J. K. Rowling #2 JK and the Chamber of Mysogyny

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Trans women are women who have transitioned. Cis women are women who were born that gender


No, no and no again - women who are born women are WOMEN, this cis crap is something manufactured by trans activists who can't handle the truth and who seem to think they can call the shots. Well they can't, BIOLOGY calls the shots. That clear enough? If not how about enrolling in a biology course at your local college.
 
Here’s a very rough analogy I like to use re who is a woman and who is a man and the strawmans about fertility that come up time and time again etc:

Imagine women are boats and men are cars.

A boat may have holes in it. It may be missing its sail. It might not have been in the water for months. But it’s still a boat, isn’t it? We wouldn’t call it anything else. It still has way more in common with the “normal” boats than the cars.

A car can have its tires removed, it can be made waterproof and can be altered to float. You can put it in the water. But it’s not a boat - it’s still a car, even though it’s been altered to be more like a boat.

Maybe you’d call it a car boat? That would be fair enough. But it’s still not the same as the actual boats, even the ones missing their sails or that have holes.
 
But would you say if someone was intersex and they had surgery to be a woman that they aren’t a real woman? Because that’s the only thing stopping trans people from being a “real woman”

Not really. Female sex is more than just reproductive organs... it’s chromosomes, hormones, hormone receptors etc etc. ie it is the very fibre of her composition.

ANYWAY. I fell down a rabbit hole of lesbian YouTubers rallying against being called “queer” and ended up watching videos from a very rational, logical trans woman called Rose of Dawn. Has anyone else seen her videos?
 
I’ve not thrown them under the bus I have no idea what you mean by that? We are discussing gender and sex and they fall into it. If you don’t want to be cis don’t say cis but yo6 are. It’s like saying trans women aren’t real women

I object to the word cis, and do not feel that it is a word that has any relevance to me. I have only heard the word in the past couple of words and it has no meaning or relevance to me.
So if I chose to say I am not cis, you cannot say that I am! That is unfair to me. I am not a cis woman. Does this mean that I am not a woman at all?
 
I think we have reached a point in the discussion where we need to take stock, have a deep breath because this is turning into a cyclical debate vis a vis science vs feelings.

If someone genuinely believes gender reassignment surgery means that the person has actually changed sex and are 100% comparable biologically with someone born into that sex, I need to enquire of those that believe this: are, are you okay?

With such a display of a gargantuan ignorance of science and physical fact, you are trivialising gender politics by making it equivalent to bunkum theories such as flat earth and the one that Earth is 6,000 years old. In doing so, you come across as doing a great disservice to the trans side of this discussion by leaving them open to ridicule.

For example, I almost wet myself laughing when someone tried to blame “Big Paleo” and its demands for funding as an explanation for dinosaur bones, which means that even if someone raises even some pertinent point about the scientific reliability of certain dating methods, all I think of is that foolish person with Big Paleo, and ridicule is a higher mountain to climb than general scepticism.
 
It's only a matter of time before someone says "are you saying that women who don't have periods aren't real women"....
There was a discussion on a Facebook group I’m in that a young girl started. She wanted older women to give advice to younger women to help them and also try and make it less embarrassing for younger women - you know, get rid of the stigma. Anyway someone commented that we all had to be mindful because ‘it’s not only women who get periods’.

I wonder if FTM transgender people cause this much discussion for men?
 
“Cis” is absolutely ridiculous. Transwoman is a subgroup of woman, not cis woman and trans woman being equal pegging. Woman and Man are binary descriptors of reproductive, innate biological differences in sex.

Transwomen more often than not grow up as male with male biology and all that brings. They aren’t women. Reducing womanhood to being a costume is disgusting.
 
There was a discussion on a Facebook group I’m in that a young girl started. She wanted older women to give advice to younger women to help them and also try and make it less embarrassing for younger women - you know, get rid of the stigma. Anyway someone commented that we all had to be mindful because ‘it’s not only women who get periods’.

I wonder if FTM transgender people cause this much discussion for men?
annoying right? some people have no self-awareness at all. When we talk about BLM or increased racism against a certain group there's never the same amount of people going "let's remember x,y and z also face massive racism" because it's not the point/topic of discussion at the time.
 
If someone genuinely believes gender reassignment surgery means that the person has actually changed sex and are 100% comparable biologically with someone born into that sex, I need to enquire of those that believe this: are, are you okay?
And this is what I meant the other day when I said a lot of these people are not bright. I don’t mean that in a disparaging way. These are very difficult issues to get your head around if you aren’t very educated and I’m sure these people really genuinely hold these beliefs. ‘Transwomen have female brains it’s science’ ok, in that case I want to see a peer reviewed paper in a reputable journal like JAMA or The Lancet to back up those claims. Sick of people throwing this rubbish around unsubstantiated when anyone who works in science knows you don’t make an empirical claim like that without evidence. Unfortunately for me it’s also the law that people don’t understand and having degrees in science and law makes all of this especially annoying!


Interesting read. Seems like despite claims otherwise, negative attitudes towards trans people is low.
 
And this is what I meant the other day when I said a lot of these people are not bright. I don’t mean that in a disparaging way. These are very difficult issues to get your head around if you aren’t very educated and I’m sure these people really genuinely hold these beliefs. ‘Transwomen have female brains it’s science’ ok, in that case I want to see a peer reviewed paper in a reputable journal like JAMA or The Lancet to back up those claims. Sick of people throwing this rubbish around unsubstantiated when anyone who works in science knows you don’t make an empirical claim like that without evidence. Unfortunately for me it’s also the law that people don’t understand and having degrees in science and law makes all of this especially annoying!
some of these people who won't see the red flags of this are college educated with several degrees, the thing is they can't look past the "most oppressed class" qualifier and recognize there are some faults to this.
 
some of these people who won't see the red flags of this are college educated with several degrees, the thing is they can't look past the "most oppressed class" qualifier and recognize there are some faults to this.

Yes, it is my experience that many are intelligent people, they just refuse to look into the issue beyond surface level. Possibly because if they do, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down, and they no longer feel super liberal, accepting and “woke”.

Look at Rebecca Solnit’s mess of an article yesterday in The Guardian. A very intelligent woman, and yet her writing made it clear she hadn’t even researched the gender critical pov. She conflated sex and gender throughout the entire piece, hit all the usual TRA talking points that are based on nonsensical arguments (but INTERSEX!!) and also said some incredibly ironic things - the following was my personal favourite:

“Second wave feminism produced the classic 1972 children’s album Free to Be You and Me, which I’d like to point out was not titled Free to Be Me But I Get to Define You“

Hello, pot? Meet kettle!!
 
some of these people who won't see the red flags of this are college educated with several degrees, the thing is they can't look past the "most oppressed class" qualifier and recognize there are some faults to this.
Yes I agree, I don't think I was right in using the word 'educated' where I did. You can be educated in these issues without having a degree and I'm certainly not saying people who don't have degrees aren't bright enough to understand all this (I don't think degrees = intelligence for the avoidance of doubt) but the people you refer to rarely have degrees in relevant areas. Take Jolyon Maugham for example, clearly an intelligent man, but is forever being pulled up on his misinformation about legal areas he has no experience with. Some people get a degree and think that makes them experts in everything. And then I do think there are some people who are just incapable of understanding this stuff past the surface level 'oh noes transphobic bullies! the science!' whether they have a degree or not. I'm not convinced that undergraduate degrees these days actually teach you to think critically, but that's another story.

Yes, it is my experience that many are intelligent people, they just refuse to look into the issue beyond surface level. Possibly because if they do, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down, and they no longer feel super liberal, accepting and “woke”.

Look at Rebecca Solnit’s mess of an article yesterday in The Guardian. A very intelligent woman, and yet her writing made it clear she hadn’t even researched the gender critical pov. She conflated sex and gender throughout the entire piece, hit all the usual TRA talking points that are based on nonsensical arguments (but INTERSEX!!) and also said some incredibly ironic things - the following was my personal favourite:

“Second wave feminism produced the classic 1972 children’s album Free to Be You and Me, which I’d like to point out was not titled Free to Be Me But I Get to Define You“

Hello, pot? Meet kettle!!

That article was so poor. I'm not sure why it was even published.
 
Yes, it is my experience that many are intelligent people, they just refuse to look into the issue beyond surface level. Possibly because if they do, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down, and they no longer feel super liberal, accepting and “woke”.

Look at Rebecca Solnit’s mess of an article yesterday in The Guardian. A very intelligent woman, and yet her writing made it clear she hadn’t even researched the gender critical pov. She conflated sex and gender throughout the entire piece, hit all the usual TRA talking points that are based on nonsensical arguments (but INTERSEX!!) and also said some incredibly ironic things - the following was my personal favourite:

“Second wave feminism produced the classic 1972 children’s album Free to Be You and Me, which I’d like to point out was not titled Free to Be Me But I Get to Define You“

Hello, pot? Meet kettle!!

I think this is what carries the movement along, together with £££ and some sinister motives in the higher echelons (isn’t that always the way).

I mean one of the names I came across last night was Camille Paglia, university lecturer and who describes themselves as transgender, as liberal as they come and on paper looks a TRAs dream ally.

However, because she was critical of some trans rights, STUDENTS have demanded she be ostracised from her post. This is the tail wagging the dog, no?

She also comes out with some apocalyptic claims about civilisation which I can seeIs based in evidence tbh.

 
I think this is what carries the movement along, together with £££ and some sinister motives in the higher echelons (isn’t that always the way).

I mean one of the names I came across last night was Camille Paglia, university lecturer and who describes themselves as transgender, as liberal as they come and on paper looks a TRAs dream ally.

However, because she was critical of some trans rights, STUDENTS have demanded she be ostracised from her post. This is the tail wagging the dog, no?

She also comes out with some apocalyptic claims about civilisation which I can seeIs based in evidence tbh.


I think that I am one of the dopey, uneducated ones here. How is a lesbian woman transgender?
(Agree with her sentiments though)
 
I think that I am one of the dopey, uneducated ones here. How is a lesbian woman transgender?
(Agree with her sentiments though)

Really have no idea, unless she’s thinking of the “trans umbrella” which seems to claim various identities as their own in order to control the narrative. Have you heard of TRAPs? Essentially guys who want to look as feminine as possible but are happy with being men. TRAs insist that they should consider themselves trans 🙈 it’s a mess tbh.

 

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I think that I am one of the dopey, uneducated ones here. How is a lesbian woman transgender?
(Agree with her sentiments though)
If you're questioning all this stuff women are being told about ourselves, our identification, our bodies etc I'd say you're not dopey or uneducated at all tbh! It's the people who swallow it without thinking twice I give the hairy eyeball.

Really have no idea, unless she’s thinking of the “trans umbrella” which seems to claim various identities as their own in order to control the narrative. Have you heard of TRAPs? Essentially guys who want to look as feminine as possible but are happy with being men. TRAs insist that they should consider themselves trans 🙈 it’s a mess tbh.


I do think some of these people just think TOO much about themselves. Is it a form of narcissism? I genuinely have never sat down and thought about whether I feel like I'm female or whether I want to look so female or whatever. Sounds like they have a lot of spare time.
 
I do think some of these people just think TOO much about themselves. Is it a form of narcissism? I genuinely have never sat down and thought about whether I feel like I'm female or whether I want to look so female or whatever. Sounds like they have a lot of spare time.

I agree, I think like Paglia says, it’s rooted in a culture unravelling and on the verge of collapse. Too much introspection, passive permissions and self interest. Relative decadence of lifestyles mean kids in a sweet shop getting fat. When you look at the world today, which are the cultures and countries turning in on themselves? Which are the ones poised to control?
 
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