wibble
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Do we know when the subject of divorce was first raised?
Johnny Depp and Amber Heard #11
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Those pro-Amber articles in the Guardian, Vogue etc are seriously pissing me off. I thought the whole point of “believe all women” was that all women who speak out about about sexual harassment, assault or violence should be taken seriously and have their cases investigated properly rather than being ignored or told it’s their fault. I didn’t know it actually meant “believe all women about everything simply because they possess vaginas, even when there’s literally zero evidence that supports their accusation”. Those articles are disgraceful, and anyone who is closely following this case can see it. I’ve had my fill of trial-by-journalism and being told what to think by some right-on 30-something activist. They can all duck right off.
LByrne74
VIP Member
The recordings of her are horrible. Can feel the bad vibes off her even listening to her. Imagine being actually in her presence that whole time. I don't know how Johnny didn't do himself in tbh and I don't blame him one bit for going heavier on the drink and drugs when he was with her. She seemed to like him being on the Xanax though - it seemed to benefit her and maybe she felt it made him more compliant.
Dotty Merton
VIP Member
She corrected herself quickly but not quickly enough.
Exactly. To do something that would require such extreme force he would surely use his dominant hand which I believe was either bandaged or in a cast?! So, he somehow managed to a) hold her entire body down with a hand at her throat & using his other hand b) force the bottle inside her
There was no blood or skin, etc on the bottle & there should have been. She would have been bleeding heavily & in excruciating pain, no way would she not have needed medical help. Had it happened I doubt she would have been able to even walk properly afterwards.
I was in agony after having a (benign) cyst removed from down there & it hurt for a couple of weeks to walk, sit, etc
She testified her feet were cut after the attack yet on that tape where immediately after his finger tip is severed we hear her apologising to Johnny & saying she didn't mean to do it, we also hear her walking around in heels. She is one tough woman.
I may be wrong, (and stand to be corrected if so), but it was my understanding that the SA incident allegedly occurred the same night (shortly after) the finger had been severed. So there would be no bandage/cast but a very damaged and seemingly very painful and bloodied hand. Hence the expectation for there to be blood on the bottle he was reportedly holding. Have I mixed up my incidents?
throwawaykid12
Well-known member
I’m an avid feminist and I don’t agree that from the jump all should be believed one hundred percent - I would more so say, they should be given the benefit of the doubt until all avenues to establish credibility/evidence etc. of the situation have been exhausted and the truth has been established!
Of course we want to believe that no one would lie about such a sensitive topic, but unfortunately issues like this are not black and white, there is much gray area - and unfortunately people do lie, so it’s important to recognise that the proper protocols should be followed to establish blame in situations like this, as many peoples lives/reputations/livelihoods rely on the outcome and a lot of them have in fact unfortunately been wrongfully accused.
Of course we want to believe that no one would lie about such a sensitive topic, but unfortunately issues like this are not black and white, there is much gray area - and unfortunately people do lie, so it’s important to recognise that the proper protocols should be followed to establish blame in situations like this, as many peoples lives/reputations/livelihoods rely on the outcome and a lot of them have in fact unfortunately been wrongfully accused.
Just William
VIP Member
Agreed.
Also this body language expert uses a computer graphic showing Whitney's testimony compared to Ambers & how different the sisters stories are. It won't happen but the jury should be shown this. Christ talk about flying off the handle. I literally did not say either of those things.
I obviously didn’t say that we should “do away with rape trials” and that women never lie. What a bizarre thing to say. But statistically they have been found to do so very rarely. Even when a rape has taken place, it is still rare for a conviction to happen. So for an individual to be both wrongly accused (less than 3% chance of that happening) and have that go on to become a successful conviction (there’s only a 1.6% conviction rate) that individual would have to be exceptionally unlucky.
A man is, statistically, more likely to be raped by another man than he is likely to go to jail for a false accusation of rape.
what do you suppose the motivation for all these
Women making up rape is? Attention? Most rape victims stay anonymous. Monetary gain? Hardly any. Because they regret sex? Court proceedings are a hundred times more intrusive and shame inducing than a regretted sexual incounter. Out of malice/jealousy? Maybe, but to suggest a significant amount of rapes reported are done out of malice is pretty damning (and IMO, unfair) on the female sex.
your line of argument/logic is ridiculous. Wishing your son was gay is bleeping bizarre?
you could just like, teach him to respect women and discuss what healthy consent looks like instead of wishing he was gay/going on a weird rant at me and flying off the handle because I quoted a statistic?
my days I’m off to take a paracetamol
Dotty Merton
VIP Member
I didn't really know anything about Grimes before, she's a work of art, that shoulder pad jacket! I hope all the kids get to know each other, Oonagh is gonna need some siblings in time. Wtf does Elon think he is doing, breeding an army?
welp
VIP Member
how many of those reported cases were woman lying but it wasnt proven?
I know of at least three in my enviroment and the only reason why the man didnt (or continued to) pursue justice is because he was accused of hurting his children by hurting their mother (the "victim") or the things Depp is now accussed of.
If you argue about unreported cases please do it on both sides.
If you talk about those proven to be liars consider those that lied but werent found out.
Women lie a lot, just like men lie a lot, every human lies a lot. And because rape is such a sensitive thing that can cause a lot of damage just to be accussed of people (and yes, they are disgusting fucks for doing this) that want revenge on someone are more likely to venture into that territory. They are doing massive damage to the many many (and yes, of course there are way more female victims than male, no one argues against it) victims by doing this.
I'm btw not saying that it definitely applies to this case, mind. But this whole attitude that the mainstream media seem to push that you have to support Heard because she is a woman is completely nuts.
And yes, I understand the concerns people have on how this case affects DV victims, but if we start to treat cases by the probability of genders committing crimes we may as well pack up and let every women that has ill-intention just go ahead and do what they want because using the justice system apparently is evil or whatever. There are a lot of calls to remove the bias against certain races in the justice system (whether that has been succesful or ever will be is a different question), weird how for genders the same effort isn't made.
Just William
VIP Member
Whooooaa! That did nothing for my poor Marlborough pickled, head-splitting, cell-depleting brain!We need dolphin sounds and birdsong!
I do however, believe I may have happened upon my new ringtone
I have the Depp song that @Influncer Snarker posted (p14) in my head!
My 13 year old came out of his bedroom playing this song this morning. He says everyone is listening to it at the moment
Idontevengohere
VIP Member
Wasn't there something about JD having retained a divorce lawyer around this time? And that this is what this incident was about?
ETA: As in around Dec 2015/ James Corden incident
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)why don’t you google and do your own homework on it?
“women are lying” is a common myth surrounding rape. So is the idea that rapists are inherently evil, violent beings jumping out from behind bushes.
let me put it this way because I can’t believe I’m having to argue this, but you’ll struggle to find decent material to suggest that there are lots of women lying about being raped. There just isn’t sufficient evidence to suggest it’s happening on a remarkable scale at all.
I have worked in the criminal justice system. I can’t remember the exact statsistic but it’s in the 90s% of rapes are confusion over consent. Usually with alcohol involved. The girl isn’t a liar; the man isn’t evil. But he thought he had consent and the girl really didn’t want to or wasn’t able to. There are no winners and it’s a pretty crappy situation all around. And that’s the crux of the issue. Consent. Not lying. not swathes of evil, lying females. Male expectations and perceptions of sex and perhaps a wider societal issue on how we view sex and female bodies.
I’ll repeat again: women making up their rapes isn’t the biggest issue surrounding rape and rape trials; it’s confusion over consent and lack therof.
now if you want to believe outdated myths surrounding rape then be my guest, but please no more quoting me, as this is a thread about Heard V Depp and my paractemol hasn’t kicked in yet.
Just William
VIP Member
knickerbocker glory said:
I wonder why it's not done with a 50/50 selection?
I read that as wondering why it wasn't more equal ratio of men/women & wondered that myself, or as equal as it can be with an uneven number, lol!
But I guess it also comes down to who is available, who the lawyers choose or bin & the big one finding jurors who haven't followed the earlier case!
I still think it's tough for a juror to have sat through this for weeks then be denied the chance to decide on the verdict. I would be well pissed off!
I wonder why it's not done with a 50/50 selection?
I read that as wondering why it wasn't more equal ratio of men/women & wondered that myself, or as equal as it can be with an uneven number, lol!
But I guess it also comes down to who is available, who the lawyers choose or bin & the big one finding jurors who haven't followed the earlier case!
I still think it's tough for a juror to have sat through this for weeks then be denied the chance to decide on the verdict. I would be well pissed off!
wibble
VIP Member
Yes....
And she made a freudian slip on the stand when she said she was punching herself in the head.
Whitney didn't say he always a pocket knife for no reason.
Everyone thinks he's being called to testify about Adam Waldman - for Amber's counter suit.
But suppose there is a Columbo moment?
And he's asked if he has the pocket knife....
And it happens to match the pocket knife on the bed.
It's not Amber's job to produce the evidence.
It's what I'd do if I was her sleazy lawyer.
Just William
VIP Member
Good catch with his 'truth' ring. Well it's certainly out there now.
Something which I've just read something which I've never really considered before. I'll try my best to paraphrase but I'm nowhere near as intelligent as you guys.
Not to mention his addictions. They were helpful.
Has it come up at all why they got married?
Johnny was obviously with Vanessa for a long time and they never got married, he obviously never married his other serious girlfriends.
my understanding was that the abuse Amber alleged happened, was before their wedding/trying to understand why they got married at all when their relationship was so volatile
seems strange that he seemed to have a pretty contented, settle life with Vanessa / no marriage
Is with Amber, there’s violence drugs and alcohol but for some reason they think it’s a good idea to get married.
also has the dog incident in Australia come up? That was v v bizarre
Johnny was obviously with Vanessa for a long time and they never got married, he obviously never married his other serious girlfriends.
my understanding was that the abuse Amber alleged happened, was before their wedding/trying to understand why they got married at all when their relationship was so volatile
seems strange that he seemed to have a pretty contented, settle life with Vanessa / no marriage
Is with Amber, there’s violence drugs and alcohol but for some reason they think it’s a good idea to get married.
also has the dog incident in Australia come up? That was v v bizarre
wibble
VIP Member
It doesn't matter, because it can't be changed.
The question wouldn't be asked if the ratio were reversed.
But given that the jurors filled in a questionaire to find bias, my guess is that Amber's lawyers think women are more likely to judge her case more harshly....
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AuroraBorealis
VIP Member
What is the source of this 3%? Which research?
Or is the number in a particular country/region (of cases where liars got caught/were proven to lie)?
In the case of my mother, my father never reported her. He (and we all) suffered in secret.
However, my mother accused her first husband of DV (she had married him when she was 19; for years afterwards, she kept saying that she did not want to marry him but her mother and elder sisters forced her as the man was very wealthy -- everything was always someone else's fault; she earned a lot via that divorce -- and only many years after she had been dead (she died young -- luckily for us, I'll have to admit) we started to wonder how truthful she had been as we had suffered from her violence and lack of boundaries day in and day out + once one of her girlfriends let it slip that she never saw our mother with any injuries, yet saw bruises in her husband's face.
In the case of my close friend (I have described in one of the earlier threads), his fiancee kept battering him for many years (among other things kicked out his front teeth, broke a wine bottle against his head, threw a mobile to his face -- hence I know what the result looks like and it is a bloody mess, used fists, mocked him, insulted him, accused him of planning to leave her) and he kept making excuses for her, that she is ill and can't help it and needs him, and what will happen to her if he left, and he thought he loved her, as there was love bombing, manipulation, and gaslighting going on always as well. He started to doubt himself and what he experienced. He even later told me he had told himself that all relationships have problems and if he'd only try harder and be the perfect man, she'll be happy and stop the abuse.He loved going to parties and music festivals with her as among other people she acted all lovey-dovey with lots of PDA to show everyone that this gorgeous man is hers.
When they were alone though, she got angry over nothing and very abruptly, he tried to leave for a few hours every time when it happened, she did not want to let him, she hated that (so it is very similar to AH).
So, the one evening when she started up the aggression over nothing, and he tried to leave the house, she lounged at him, he stepped away, she fell and got hurt. He called the ambulance, and as she claimed he attacked her and battered her (which was not true), police came, and he was arrested. Afterwards, she gave again promises and begged him and was all sweetness and he promised to keep what had really happened a secret and gave her yet another chance. In order to protect her, he took the blame and went through an anger management course (what anger? he cannot hurt a fly). And then there were a couple of relatively peaceful months with many fun parties and festivals until one day, out of the blue, she grabbed the wheel on a coastal road and tried to run them over a cliff. Finally, that was it for him. He left her there,went back to town and moved out. And she was bombing him with messages, begging him to come back, and he was hesitating and thought that perhaps he should. But then he learnt from her friends that she had been telling her friends that he is a domestic abuser. She had cut him off from his own friends, however, some of her friends became his friends (as he is such a lovely person) and so he kind of kept them (and they believed him). He also got his old friends back (I hope the same for JD). However, this false accusation of DV is not reflected in any statistics as being false. Officially the victim became the abuser (when the truth was the opposite).But then he learnt from her friends that she had been telling her friends that he is a domestic abuser. She had cut him off from his own friends, however, some of her friends became his friends (as he is such a lovely person) and so he kind of kept them (and they believed him). He also got his old friends back (I hope the same for JD). However, this false accusation of DV is not reflected in any statistics as being false. Officially the victim became the abuser (when the truth was the opposite).But then he learnt from her friends that she had been telling her friends that he is a domestic abuser. She had cut him off from his own friends, however, some of her friends became his friends (as he is such a lovely person) and so he kind of kept them (and they believed him). He also got his old friends back (I hope the same for JD). However, this false accusation of DV is not reflected in any statistics as being false. Officially the victim became the abuser (when the truth was the opposite).Officially the victim became the abuser (when the truth was the opposite).Officially the victim became the abuser (when the truth was the opposite).
And I am quite sure that there are more cases like that.
Also, re my childhood. One of my mother's female friends was an abuser. They lived in another city. I remember when I was staying over there, when I was about 12, I witnessed her chasing along with the huge house and beating her husband. Their son (a bit older than me), took me and his dog to a hiding place, he was very embarrassed, but I learnt it happened often. A couple of times she yelled at me too for no reason. She was a monster to her son's girlfriend (who became my friend and still is), always tried to break them apart and managed as the guy had come momma's boy (perhaps out of fear as each time he did not do what his mother told him, she threatened to hang herself). I recall,how we were at the graduation ceremony of the son and I was sitting next to his girlfriend (who was already my friend) and his mother came and sat next to me and when she noticed who is sitting next to me, she stood up in the middle of the ceremony and stormed out and left. After that, I was the enemy and dead for her. I only saw her once more, at my mother's funeral. She marched in, screeched at us (my father, my sister and I) that we are to blame, that we killed our mother (she died of cancer), and marched out. I later learnt from the guy's girlfriend about the abuse she suffered from him; they finally broke up for good when she refused to go through with another abortion and gave birth to a baby girl (he came to the hospital and told her that if it were a boy he'd recognise it;it was good for her to get rid of him though as he had several guys who were in love with her and he chose one who has been an amazing father to this girl and also their children + after long marriage she fell in love with him and they are very happy) and even decades later he has not left her completely alone (from time to time he surfaces all drunk and is verbally abusive and calls her names). There are rumours he has been abusing his wife, he keeps lovers, he is very rich and powerful, a pillar of society, and a full-blown narcissist like his mother (my sister and I cut him out from our lives completely a long time ago for various reasons).
My mother also liked to play a matchmaker. One match she made, she was particularly proud of. One of her younger colleagues she had taken under her wing and a famous scientist who had been my dad's friend and who had been banished like almost all of his friends -- now, through this marriage, my dad got this friend back. When it comes to abuse, I few times witnessed cruelty from her, my sister never did. (She was also rather nasty towards another female colleague my mother had taken under her wing, to an extent that she managed to banish her from our social circle).
I also witnessed how she was putting his husband down, telling bad things about him behind his back, making fun of him etc. My sister interacts with her quite often, she is really sweet to her, and she is nice to me too, yet I am keeping my distance. Because of what I have witnessed and because a few years before his death my dad trusted me with information that he had learnt from his friend that this woman behaves like our mother behind the closed doors, and can be extremely cruel and abusive.
I also cut out one of my friends from my life, who somehow managed to become quite close and entangle herself in all aspects of my life and despite my knowledge of people like this, it took me several years and warnings by some other friends and my sister and being humiliated by her in public before I admitted what she was really like. I kept making excuses for her, her tough childhood etc. She was very very toxic (and not dissimilar to my mother; it is another long story) and it was a healthy choice for me to go NC with her. Oh, and at some point, I witnessed her punching her husband (a respected and popular politician/a MP).
What I am trying to say is that there are also many people in these threads who have first-hand knowledge of such women. Some of us have our souls shredded and torn by our mothers, we have suffered physical violence from them. We have encountered such women in all walks of life.
So, the percentage of them in society could be higher than we think.
And all evidence points to AH being one of them.
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