Secret Celebrity Gossip #14

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bubbletea123 said:
Melanie was apparently having an affair with Trump Tower head of security and even lived with him and was going to divorce Donnie. Then he became president.
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Yeah I said this in another post that I heard she was going for a divorce until he got the presidency, and she was apparently sobbing when he did, no wonder, she bloody couldn’t divorce him after that!
 
I had the same internal debate when I watched the documentary. I'm talking about the girls who were in their early 20s here. One of them, who if you've watched you'll know who I mean but I don't want to start naming them, romanticised how she'd moved to New York with nothing and after two weeks was running out of money. One of Epstein's girls got talking to her and basically told her about this great man who could take care of her and would give her a great life etc. Which made me think about the fact that we talk about yacht girls quite a lot on here and all the z listers who go to Cannes and Dubai to have sex (and possibly get degraded) for money. Where is the line drawn? Because we don't ever really have much sympathy for those girls. If someone is having sex for a new handbag or an easy life then I really don't feel sorry for them, there are some sex workers who do it to feed their family and keep a roof over their heads. When I heard that girl in the documentary I wondered, why didn't she just get a job? She wanted an easy way of life and there's no getting round that. I'm not saying what went on to happen to her wasn't awful, I just felt a couple of the girls had started off by appearing quite entitled and I don't think it makes me a monster to say I don't feel the level of sympathy for the older girls. They knew about life and how the the world works. The younger girls were a different story, they broke my heart. Some of them still seemed so damaged. I just wanted to hug them.
 
Ginger_roots said:
I had the same internal debate when I watched the documentary. I'm talking about the girls who were in their early 20s here. One of them, who if you've watched you'll know who I mean but I don't want to start naming them, romanticised how she'd moved to New York with nothing and after two weeks was running out of money. One of Epstein's girls got talking to her and basically told her about this great man who could take care of her and would give her a great life etc. Which made me think about the fact that we talk about yacht girls quite a lot on here and all the z listers who go to Cannes and Dubai to have sex (and possibly get degraded) for money. Where is the line drawn? Because we don't ever really have much sympathy for those girls. If someone is having sex for a new handbag or an easy life then I really don't feel sorry for them, there are some sex workers who do it to feed their family and keep a roof over their heads. When I heard that girl in the documentary I wondered, why didn't she just get a job? She wanted an easy way of life and there's no getting round that. I'm not saying what went on to happen to her wasn't awful, I just felt a couple of the girls had started off by appearing quite entitled and I don't think it makes me a monster to say I don't feel the level of sympathy for the older girls. They knew about life and how the the world works. The younger girls were a different story, they broke my heart. Some of them still seemed so damaged. I just wanted to hug them.
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Your so right and that's why the law differentiates between children and adults by age. Children cannot process sex emotionally mentally physically in the same way as adults. They are not equipped to process what is going on or deal with the repercussions of sexual encounters. They are vulnerable in their understanding,development and ability to stop themselves being exploited

So the law has to draw the line and classify an age of an adult. It deems the adult can quantify their thought processes to such an extent they will not be exploited and can make decisions themselves. For me the lines become blurred because some adults especially those with difficult childhoods are vulnerable and are open to exploitation.

In reality I would say that JE prayed on children as well as more vulnerable adults.
 
Yes, age is just a number. There are women in their 20s who are very vulnerable. Expert groomers will look for those who had difficult childhoods, little or no contact with family, existing substance abuse issues,etc. They want women who will be easy to isolate and make dependent on them. Some of those women will seem very streetwise to an outside observer.
 
The other thing that occurred to me about the Epstein programme is that many times young girls had to go and give a massage, and were training to be masseurs. Then other services were expected of them - something that unfortunately a lot of masseurs must find that this happens from time to time? It doesn’t make it right or acceptable obviously and they should of course not been abused or exploited in that way. Surely a trained masseur should be at least 18 anyway?
 
HowlOwl said:
The other thing that occurred to me about the Epstein programme is that many times young girls had to go and give a massage, and were training to be masseurs. Then other services were expected of them - something that unfortunately a lot of masseurs must find that this happens from time to time? It doesn’t make it right or acceptable obviously and they should of course not been abused or exploited in that way. Surely a trained masseur should be at least 18 anyway?
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I dunno maybe it's like here where they could be training at 16 or 17. I was dumbfounded by it to be honest I just couldnt believe it was allowed to go on for so long and the attorney general should be jailed as should maxwell !
 
AngryBird101 said:
I do know what it is because I was an escort for god sake! The people I worked for were charged yet none of us were abused!

You are ignoring what I’ve said, be disgusted all you like but I’ve emphasised what I mean over and over and yet you see what you want to see.

Some were victims but I don’t believe they all were.


Sexual exploitation is seen as someone making money from hookers, that’s what agencies do but it’s not abuse if you are legal and consent!

Anyway I’m sick of saying my piece over and over and being ignored so I’m leaving this here.
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Shut up you are clueless. Absolutely clueless. Escorting is NOT the same as being trafficked although many trafficked women can end up in escorting/prostitution as a result. You may have been an escort yourself but that doesn’t make you an expert when it comes to trafficking.

Melmoo said:
Sorry I just caught up on a few posts.. I completely agree you CAN be a victim at at any age definitely. But I just saw a few people jumping on angry bird but for some of the girls in the documentary unfortunately his actions with them was not illegal.

The law HAS to draw the line somewhere or we would never get anywhere in terms of legal prosecutions etc.
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Rape is illegal no matter the age and I don’t doubt he raped those women. Giving them money and nice things doesn’t suddenly make it not rape! They were coerced. He was a very manipulative and charismatic man.

Adults can be manipulated and abused, they may not be a susceptible to it as children but they can still be targeted especially if they were vulnerable or had had a difficult upbringing. I have sympathy for every woman and girl who ever came into contact with him and his creepy little rich friends. These were women and girls who had nothing, had never had anything, and now were suddenly offered the world before realising the things they’d be subjected to do for that. They were all done over by him in some way. The money he gave them was pennies to him and he had plenty of it so could use as many women and girls as he liked. Nasty manipulative awful man can’t stand to see people defending him even slightly.
 
Bitofthebubbly said:
Shut up you are clueless. Absolutely clueless. Escorting is NOT the same as being trafficked although many trafficked women can end up in escorting/prostitution as a result. You may have been an escort yourself but that doesn’t make you an expert when it comes to trafficking.


Rape is illegal no matter the age and I don’t doubt he raped those women. Giving them money and nice things doesn’t suddenly make it not rape! They were coerced. He was a very manipulative and charismatic man.

Adults can be manipulated and abused, they may not be a susceptible to it as children but they can still be targeted especially if they were vulnerable or had had a difficult upbringing. I have sympathy for every woman and girl who ever came into contact with him and his creepy little rich friends. These were women and girls who had nothing, had never had anything, and now were suddenly offered the world before realising the things they’d be subjected to do for that. They were all done over by him in some way. The money he gave them was pennies to him and he had plenty of it so could use as many women and girls as he liked. Nasty manipulative awful man can’t stand to see people defending him even slightly.
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I haven't defended him you haven't even read my post properly.
 
Melmoo said:
I haven't defended him you haven't even read my post properly.
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Sorry it wasn’t just directed at you but anyone implying his victims aren’t really victims. I quoted your post as you said his actions were not Illegal and I wanted to point out that if he raped those women, which imo he and/or his mates did, then it was definitely illegal no matter their age. Then I went on a bit of a rant which wasn’t entirely aimed at you so apologies if you felt attacked.
 
Bitofthebubbly said:
Can we stop the victim blaming? Being over 16 doesn’t mean you’re suddenly immune to being groomed and exploited, which is exactly what happened to every single one of those girls. I’m quite disgusted at the turn this conversation has taken. People are almost excusing Epstein’s behaviour because the girls went back to him? Epstein was a scumbag who used his money and power to exploit hundreds of women and girls all over the world. Just because they looked happy in a couple of pics doesn’t mean anything. It’s called grooming for a reason and he preyed on girls from disadvantaged backgrounds which adds to their vulnerability. Sent people round high schools to ‘recruit’ them ffs. The first time they went to his place they didn’t know what to expect, he hired private investigators to threaten and stalk his victims if they spoke out. Being of a certain age doesn’t make you immune from certain types of abuse, r-kelly basically kept women prisoner in his mansion for years, they were mostly over 18 so technically adults Although the grooming started sooner, the parents couldn’t do tit to help them and he used this to his advantage. Heck, there was even one women speaking out on the r-kelly documentary who was older and even she suffered at his hands.

To say how can 17 year olds claim abuse because they went back to him just shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation these girls found themselves in. He was a powerful, manipulative rich man who could talk the talk AND walk the walk. He tricked teenage girls into thinking he loved them and he going to marry them so he could sexually exploit and abuse them and I can’t sit here and read comments implying they’re not really victims and not say anything, what’s been said about these victims is truly shameful.
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Exactly, 17 year olds are still children in my eyes, Girls are not fitted with some magic switch which means on their 16 birthday they all of a sudden become capable of understanding situations and making sound decisions, any kind of sexual relations between a young girl and much older guy are extremely questionable especially when there’s money involved and an extreme imbalance of power, it’s exploitative and disgusting
 
Bitofthebubbly said:
Sorry it wasn’t just directed at you but anyone implying his victims aren’t really victims. I quoted your post as you said his actions were not Illegal and I wanted to point out that if he raped, which there’s a huge chance he or his mates did. them then it was definitely illegal no matter their age. Then I went on a bit of a rant which wasn’t entirely aimed at you so apologies if you felt attacked.
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It's okay I dont feel attacked and my post inferred more to how the LAW sees things . I'm sure we ate all in agreement that a very bad person exploited both children and adults some vulnerable some perhaps not so.

Rape is about consensual sex in that time period. With regard to did he exploit them and groom them and humiliate them. Yes to all of that but in a LOT of those adult cases rape would be difficult to prove. You can file a rape case retrospectively but if the judge finds that when intercourse took place it was consensual between the two adults it isnt rape. It's a very complex issue and of course highly emotive not everyone agrees but we are adults here (hopefully) and am sure can take part in healthy debate.

I admire angry bird for sharing her story and telling us her views. Because you disagree no need to tell her to shut up. Although I'm sure she doesn't need me to defend her I just find that when someone shares their experiences we should be open and receptive ti their thoughts and opinions having been through these things themselves.
 
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