PCDs Elis James and John Robins #2 Is it us? Are we the drama?

1
Greetings all,

First time posting here 👋 hello. (Apologies in advance for this essay-length post!)

I want to start by saying I don't mean any personal offence or disrespect by the following question - I think this forum, and you guys here will be able to give the most honest answer, and informed perspective.

My back story as a listener - a fan since their early days on XFM, always kept up to date with that podcast, and got many of my (non-UK based) comedy fan friends onto it as well, saw John live in Edinburgh etc.

Skip forward to the early days of the BBC show. I listened for the first few months, but at this point I was getting pretty disillusioned with John's behaviour and the way he treated and spoke to Elis & Dave on the show. To me, it was such a strange mix of arrogance and anxiety. He had little pockets of self-awareness where he would explain how his thoughts were unhelpful, or disparaging, and how it made him unpleasant to be around. And then he would criticise everyone that didn't think in exactly the same way, or had a differing perspective/way of life. It's like he completely lacks any empathy, unless someone spells it out for him.

ANYWAY, early pandemic I stop listening to the show, as I was not enjoying it at all.

Skip forward again, John stops drinking. I read/listened to a few interviews around this time, and thought great, sounds like he's putting in a lot of effort to grow and change his actions. I started listening to the podcast again, interested in the progress, and his 'arc' for want of a better word.

I'm now up to November 2023 in the podcast, and to put it bluntly, John is still an unbearable ass. He is so unprofessional, and self-centred. If Elis or Dave behaved or spoke to him like he does to them, he would have a complete meltdown.

So, now to my question; dear devotees, does it ever get any better? If not, I'll cut my loses, and bow out again now. I thought by NOV 23 I would be hearing an improvement. Please, don't get me wrong, I still find the podcast funny! But also, John can sometimes be so unpleasant that I ask myself why I'm choosing listen at all.

Again, apologies for the length, and no personal disrespect.

Has anyone else had these kinds of mixed feelings? TIA!
 
You’ve put into words my feelings exactly! I do feel that Elis and Dave walk on eggshells around John. They are very mindful of not upsetting him. However, sometimes he can be extremely empathetic and kind himself. I like to think that Elis and Dave put up with his, sometimes, crappy behaviour because they love him and know he doesn’t really mean it but it’s still uncomfortable to hear.
 
RW58 said:
Greetings all,

First time posting here 👋 hello. (Apologies in advance for this essay-length post!)

I want to start by saying I don't mean any personal offence or disrespect by the following question - I think this forum, and you guys here will be able to give the most honest answer, and informed perspective.

My back story as a listener - a fan since their early days on XFM, always kept up to date with that podcast, and got many of my (non-UK based) comedy fan friends onto it as well, saw John live in Edinburgh etc.

Skip forward to the early days of the BBC show. I listened for the first few months, but at this point I was getting pretty disillusioned with John's behaviour and the way he treated and spoke to Elis & Dave on the show. To me, it was such a strange mix of arrogance and anxiety. He had little pockets of self-awareness where he would explain how his thoughts were unhelpful, or disparaging, and how it made him unpleasant to be around. And then he would criticise everyone that didn't think in exactly the same way, or had a differing perspective/way of life. It's like he completely lacks any empathy, unless someone spells it out for him.

ANYWAY, early pandemic I stop listening to the show, as I was not enjoying it at all.

Skip forward again, John stops drinking. I read/listened to a few interviews around this time, and thought great, sounds like he's putting in a lot of effort to grow and change his actions. I started listening to the podcast again, interested in the progress, and his 'arc' for want of a better word.

I'm now up to November 2023 in the podcast, and to put it bluntly, John is still an unbearable ass. He is so unprofessional, and self-centred. If Elis or Dave behaved or spoke to him like he does to them, he would have a complete meltdown.

So, now to my question; dear devotees, does it ever get any better? If not, I'll cut my loses, and bow out again now. I thought by NOV 23 I would be hearing an improvement. Please, don't get me wrong, I still find the podcast funny! But also, John can sometimes be so unpleasant that I ask myself why I'm choosing listen at all.

Again, apologies for the length, and no personal disrespect.

Has anyone else had these kinds of mixed feelings? TIA!
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I definitely think he was in a bad place. Doesn’t excuse it, but the last few episodes I have shrieked with laughter (especially this past Friday’s) and have felt “ah! There’s the old Johnny JR!”

I suppose I have maybe been happy to give him a pass because of how open he’s been about things he is dealing with (and I know personally when all your friends and contemporaries are settling down, getting wed, having babies etc it can cause resentment/sadness)

It does feel like there’s some cosseting sometimes, but I also think that that can come with any friendship dynamic. It definitely does feel like a bit of a return to form of late so maybe just whizz through all of 2024? 🤣🤷🏻‍♀️

ETA: sorry, I forgot myself there. This is Tattle and we are famously awful 😑. So I’ll say “how dare you disrespect the boys. Get out of here you awful person.” (Did I do it right?)
 
RW58 said:
Greetings all,

First time posting here 👋 hello. (Apologies in advance for this essay-length post!)

I want to start by saying I don't mean any personal offence or disrespect by the following question - I think this forum, and you guys here will be able to give the most honest answer, and informed perspective.

My back story as a listener - a fan since their early days on XFM, always kept up to date with that podcast, and got many of my (non-UK based) comedy fan friends onto it as well, saw John live in Edinburgh etc.

Skip forward to the early days of the BBC show. I listened for the first few months, but at this point I was getting pretty disillusioned with John's behaviour and the way he treated and spoke to Elis & Dave on the show. To me, it was such a strange mix of arrogance and anxiety. He had little pockets of self-awareness where he would explain how his thoughts were unhelpful, or disparaging, and how it made him unpleasant to be around. And then he would criticise everyone that didn't think in exactly the same way, or had a differing perspective/way of life. It's like he completely lacks any empathy, unless someone spells it out for him.

ANYWAY, early pandemic I stop listening to the show, as I was not enjoying it at all.

Skip forward again, John stops drinking. I read/listened to a few interviews around this time, and thought great, sounds like he's putting in a lot of effort to grow and change his actions. I started listening to the podcast again, interested in the progress, and his 'arc' for want of a better word.

I'm now up to November 2023 in the podcast, and to put it bluntly, John is still an unbearable ass. He is so unprofessional, and self-centred. If Elis or Dave behaved or spoke to him like he does to them, he would have a complete meltdown.

So, now to my question; dear devotees, does it ever get any better? If not, I'll cut my loses, and bow out again now. I thought by NOV 23 I would be hearing an improvement. Please, don't get me wrong, I still find the podcast funny! But also, John can sometimes be so unpleasant that I ask myself why I'm choosing listen at all.

Again, apologies for the length, and no personal disrespect.

Has anyone else had these kinds of mixed feelings? TIA!
Click to expand...
I do feel like it has got better more recently. Does seem to be a bit of a combination of him having a bit more awareness, but also the other two not playing into it as much. Maybe now he’s in a bit of a better place they feel able to rather than previously needing to just accept it and tread carefully because of how he was mentally.
The listening is definitely less uncomfortable now I’d say
 
I think this is a really interesting and important discussion. Thank you for raising it in the way you have. My personal view is that we (society, generally) are comfortable saying “it’s ok not to be ok” and “talk to someone if you’re struggling”, but then when we are faced with someone displaying challenging behaviour as a result of mental illness or poor mental health, we get really uncomfortable.

This doesn’t mean John is beyond criticism or that we should all just gloss over it, but for me personally this is the epitome of the old “be kind, you never know what someone is going through” trope (that Dave probably has printed on a wall in his house 😉)

Is/was John’s behaviour ideal? No. But he’s actively working on it (based on his mentions of therapy etc) and his friends are supporting him. To me it’s listening to a man in recovery and hearing his journey.
 
fishyfishfish said:
I think this is a really interesting and important discussion. Thank you for raising it in the way you have. My personal view is that we (society, generally) are comfortable saying “it’s ok not to be ok” and “talk to someone if you’re struggling”, but then when we are faced with someone displaying challenging behaviour as a result of mental illness or poor mental health, we get really uncomfortable.

This doesn’t mean John is beyond criticism or that we should all just gloss over it, but for me personally this is the epitome of the old “be kind, you never know what someone is going through” trope (that Dave probably has printed on a wall in his house 😉)

Is/was John’s behaviour ideal? No. But he’s actively working on it (based on his mentions of therapy etc) and his friends are supporting him. To me it’s listening to a man in recovery and hearing his journey.
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A very good point ❤️
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I also think, we see a tiny snapshot of their friendship on the show. Add to that they have carved out personalities they play up to (even how they introduced the new podcast in January with Elis rushing) so perhaps there’s an element of that?
 
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I think it’s a podcast and they are comedians and half of it is a character.
in a recent pod John mentions him and Elis having a 30+ minute phone call the night before. That is when they will be real friends. The show is the show and I think the parasocial aspect means people can take it all at face value and assume that is their literal relationship with little to no other facets / interactions. When really all we see / hear is a couple of hours of semi scripted chat.
but as with anything it is very subjective and of course you don’t have to like or enjoy it at all. It has definitely been uncomfortable and I can see how John is a dominating presence completely.
i do see it as some of Elis’ dynamic also as Mike bubbins is the same. Very dominating in that show. Talks about himself and his son at great length etc etc and if I listen to too many too often it’s very grating.

the last few weeks of the pod have actually made me laugh out loud - I can see elis riffing more and it’s more light hearted even with the spooky bum procedure.

in short - I’d give it another go from mid October this year and it may very well still not be for you. And that’s fine.
 
I think the back end of the "live on 5 Live" era is bad in quite a lot of ways in retrospect. Also in November last year John was in the middle of the his tour which he later talked about being extremely hard relieving the story he tells in that stand up about his alcoholism night after night.

Personally I'd skip to when they relaunch the podcast in Feb of this year as John has had a month or two off, and personally I think this year the podcast is the best it has ever been at the BBC. Still a lot of up and down moments for John but I think him not touring especially takes that edge off him.
 
This is my Eras tour
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Madeofeyes said:
I think it’s a podcast and they are comedians and half of it is a character.
in a recent pod John mentions him and Elis having a 30+ minute phone call the night before. That is when they will be real friends. The show is the show and I think the parasocial aspect means people can take it all at face value and assume that is their literal relationship with little to no other facets / interactions. When really all we see / hear is a couple of hours of semi scripted chat.
but as with anything it is very subjective and of course you don’t have to like or enjoy it at all. It has definitely been uncomfortable and I can see how John is a dominating presence completely.
i do see it as some of Elis’ dynamic also as Mike bubbins is the same. Very dominating in that show. Talks about himself and his son at great length etc etc and if I listen to too many too often it’s very grating.

the last few weeks of the pod have actually made me laugh out loud - I can see elis riffing more and it’s more light hearted even with the spooky bum procedure.

in short - I’d give it another go from mid October this year and it may very well still not be for you. And that’s fine.
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Thanks everyone for their input and perspective!

I know we're not really listening to John/Elis/Dave's true personalities, or their real life relationship. And we shouldn't draw any conclusions from 2 hours of edited content. These are personas.

But I think my main issue is that if John's comedy persona is so distasteful, hypocritical, and judgemental, or his dynamic within their duo is to be abrasive, and unprofessional - then honestly that's not something I really want to listen to anymore.

Maybe it's hammed up for comedy, but honestly, I'm not entirely convinced. If it is all an act, why do Elis and Dave have to tread so carefully, tiptoeing around his moods, cosseting.

I had a long drive yesterday, and caught up with the latest few eps of Ed Gamble & Matthew Crosby's Radio X show. I know it's a very different vibe, but I think within the podcast sphere, they're comparable. They're similar ages, careers, backgrounds etc. They're not part of the laddish "bigger boys". They chatted about serious, and not so serious topics. Ed discussed the ups & downs of touring, and Matthew touched upon his anxiety & talking with his therapist.

& at the end I wasn't left with a bad taste in my mouth, so to speak, that I would definitely have had if I listened to 2 episodes back-to-back of E&J.

So, again thanks for the discussion everyone! Appreciate you putting up with, and listening to the issues I have with the show personally. I think I'll retire it from my feed for now, but who knows! If I ever pick it up again, I'll jump forward to late 2024, thanks for the recommendations! 🙏

P.S. My mind is coming up with some very weird guesses on what 'spooky bum procedure' means 😂
 
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