MissTeddy
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And also the killer of Sabina Nessa hid in his cell rather than face sentencing.
Real Life Crime and Murder #15
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And also the killer of Sabina Nessa hid in his cell rather than face sentencing.
thegirlscout
VIP Member
I haven’t followed the case closely but I’ve read that she wanted a family of her own (apologies if this is wrong or has been debunked). Do you think that’s why she killed and harmed those babies, because they represented what she didn’t have?
The talk about her not having a boyfriend, do you think it could be due to asexuality?
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Whilst I agree they should be at the sentencing how are the prison officers realistically going to get them up in the dock? Forcefully drag them? This country has too many do gooders and anything like that wouldn’t happen.The vile coward who raped and murdered Zara Aleena also refused to come up for the sentencing. There is a petition to get the law on this changed.
Archived Petition: Introduce new laws to force offenders to be present in court for sentencing
Families are currently being deprived the opportunity of gaining full closure because offenders can choose not to appear in court for sentencing.petition.parliament.uk
Dollylovesshoes
VIP Member
This case seems to be getting deeper,poor little girl
https://www.12ft.io/https://www.dai...ra-Sharif-surrey-council-Woking-Pakistan.html
HaloGirl
VIP Member
There has been that theory put forward but also the fact that she wanted attention from the married registrar she may or may not have been having an affair with? There does not seem to be one clear motive at this stage.
The law needs to be changed in order for criminals to be at sentencing. It’s crazy they can sit in their cells without facing the families. There have been too many cases recently.
I’m sorry but… HUH?!
Bread
VIP Member
They have to go into court whether they like it or not, so I don't see why this is any different.
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You know, you're so right. Ceebee and the others with their years of experience and knowledge were convincing me, but your erudite, professional and intellectual argument swung me the other way. Thanks for that.
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You know, you're so right. Ceebee and the others with their years of experience and knowledge were convincing me, but your erudite, professional and intellectual argument swung me the other way. Thanks for that.
GeminiMoon
VIP Member
Yeah that’s my interpretation of her motive from what I’ve read - frustration with her own romantic life and inability to achieve her goal of having a family. She resented those for whom it seemed so easy.
Her difficulty may relate to asexuality, social awkwardness or disappointment with real life men and relationships.
MissTeddy
VIP Member
I’m so confused because there’s a dedicated Lucy Letby thread, isn’t all discussion to be there? I keep reading simialr things across both groups
We‘ve not discussed the case in detail here, but only recently as the verdict has come in.
I suspect criminal psychologists will be clambering to interview and study Letby for years and years. She presents an extremely unusual case without the motives of other medical murders.
I can’t remember who said it but I agree with the poster up thread who said there is more going on in her family background than we (or anyone) knows of.
And my final point is that I strongly believe murders are made - not born.
All babies are born innocent- without sin. A mental health condition, their environment, treatment, choices all affect this. And then there is the element of unpredictability, just because one person had a terrible childhood, grew up in poverty etc … they won’t necessarily turn to murder, but the next person will experience those circumstances differently- resulting in different consequences.
maytoseptember
VIP Member
I’m know that being long term single in your 20s is very highly stigmatised (unfairly so) and is by no means a sign that someone is “damaged” or “unloveable”. My post was by no means a criticism of any nice normal person who has been single most of their life.
The only reason it keeps being brought up re. LL is because people are grasping at straws for any oddity that might explain who she is and what she did. That’s certainly why I raised it.
I mean, the (very interesting) discussion around being born evil has arisen for the same reason - just trying to make sense of the incomprehensible.
FWIW I don’t believe babies are born evil, or born with a personality disorder. I can see why it’s easier to believe that they are.
LaBlonde
VIP Member
i would agree with that - i think people are grabbing onto any perceived “oddity”’about her because we know so little and that her crimes are so awful and completely inexplicable.
i just think, in the grand scheme of things, a young woman not having a serious boyfriend by the time she’s 25 isn’t “odd” to me but, even in the posts above, seems to have been decided upon as a motive because how could a single 25 year old not be disappointed with her lot/asexual/bitter etc. i find it strange and, as you say, unfairly stigmatised.
but absolutely agree people are clasping at straws because, in the bluntest of terms, there is nothing to work with motive wise. we will never know until she decides to tell us, and i think she never will.
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maytoseptember
VIP Member
I have similar thoughts re. the theory that she killed babies because she didn’t have one herself. I wouldn’t expect a woman of her age, who was apparently focusing on her career, to even be thinking about having kids let alone feeling bitter that she didn’t have any. Again, grasping at straws for any sort of simple explanation.
thegirlscout
VIP Member
Going to court is one thing, getting them up to the dock for sentencing is another
LouBug19
VIP Member
Exactly, she needs to go in the prison van to court but they can't drag her up from the cells. She gets transcripts which I doubt she will read. I know there is a law which they want to pass to make people attend the dock.
wishiniwasskinny
VIP Member
this documentary about the London Bridge terror attack may be interesting. Both due to the offence but also the fact the “heroes” were offenders (the event was a ex-offenders/prisoners event that he had attended.
London Bridge: Facing Terror, 9pm, Channel 4
This documentary reflects on the terrorist attack of November 2019 in which two people were killed and two others injured by Usman Khan as he wielded a kitchen knife on London Bridge. Three members of the public played roles in stopping the attacker from committing further atrocities. However, when the past criminality of two of those helpers was brought to the fore, the narrative shifted.
London Bridge: Facing Terror, 9pm, Channel 4
This documentary reflects on the terrorist attack of November 2019 in which two people were killed and two others injured by Usman Khan as he wielded a kitchen knife on London Bridge. Three members of the public played roles in stopping the attacker from committing further atrocities. However, when the past criminality of two of those helpers was brought to the fore, the narrative shifted.
she was a little odd and immature though… and looking at her notes to herself it’s like she resigned herself to never having them.
I know it’s not hugely extraordinary to not have a serious relationship by mid 20s. I didn’t even kiss a guy until my late teens. I didn’t meet my current OH until I was 26.
but… Lucy was SO immature and SO connected to her parents. Her bedroom and her furnishings were so odd.
I’d argue that to have *zero* relationship experience at all in your mid 20s is unusual. Statistically, most people have had at least one partner or dated by that point. I don’t think Lucy had at all. Maybe if she’d been a regular person and had more time to form relationships she’d have gotten there in the end but… there are strong hints of narcissicism with Letby, which makes me think she was never likely to be able to form a lasting relationship with someone and probably was aware herself that something was “off” about her.
I lived with a girl who was most definitely not a serial killer and I don’t think she was a narcissist at all. But she was an only child born to parents who were older and in their 40s. She was… bizarrely close to them. Beyond what was normal in someone’s 20s. They were incredibly overprotective of her, to her detriment. She was very immature. She is in her 30s now and has never had a boyfriend, not even dated someone. When I lived with her we were in our mid 20s and I genuinely think she had a sense that, that type of conventional life wasn’t going to be on the cards for her (maybe without realising why). I really suspect that there was an element of that with Letby and I think that jealousy did come through.
mostly though, I think she has zero empathy and didn’t see those babies as human. I don’t think she felt anything regarding the grief of the families or her colleagues. I think it was all a big dramatic game to her, a secret only she knew, a way to have power over others (maybe in contrast to the guilt and helplessness she felt being so tied to her parents?) a way to feel superior.
I don’t think we’ll ever understand Lucy Letby. She’s such an outlier from the norm, there’s very little to go on.
I think for a regular non-serial killer it’s not indicative of anything at all other than someone not meeting someone at the right time.
I think in the context of the murders, it’s noteworthy and gives an indication of her life and her possible motives/outlook/mindset.
I don’t think you can really ignore it - especially since her rambling notes bring it up.
maytoseptember
VIP Member
I do agree, which is why I raised it in the first place. Equally I understand why people think it’s a bit offensive because they extrapolate it into a criticism of anyone with little to no experience with romantic relationships
A whole life order then. No surprise there.
CabalofBolorneaise
VIP Member
The thing for me is that everyone is saying about her late 20s without a serious relationship but given what the police are saying now, her late 20s are sort of irrelevant? (and it all depends on definition of serious - tbf someone who had any association with her will be playing down how serious it is now all of this has come to light).
If they think she is quite possibly related to unexplained collapses as far back as 2011 then she started doing stuff like this at 21 and I don’t think anyone would say it was unusual to not have had a serious relationship or have a child by 21?
If they think she is quite possibly related to unexplained collapses as far back as 2011 then she started doing stuff like this at 21 and I don’t think anyone would say it was unusual to not have had a serious relationship or have a child by 21?
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