Plus J in particular is 19 now. I stopped going on holiday with my parents once I turned 18 and had my own money. After all P and E have 3 other young children, including a pretty now baby so I can see how a teenager like J and even P may want some 'quiet' time without their siblings around, and then possibly take the opportunity to go visit their mum and nan. Interesting how they seem to go together these days though, they both went to the mothers day lunch and now both either at the rental or IOW. So at least they are being supportive of each other around their so called mother.