J. K. Rowling #2 JK and the Chamber of Mysogyny

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jewelkitty said:
So trans women are women and women are just cis women?

Yeah duck off with that.
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Trans women are women who have transitioned. Cis women are women who were born that gender

SqualorVictoria said:
As said above, intersex people in general don't appreciate being used as a prop for the trans ideology. They're not the same thing at all.

And you're not seriously comparing a woman who has had IVF because of difficulties conceiving to trans women?
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You haven’t answered the question though. Trans people go through difficulties too with black trans people life expectancy being only 35
 
Kittyglitter said:
But would you say if someone was intersex and they had surgery to be a woman that they aren’t a real woman? Because that’s the only thing stopping trans people from being a “real” woman. Would you say a woman who has to have ivf isn’t a real mum because she had to have surgery and treatment to give birth
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How is having ivf in any way the same as someone having gender reassignment surgery? A woman having ivf is not having bits of her body chopped off and reconstructed. She is still a woman and will become a mum. Fertility issues doesn’t make a woman any less of a woman. Bit of an odd comparison.

Im not even going to comment on your comments about intersex people.
Jesus Christ.
 
Bitofthebubbly said:
How is having ivf in any way the same as someone having gender reassignment surgery? A woman having ivf is not having bits of her body chopped off and reconstructed. She is still a woman and will become a mum. Fertility issues doesn’t make a woman any less of a woman. Bit of an odd comparison.

Im not even going to comment on your comments about intersex people.
Jesus Christ.
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Well people are saying trans people aren’t real women because they had to have surgery. So in their eyes ifv mums aren’t real mums because they had to have surgery
 
Kittyglitter said:
Well people are saying trans people aren’t real women because they had to have surgery. So in their eyes ifv mums aren’t real mums because they had to have surgery
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No, literally nobody thinks that about ivf mums. Not all surgery is the same or serves the same purpose.

Trans women aren’t ‘real women’ because they are born male and have Male chromosomes. That’s about the long and short of it.
 
jewelkitty said:
Trans women aren't real women not because they have to get surgery, they're not real women because they're born men.
IVF women are born women...
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I’m not saying they aren’t real women I’m saying they aren’t real mums

Bitofthebubbly said:
No, literally nobody thinks that about ivf mums. Not all surgery is the same or serves the same purpose.

Trans women aren’t ‘real women’ because they are born male and have Male chromosomes. That’s about the long and short of it.
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I didn’t say people think that. I said with this ideology people will think that
 
SqualorVictoria said:
Oh and I suppose they're didn't give birth to real babies either?

This is really the most ridiculous strawman argument I've ever seen.
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No both require surgery. You just all hate trans people

jewelkitty said:
Wowww seriously? That's an incredibly controversial and offensive opinion to hold
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I don’t hold this opinion. Please read my other post

Bitofthebubbly said:
But people with ‘this ideology’ don’t think that so you are incorrect. Your point isn’t even logical.
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I’m still waiting to be proved wrong all you said was no they are real mums. How if trans people are real women because of surgery
 
Kittyglitter said:
No both require surgery. You just all hate trans people


I don’t hold this opinion. Please read my other post


I’m still waiting to be proved wrong all you said was no they are real mums. How if trans people are real women because of surgery
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You can’t say “because of surgery” as if all surgery is exactly the same and carries the same risks. Ivf is not the same as gender reassignment, keyhole for hernia repair is not the same as a heart bypass etc etc. You haven’t actually proven anything with that point.

Cosmetic surgery, which is what gender reassignment is, doesn’t change someone’s biological sex.
 
Kittyglitter said:
Cis doesn’t mean “real” woman it just means you identify with the gender you were born with. It can also help with people who were born intersex. It’s so people stop saying trans women aren’t “real” women and that only people who were born female are real. You are cis not a real woman. If you don’t like being called cis don’t call yourself that but that’s what you are
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No it isn’t. I am a genuine woman, born female, have a cervix, periods, breasts, all of the bilogical attributes of womanhood. You cannot force me to redefine myself to fit somebody else’s agenda.
 
SqualorVictoria said:
It's only a matter of time before someone says "are you saying that women who don't have periods aren't real women"....
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already seen it

I think it would be helpfull for @Kittyglitter to go on twitter and look at what the transwomen and men who aren't let's say "extremists" are saying to see another pov. Acceptance for this has gone down partly because it's turning into a competition over who's a real woman and not there's women and trans women which I think more people were willing to accept. The biggest difference wether menopausal, sans period, with endo, fertility issues etc.. any of those women still belong to the female sex, whereas trans women are male.
 
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And sure the term "real" may hurt for people who have dysphoria, but that's what born females and males are, they're the feminine/women (manly/man for tms) ideal that tw's look at and want to be, the type they model themselves after when in transition and observing us in terms of makeup, mannerisms and the like. Born females are the real model they would want to be- at least that's what seems to be at the core of their dysphoria from what I gather on their posts. If everybody was just a woman plain and simple, why are their stories of them studying us in every way in order to better pass as us? what would be the point of transition?

jewelkitty said:
I've even seen some tweets go so far as to say trans woman are more 'real women' that 'cis' women because of how much they've had to go through to transition etc. They're more dedicated to being a woman, that kind of thing. :rolleyes:
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speaking from a place of insecurity, they have to reaffirm themselves in some ways since in the dating world for example they're not perceived how they want to be.
 
Kittyglitter said:
You haven’t answered the question though. Trans people go through difficulties too with black trans people life expectancy being only 35
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That statistic comes from a 2015 report by the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights. It looked at 594 murders over 15 months in which LGBTQ people were the victim and stated:

" In this Report, the IACHR also notes that pervasive violence, prejudice, and discrimination in society at large and within the family hinder trans women’s possibilities to access education, health care services, safe shelters, and the formal labor market. In turn, homelessness and exclusion from education and the formal labor market make trans persons more susceptible to diverse forms of violence. Violence against trans persons, particularly trans women, is the result of a combination of factors: exclusion, discrimination and violence within the family, regarding education, and in society at large; lack of recognition of their gender identity; involvement in occupations that put them at a higher risk for violence; and high rates of criminalization. Latin American organizations report that the life expectancy of trans women in the region is between 30 and 35 years of age. According to the data collected by the IACHR, 80% of trans persons killed during a 15-month period were 35 years of age or younger. The IACHR has received consistent reports showing that trans women who are sex workers are particularly vulnerable to community violence, including killings by individuals, their clients, illegal armed groups or gangs."

So (a) it's based on a pretty small sample of people (not all of those 594 victims were trans) and (b) it's looking, in the main, at countries where trans people are far less accepted than they are in the UK and a high proportion of them are involved in sex work, which is inherently dangerous in less-developed countries for people of all gender identities. If you want to read the full 284-page report, you can find it here: http://www.oas.org/en/iachr/reports/pdfs/ViolenceLGBTIPersons.pdf
 
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