Jack Monroe #578 She’s been involved in more breakdowns than the RAC

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nothanksbabes said:
I've met a few people very like Jack, and my experience was that in the moment they don't (or can't) differentiate between the truth and a lie that they think is a justified means to an end. They also in my experience can't empathise with others. Although they think they're very good at it, their idea of empathy is making stuff about them. And if you can't put yourself in someone else's place, it's hard to understand that others see through your lies and perceive you as a delusional embarrassment.

Jack is very much of the opinion that she's hard done by, so the constant lies and embellishments about her "poverty" are, to her, totally justified and therefore as good as true, even when they're the opposite of observable reality.

I think she's a covert rather than a grandiose narcissist though, so self-sabotage is another means to an end, because she gets to be the victim and be softly, gently scooped up and looked after when she invariably fucks up and orchestrates another breakdown.
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I agree and you can also be both a narcissist and bleeping thick. They’re not all evil masterminds.
 
VeniVidiVicki said:
Her lies are part of her narcissism. I do think she’s got a mental illness. That doesn’t make her any less of a terrible human being though.
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I know we try not to diagnose here, and I think that’s only right since we only see snippets of her life (and we are not Dr Drs). Some of her behaviour is just not normal - she tries to assign it to her self-allocated affliction of the moment but as those of us dealing with those issues can tell you, there’s no sense of truth to it.
 
Perhaps she was little bit of an odd one prior to her moment in the spotlight but that blast of success was so intense and sudden it may have set off a ticking bomb nestled amongst her synapses. And the creation we know as Guest was formed. If she'd never been hoiked put of the grey sludge of anonymity and given notions about herself, we'd have been spared such gems as Three Tin Tender and any number of horrors.
Yet still the horrors are revealed. Some remain as fresh as the first encounter and others don't bear remembering.

How has it lasted thus far?
 
CabalofBolorneaise said:
She never has been. I know she’s a bleep and has had every opportunity to help herself etc but I don’t believe she’s simply a scheming narc - she actively harms herself sometimes through her actions and they’re not what anyone sane, including a narc, would do. A pure narc with nothing else going on would never sabotage themselves in that way.

It’s why I think sometimes she’s not lying in the traditional sense. Yes she does that a lot too, but the times saying something she truly believes even if it’s delusional then is it really lying? Lying to me requires someone to know something isn’t true - eg a 4 year old saying Santa bought them their bike isn’t lying just because their parent actually bought it as the child really believes Santa did.
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Some NPDs do, they can’t bear dissent
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TheMiceInTheShed said:
Oh - that's very sad.

I didn't realise they had lost a child. I thought they just had two boys.
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I think Cameron was in opposition but was very kind to him at the time (obviously, that’s no time to be a twunt but he was speaking from the heart as he understood the pain of losing a child) despite being a Tory wanker he’s actually also a person, who knew 🙄
 
CabalofBolorneaise said:
She never has been. I know she’s a bleep and has had every opportunity to help herself etc but I don’t believe she’s simply a scheming narc - she actively harms herself sometimes through her actions and they’re not what anyone sane, including a narc, would do. A pure narc with nothing else going on would never sabotage themselves in that way.

It’s why I think sometimes she’s not lying in the traditional sense. Yes she does that a lot too, but the times saying something she truly believes even if it’s delusional then is it really lying? Lying to me requires someone to know something isn’t true - eg a 4 year old saying Santa bought them their bike isn’t lying just because their parent actually bought it as the child really believes Santa did.
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What is a 'pure narc' though? Is it not perhaps fair to argue that really all narcissists behave in self-destructive ways, because when I think 'narcissist', I don't think 'happy, fulfilled, content person'. Like does anybody actually want to be a narc? We might argue that the CEO types who live in plain sight are quite content with their lot, but I'd still wager that their internal world is a nuclear war-zone, which - combined with a lack of empathy/compassion for the emotional state of others - is what drives their destructive behaviour.

I think @nothanksbabes is bang on about guest's narcissism being covert rather than grandiose - I hadn't heard the term until I read it here and then when I read into it, my mind was 🤯. Self-destructive behaviour can still be fuelled by narcissism imo, because it's all about self-soothing and regulating. But that same behaviour can at the same time have devastating - and long lasting - consequences on those around them, which makes responding to them with the empathy and compassion they lack really very difficult. Like, I can intellectualise it, even carry it out from a distance sometimes, and I think finding ways of empathising and understand Jack and her behaviour is always going to be worthwhile and is part of what makes these threads enjoyable.

But I also know someone like Jack is probably always going to trigger that 'core wound' for me, which is why it's important there are people (ie professionals) not on tattle on who can do the empathising for us, and I can just allow myself the freedom to project what I need to project. At the end of the day, we're only responding to what she's doing!
 
Elsie Ben Felyn said:
I’m going camping tomorrow - albeit in my Mazda Bongo with flushing toilet and room for a retriever - I have attached a mug to my luggage and have rubbed mud on my face in preparation for my ‘leaving civilisation now, lads’ selfie. I will write notes in Italian, Welsh and Inuit. See you on the other side.
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Have you got half a bladder of piss-warm white wine or is that only for festivals and imaginary conversations with FBU members? 🧐
 
chizontiz said:
Jess Phillips made a similar throwaway comment on a recent HIGNFY ep. Both come across as totally insincere imo and read as attempts to make them seem more working class/ 'relatable' :rolleyes:. I can imagine both kids seeing it on TV and being like "wtf? I don't even vape?" or, even if it is true, the white hot embarrassment/confusion of "she's never said anything like this to me?". Like to them "my kid vapes, what's he like :rolleyes:" is a weird status signal and in reality has nothing to do with whether or not their kid actually vapes (or their overall wellbeing, as per).

I also think someone like White Dee would get a very different cultural response if she made a passing comment about one of her teens cadging cigs off her behind her back, but she wouldn't (at least not in the same context as JM and JP - how often are the likes of White Dee invited onto QT and HIGNFY? I know she had her moment and I thought she might have been on QT at one point but I've just had a quick google and couldn't find anything) because what would it gain her beyond everyone calling her and her kids scum? Even though w/c and m/c kids have been finding ways to get hold of cigs and booze for as long as cigs and booze has existed! Not that that is okay, it's just the reality of parenting.
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M/c and upper are worse for drugs than anyone never mind vaping and a vit of booze 😂 my daughters dad went to one of the most expensive private schools in the country and says at least half his classmates had a pretty bad coke habit through secondary. Because their parents just didn't have a normal perspective of just how much money they were giving their kids every week. The kids could afford their habbits easily.

Where my fella lives is the nicest part of town, and their kids (teens) are always across the field drugged up 😂 I've seen them meeting their drug dealers in the layby near my fellas house. The parents have literally no idea.

Every so often there will be a post on the Facebook group they set up because they can't contact or find their kid and someone will be like "OMG I saw a girl like that in a black merc/audi/bmw/golf on the layby on XXXX Lane" as if they're about to crack some child abduction tit and I'm sag there reading saying to myself "THATS NOT AN ABDUCTION HUN THATS A DRUG DEAL. She's on the field over there off her head getting fingered". I just don't get involved.
 
I'm disappointed not to see the work of secret frau Andy Lynes acknowledged in the Guild of Food Writers Awards nominations. But I suspect that is the sort of recognition that has all sorts of internal politics going on behind the scenes.

I do note however that judging by the "partners" listed at the bottom of the nominations page, these awards are not exactly free of conflicts of interest. I imagine the awards ceremony itself has as much corporate bottom-kissing as one of Big Lin's events.
 
Carefree said:
FFS. Grenfell's anniversary is tomorrow and her FBU chat still makes me cringe myself inside out. twit.
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given how deeply, personally impacted she was by Grenfell, has she ever mentioned attending any of the memorial walks in the years since? I went a few years ago, and we saw S t o r m z y (spacing to avoid the tattle joke I don't get because y'know, time and place) who was trying very hard to not be seen/make a fuss. There were lots of speeches and some performances but not from him, he was just there to attend. Just googled and saw that Jeremy Corbyn was there that year too. Not saying I think Jack should be attending, but rather we'd all hear about it if she did.
 
All tattle threads call the subject a narcissist and to pursue fame/influence/attention in the ways they do to warrant a thread they'll be some truth in it. What's certainly true is that they're all extroverts and the older I get the less I can abide that tap dancing look at me neediness in ppl that assumes everyone is as interested in their lives as they are. Had a great weekend and you're about to tell me all about it are you? Well I've got a great book here. duck off.
 
chizontiz said:
given how deeply, personally impacted she was by Grenfell, has she ever mentioned attending any of the memorial walks in the years since? I went a few years ago, and we saw S t o r m z y (spacing to avoid the tattle joke I don't get because y'know, time and place) who was trying very hard to not be seen/make a fuss. There were lots of speeches and some performances but not from him, he was just there to attend. Just googled and saw that Jeremy Corbyn was there that year too. Not saying I think Jack should be attending, but rather we'd all hear about it if she did.
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I'll be at the Silent Walk tomorrow, 🍉 Not sure Jack would be comfortable there, given it's inner city London, surrounded by estates and a massive highway. But she'd be welcome, just like everyone else, as long as she kept the focus off herself and on the bereaved and surviving community.
 
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