because of the way the wind is blowing that it is so frustrating that Starmer has so comprehensively blown any goodwill he had when he was elected.

I don't want the Tories back in power and a few weeks ago, we could be forgiven for thinking that there was a possibility of at least 2 terms for this government. But Starmer has squandered all that political capital, and for what? It might not seem important now, but once people have a negative impression of you, it's next to impossible to reverse it. Coupled with all the really difficult decisions that the government will have to make over the next months and years, it's a really unnecessarily poor start.

That's a crying shame and I'm not going to pretend otherwise, particularly in a thread dedicated to Starmer.
 
There was never going to be more than one term for Labour. Their mistake is not appreciating that the right wing press would be after then from day 1. I can't see anything to be up in arms re what's going on, but alas some of the electorate seem to be impressionable considering how they're aiding and abetting a mountain being made out of a molehill.
 
bubbadabut said:
I have to admit, I'm feeling like a bit of a chump. I actually thought Keir was going to be a reliable PM. In the way that a large, solid oak cabinet is reliable. Sturdy, kind of boring and outdated, but it does the job you need it to do.

With a change of government, I was really hoping for an end to all the sleaze and backhanders.

They really are all the bleeping same, aren't they?
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Quite.

Something I've been saying all along.

There really is nothing 'grown up' about this Labour Government, despite the Guardianista left trying to tell us otherwise.

They act like spoilt kids in a free sweet shop, with Lord Alli as the shop owner. Completely oblivious to how this looks to those that are struggling to make ends meet, heat their homes and put food on the table. Especially when those 'freebies' are given free of tax and in excess of what many people earn in a year.

It is great when those responsible are still getting their second homes heating bills paid for by us. Including some of those they robbed the WFP from.

Some of those on the left need to stop with the BS of continually deflecting everything onto the Tories. The Tories were tit, so are this Labour Government. So take your heads out of your arse and understand Labour are subject to the same scrutiny that the previous Tory one was.

Whether you like that, or not is irrelevant.

The Tories are not responsible for Kier, Angela, Rachel and the others being a bunch of greedy shits, having their snout in the Lord Alli trough.

As the previous FM said, they really are as bad as each other.
 
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So Kier is either a closeted gay having an affair with a peer who lends him lavish apartments or an ageing lothario who is putting it about whilst handing out the super injunctions?

It's like a kids TV show -

Mild mannered janitor of Britain by day and at night Hong Kong Suey (Number One super inpregnator)?
 
I hate to put a downer on all of this. But as you get older you realize that democracy is just an illusion. We're all essentially just tax payers. I'm cool with it, I have no axe to grind. But understand the Political and Media class are two sides of the same coin, just brain-washing us.

As a society we've decided upon capitalism. Fine. But there's only a finite amount of cash to go around. It all gets a bit messy when there is a massive wealth gap. I think most reasonable people accept that there will be rich people and poor people. But when 10 percent hold 90 percent of the wealth it's clear the system has failed.

I don't want to keep banging on about it, but Kier is a technocrat, pure and simple. The West is in MASSIVE decline and The East is rising. That's just how it is. There's nothing anyone can do about it ... well, apart from constructing perpetual wars, but that's a whole 'nother issue.
 
HelloStereo said:
That's not the point I was making at all.

The Tories used to give their pals contracts using public money. This is not the same as receiving concert tickets from someone. The two are not comparable.
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Are you really that naive to think that accepting freebies from someone does not warrant in returning favours in the future? Do you seriously think that whoever offers freebies to Starmer (n his cabinet members) did that out of their kind heart with no expectation that favours are to be returned? Did the Tories give their pals contracts without accepting freebies/favours in the first place previously? It all just stinks of bribery and corruption regardless of political parties. The other side note is Starmer is rich enough to afford most if not all of these freebies. Just becoz it's not illegal in the eyes of law in this country does not mean morally it's right. In some other countries with a different set of laws, the cheapskate would be in jail now.
 
IngressUK said:
Quite.

Something I've been saying all along.

There really is nothing 'grown up' about this Labour Government, despite the Guardianista left trying to tell us otherwise.

They act like spoilt kids in a free sweet shop, with Lord Alli as the shop owner. Completely oblivious to how this looks to those that are struggling to make ends meet, heat their homes and put food on the table. Especially when those 'freebies' are given free of tax and in excess of what many people earn in a year.

It is great when those responsible are still getting their second homes heating bills paid for by us. Including some of those they robbed the WFP from.

Some of those on the left need to stop with the BS of continually deflecting everything onto the Tories. The Tories were tit, so are this Labour Government. So take your heads out of your arse and understand Labour are subject to the same scrutiny that the previous Tory one was.

Whether you like that, or not is irrelevant.

The Tories are not responsible for Kier, Angela, Rachel and the others being a bunch of greedy shits, having their snout in the Lord Alli trough.

As the previous FM said, they really are as bad as each other.
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meh the “Guardianista Left” are sick of him too. look at the comments from yesterday (you have to scroll all the way down to find them).

https://www.12ft.io/https://www.the...ed-error-machine-squandered-electoral-capital

edit: ffs tattle mashing the link means you can’t see the comments, you’ll have to find the original story directly on the guardian website
 
I think there are a great many good people in the Labour party. Genuine people who want the world and the UK to be a better place.

Those people are not in the cabinet. The cabinet people are letting down the grassroots of the party and many of us who have voted for them.

But also to say "Oh but the level of Tory corruption" and " The COVID contracts..."

The Tories had been in charge for how many years versus Labour's weeks. Also give Labour a pandemic and let's see how this cabinet behaves. At the moment yes, it's like grapes vs. watermelons but give them the same issues and time? I wouldn't bet on a better sleaze ratio. Power corrupts is a cliché but there's a reason...
 
omg1 said:
Are you really that naive to think that accepting freebies from someone does not warrant in returning favours in the future? Do you seriously think that whoever offers freebies to Starmer (n his cabinet members) did that out of their kind heart with no expectation that favours are to be returned? Did the Tories give their pals contracts without accepting freebies/favours in the first place previously? It all just stinks of bribery and corruption regardless of political parties. The other side note is Starmer is rich enough to afford most if not all of these freebies. Just becoz it's not illegal in the eyes of law in this country does not mean morally it's right. In some other countries with a different set of laws, the cheapskate would be in jail now.
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Do you know who this person is? He's been a Labour peer for decades now and I can't think of what he has influenced so far.
 
bluefoot said:
I agree 💯, let’s get Nigel Farage and his gang of brave warriors to drain the swamp next time
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Is this going to be your response every time anyone criticises the main two parties? Because it's a bit boring. Clearly no one on here wants that either.

I just think as soon as ANYONE gets their nose in the trough the same story unfolds. Yes including Nigel!
 
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Are you trying to police this thread and moderate me? Have you consider that my views have been swayed by the intelligent and constructive debate on here? What about my freedom of speech and human rights? Don’t be like Keir!
 
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