J. K. Rowling #2 JK and the Chamber of Mysogyny

[creme.egg92]

No honey I say that because if they didn’t want to transition and get rid of their “tackle” they are not trans because they don’t have body dysmorphic which then makes you trans

Question: do you have an issue with people who do have penises and haven't medically transitioned using female changing rooms etc? Do you have an issue if we moved to a system whereby any random man can claim he is now female without changing his appearance at all, taking hormones, or seeking surgery?

If you think these two things are problematic, you are actually misinformed and you agree with us. I personally have no issues with fully medically transitioned people using female spaces. That isn't what we're talking about though and as someone else said - if you think 'trans' people are only the transitioned (which is IMO a reasonable position to take) you would be called transphobic by many of those people.

 

[jewelkitty]

Oh sorry yes I misread. I agree with that because of science and if they have no body dysmorphic they don’t need to transition and also takes away the seriousness of those with the disorder and also by them saying it’s not a mental illness means in some countries they can’t get the surgery free. If you watch kalvin garrah (I honestly can’t rememebr his last name) but he’s a trans man and discusses this in great detail

Honestly, I completely agree with you on all you just said. It's this new wave of trans activism that's just bleeping everyone off: women and genuine transgender people. It's harming both. I'll check this person out, cheers

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

No honey it’s been proven by science that transgender people do exist and it’s not a theory that female and males have different brains it has once again been proven by science. Yes they are trying to heal themselves by having surgery to have the right body as they have a mental disorder

Don’t call me ‘honey’.

Saying Male/female brain theory is hokum isn’t the same as saying trans people don’t exist. Of course they exist otherwise this thread wouldn’t exist.

Also you saying trans people have a mental disorder could land you in very hot water in the trans community. Many of them find it offensive to even suggest that they might have a mental illness.

 

[Mselvista]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but it seems what's most wrong about this is that this person only decided they're a woman once it was prison time for them.

The crime was committed when they were 17. The article, from 2018, says they were then 36.

Youngest dangerous offender gets DD breast implants

A convicted child molester who raped a three-month-old boy has undergone gender reassignment surgery — complete with DD breast implants, the Toronto Sun has learned.

torontosun.com

 

[Kittyglitter]

Question: do you have an issue with people who do have penises and haven't medically transitioned using female changing rooms etc? Do you have an issue if we moved to a system whereby any random man can claim he is now female without changing his appearance at all, taking hormones, or seeking surgery?

If you think these two things are problematic, you are actually misinformed and you agree with us. I personally have no issues with fully medically transitioned people using female spaces. That isn't what we're talking about though and as someone else said - if you think 'trans' people are only the transitioned (which is IMO a reasonable position to take) you would be called transphobic by many of those people.

In my eyes, if someone is trans they will try and pass as that gender meaning if they went into a lady changing room no one will be able to notice they are trans then I don’t really care. Obviously if someone who passes as a man walks in people will tell them they are in the wrong room. However many trans people try and pass without having surgery and I wouldn’t even notice or care. If someone says they are trans but still looks like their gender they were assigned at birth then comes in the concern

Honestly, I completely agree with you on all you just said. It's this new wave of trans activism that's just bleeping everyone off: women and genuine transgender people. It's harming both. I'll check this person out, cheers

If you search storm Ryan and then kalvin I’m sure he will come up then (storm Ryan is another trans man you might be interested in too)

 

[jewelkitty]

The crime was committed when they were 17. The article, from 2018, says they were then 36.

Youngest dangerous offender gets DD breast implants

A convicted child molester who raped a three-month-old boy has undergone gender reassignment surgery — complete with DD breast implants, the Toronto Sun has learned.

torontosun.com

Genuine question: do you think everyone deserves to be taken at their word?
This person raped a baby, and ate some of their own flesh.
Do you think they should be believed to be a real woman if they say so? Really?

 

[creme.egg92]

In my eyes, if someone is trans they will try and pass as that gender meaning if they went into a lady changing room no one will be able to notice they are trans then I don’t really care. Obviously if someone who passes as a man walks in people will tell them they are in the wrong room. However many trans people try and pass without having surgery and I wouldn’t even notice or care. If someone says they are trans but still looks like their gender they were assigned at birth then comes in the concern

Yes, quite. So it's quite suspicious that a man who claims to be female now makes no effort to change his appearance right? Because as you say, if someone is experiencing gender dysphoria, they don't want to look like a man anymore, right? And why might men who don't really want to change their appearance or body at all want access to spaces where women are changing and vulnerable?
Under self ID we cannot tell anyone who passes as a man they are in the wrong room. So we all share your concern on that and this is generally what we discuss. Honestly, I think you agree with us and maybe don't understand quite the level of trans demands these days. I have never seen anyone on here say that we don't think medically transitioned people should not be allowed in the other gender's spaces.

Genuine question: do you think everyone deserves to be taken at their word?
This person raped a baby, and ate some of their own flesh.
Do you think they should be believed to be a real woman if they say so? Really?

I can't begin to entertain the level of woman-hating it must take to think women should have to be locked up with this maniac on his say so. If he's happy to rape a baby god only knows what he would do to women. Tbh, it doesn't sound like he should be allowed near other men either, but at least they'd have a better chance of fighting him off.

 

[Kittyglitter]

Yes, quite. So it's quite suspicious that a man who claims to be female now makes no effort to change his appearance right? Because as you say, if someone is experiencing gender dysphoria, they don't want to look like a man anymore, right? And why might men who don't really want to change their appearance or body at all want access to spaces where women are changing and vulnerable?
Under self ID we cannot tell anyone who passes as a man they are in the wrong room. So we all share your concern on that and this is generally what we discuss. Honestly, I think you agree with us and maybe don't understand quite the level of trans demands these days. I have never seen anyone on here say that we don't think medically transitioned people should not be allowed in the other gender's spaces.



I can't begin to entertain the level of woman-hating it must take to think women should have to be locked up with this maniac on his say so. If he's happy to rape a baby god only knows what he would do to women. Tbh, it doesn't sound like he should be allowed near other men either, but at least they'd have a better chance of fighting him off.

Which countries do they have self id as I haven’t heard of them before. They may have them in England too but I’m just not aware of it. I disagree when people say they aren’t trans women aren’t women however for the most I agree

 

[creme.egg92]

Which countries do they have self id as I haven’t heard of them before. They may have them in England too but I’m just not aware of it. I disagree when people say they aren’t trans women aren’t women however for the most I agree

So far I think it's Ireland, Norway, Portugal, Belgium. Maybe others. I would recommend doing some research about it. The Tory government was planning to change the Gender Recognition Act here so that people could self ID, but those plans were recently reported to have been scrapped. However, last week in the news it was reported that Boris Johnson's girlfriend was pushing him to put self ID back on the table. So this is why we discuss this so much, because like you, we don't want it to be the case that any random guy can go into our spaces for dangerous purposes and we can't tell them to get out or have security remove them etc. I have genuinely never seen someone on here say they don't think transitioned people shouldn't be allowed into the changing rooms/toilets etc for their new gender. It's all these people who haven't medically transitioned or make any effort to present as their new gender we are concerned about because, as you say, it makes you question if there is really any gender dysphoria there or not. And if there isn't, you have to really question why they are so adamant to use spaces not designed for them.

 

[jewelkitty]

@Kittyglitter I've started watching a video from Kalvin Garrah and he says himself his videos are very much like Blaire White's.
Apparently she has some alt-right views which I don't agree with but most us have said we agree with her on her views of transgender issues.
I really think we're on the same side but you're just not very aware of this new wave of activism which declares that anyone who says they are the opposite gender is literally that gender. They also believe penises can be literal female reproductive organs because transwomen have them and they are women so therefore penises are female.

 

[Kittyglitter]

So far I think it's Ireland, Norway, Portugal, Belgium. Maybe others. I would recommend doing some research about it. The Tory government was planning to change the Gender Recognition Act here so that people could self ID, but those plans were recently reported to have been scrapped. However, last week in the news it was reported that Boris Johnson's girlfriend was pushing him to put self ID back on the table. So this is why we discuss this so much, because like you, we don't want it to be the case that any random guy can go into our spaces for dangerous purposes and we can't tell them to get out or have security remove them etc. I have genuinely never seen someone on here say they don't think transitioned people shouldn't be allowed into the changing rooms/toilets etc for their new gender. It's all these people who haven't medically transitioned or make any effort to present as their new gender we are concerned about because, as you say, it makes you question if there is really any gender dysphoria there or not. And if there isn't, you have to really question why they are so adamant to use spaces not designed for them.

I think instead of people changing it themselves the doctors should do it when the person is first starting to transition

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

So a quick google of “do you need dysphoria to be trans” brings up this. To me it makes no sense.

 

[creme.egg92]

I think instead of people changing it themselves the doctors should do it when the person is first starting to transition

Yes, so at the moment someone has to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria etc by doctors to be able to transition and change their legal gender. We want it to stay that way. Trans people don't like this because they think they shouldn't need a medical professional to validate their identity, and they say that self ID would make it easier for them to transition. Under the new self ID proposals, you wouldn't need any diagnosis of anything so anyone could legally change their gender by their say so. This means you wouldn't have to have started any hormones or surgery or anything at all to be legally registered as a different gender, and for the reasons we've just discussed, we don't want this to happen.

 

[Kittyglitter]

@Kittyglitter I've started watching a video from Kalvin Garrah and he says himself his videos are very much like Blaire White's.
Apparently she has some alt-right views which I don't agree with but most us have said we agree with her on her views of transgender issues.
I really think we're on the same side but you're just not very aware of this new wave of activism which declares that anyone who says they are the opposite gender is literally that gender. They also believe penises can be literal female reproductive organs because transwomen have them and they are women so therefore penises are female.

I admit it’s a very hard subject to discuss and I do think people talk for trans people rather letting trans people speak for themselves. I think the line between being trans and being androgynous has thinned which is very dangerous for trans people as they then don’t get taken seriously. I think people can do what they want if they don’t harm other people so I think you have to be careful that your own actions don’t affect those who have body and gender dysmorphic. Like Kalvin doesn’t want to be taken as a joke and someone who’s playing dress up and I think it’s mostly young teenagers as I know people who when younger was confused about their gender but didn’t tell people they were trans when they weren’t and I think that’s what people are doing. Saying they are trans when being trans is w very serious thing that ruins so many peoples life’s from being murdered to suicide

 

[creme.egg92]

I admit it’s a very hard subject to discuss and I do think people talk for trans people rather letting trans people speak for themselves. I think the line between being trans and being androgynous has thinned which is very dangerous for trans people as they then don’t get taken seriously. I think people can do what they want if they don’t harm other people so I think you have to be careful that your own actions don’t affect those who have body and gender dysmorphic. Like Kalvin doesn’t want to be taken as a joke and someone who’s playing dress up and I think it’s mostly young teenagers as I know people who when younger was confused about their gender but didn’t tell people they were trans when they weren’t and I think that’s what people are doing. Saying they are trans when being trans is w very serious thing that ruins so many peoples life’s from being murdered to suicide

This is all true, but equally important for young people is that we don't push them towards being trans. Sometimes little boys like pink and Barbie, and they are now being told they must be trans because of it. The result of that means kids get confused about gender and upset that they aren't conforming, when the reality is it does not matter at all if a boy likes pink. When these kids are then pushed towards Mermaids etc they're being stuck on puberty blockers and all other kinds of experimental harmful stuff. The NHS has only recently changed their guidance to say 'puberty blockers are not reversible' which means there are lots of children who have been treated as an unwilling experiment subject, we have no idea what will happen to their bodies later down the line now. So there is definitely a balance between helping people who experience genuine gender dysphoria and treating them appropriately and also making sure we aren't worrying little children unnecessarily about things that are normal and fine such that they end up feeling like they must change gender. You might be interested to search for people who have detransitioned who have interesting stories similar to this, also sometimes they are children who would end up realising they are gay or lesbian later in their lives but their parents have pushed them towards transitioning. I believe the Tavistock recently reported that they have a lot of parents who bring children in saying 'I dont want him to be gay' etc, some of this is just straight up homophobia. It is all very, very complicated.

 

[jewelkitty]

I admit it’s a very hard subject to discuss and I do think people talk for trans people rather letting trans people speak for themselves. I think the line between being trans and being androgynous has thinned which is very dangerous for trans people as they then don’t get taken seriously. I think people can do what they want if they don’t harm other people so I think you have to be careful that your own actions don’t affect those who have body and gender dysmorphic. Like Kalvin doesn’t want to be taken as a joke and someone who’s playing dress up and I think it’s mostly young teenagers as I know people who when younger was confused about their gender but didn’t tell people they were trans when they weren’t and I think that’s what people are doing. Saying they are trans when being trans is w very serious thing that ruins so many peoples life’s from being murdered to suicide

Yes it is a very tricky area to navigate but there has to be a discussion, and it can't be shut down at the first sight of a deviation from the dogma.
I agree people shouldn't be speaking for trans people, both on our side and on their side - i.e. "allies," because this is doing so much harm to trans people and society's attitudes towards trans people. I completely agree that adults with gender dysphoria who have transitioned or make a genuine effort to "pass" should be treated with respect and be allowed into that gender's spaces. But other people are saying that any obvious man who dons a dress and some terribly applied lipstick is literally a woman. And yes this is what is unfortunately causing people to turn against trans people. I really think the key to this is the difference between the "transcum or transmed" and the "trucute" communities.

 

[Kittyglitter]

This is all true, but equally important for young people is that we don't push them towards being trans. Sometimes little boys like pink and Barbie, and they are now being told they must be trans because of it. The result of that means kids get confused about gender and upset that they aren't conforming, when the reality is it does not matter at all if a boy likes pink. When these kids are then pushed towards Mermaids etc they're being stuck on puberty blockers and all other kinds of experimental harmful stuff. The NHS has only recently changed their guidance to say 'puberty blockers are not reversible' which means there are lots of children who have been treated as an unwilling experiment subject, we have no idea what will happen to their bodies later down the line now. So there is definitely a balance between helping people who experience genuine gender dysphoria and treating them appropriately and also making sure we aren't worrying little children unnecessarily about things that are normal and fine such that they end up feeling like they must change gender. You might be interested to search for people who have detransitioned who have interesting stories similar to this, also sometimes they are children who would end up realising they are gay or lesbian later in their lives but their parents have pushed them towards transitioning. I believe the Tavistock recently reported that they have a lot of parents who bring children in saying 'I dont want him to be gay' etc, some of this is just straight up homophobia. It is all very, very complicated.

I had to study this for my counselling course and if I remember correctly there is a girl who tried or did sue the nhs because they pushed her to transition when she was younger and then realised she wasn’t trans. I feel like being trans is like becoming like I always clean I have ocd or I have anxiety because I get nervous and the only people who suffer from this are the people who have the illness. I know some people go to therapy for gender dysmorphic but then discover they don’t have it for example a girl was sexual harassed when younger so rejected her female body and didn’t want curves or boobs because of it so she wouldn’t be harassed anymore however this made her think she was trans

 

[Lanavalentine]

No honey I say that because if they didn’t want to transition and get rid of their “tackle” they are not trans because they don’t have body dysmorphic which then makes you trans

you need to go research what is considered trans now. It’s anyone who identifies as such.

Your own view is considered transphobic, I’m afraid.

 

[Kittyglitter]

Yes it is a very tricky area to navigate but there has to be a discussion, and it can't be shut down at the first sight of a deviation from the dogma.
I agree people shouldn't be speaking for trans people, both on our side and on their side - i.e. "allies," because this is doing so much harm to trans people and society's attitudes towards trans people. I completely agree that adults with gender dysphoria who have transitioned or make a genuine effort to "pass" should be treated with respect and be allowed into that gender's spaces. But other people are saying that any obvious man who dons a dress and some terribly applied lipstick is literally a woman. And yes this is what is unfortunately causing people to turn against trans people. I really think the key to this is the difference between the "transcum or transmed" and the "trucute" communities.

I hardly see trans people speak on the topic and when they do speak about themselves and their suffering they have to indicate that they are trans. I repeat what other trans people have said and what science has said about the subject

 

[jewelkitty]

I had to study this for my counselling course and if I remember correctly there is a girl who tried or did sue the nhs because they pushed her to transition when she was younger and then realised she wasn’t trans. I feel like being trans is like becoming like I always clean I have ocd or I have anxiety because I get nervous and the only people who suffer from this are the people who have the illness. I know some people go to therapy for gender dysmorphic but then discover they don’t have it for example a girl was sexual harassed when younger so rejected her female body and didn’t want curves or boobs because of it so she wouldn’t be harassed anymore however this made her think she was trans

That's a good point you make about OCD and anxiety. I have OCD but didn't realise it or get the help I needed for a long time because the public perception of OCD made me never even think that OCD was what was "wrong" with me. So everyone thinks they have OCD but then people who really have it and need help don't get it.
Now everyone thinks they're trans and have diluted transgenderism to such a meaningless concept that people who genuinely are transgender find it harder to get the help, respect and acceptance they need and deserve.

I hardly see trans people speak on the topic and when they do speak about themselves and their suffering they have to indicate that they are trans. I repeat what other trans people have said and what science has said about the subject

Yeah this Blaire White youtuber says she constantly gets accused of not being trans because her views deviate from this new extreme cult of trans.
Buck Angel is another trans man who I like to listen to; he's very rational and reasonable about everything.