Gender Discussion #69

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maytoseptember said:
Mate, are you being deliberately obtuse, over and over, on purpose?

If Khelif has XY chromosomes, then they are a male with a DSD. It doesn’t matter that Khelif was wrongly assigned female at birth. It doesn’t matter what Khelif identifies as. It’s not about “be kind” or trans issues or anything.

In matters of fairness and safety and basic scientific fact, if Khelif has XY chromosomes then he’s a male with a DSD. Not a female with a DSD.

Do you follow? Genuine question, not being sarcastic.
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@Veronicaaa follows.

@Veronicaaa is being deliberately arsey.
 
JAR21 said:
@Veronicaaa Right, I've found it for you:




And this which was posted earlier:

womenssportspolicy.org

Q27. What-If Any-Is The Relationship Between DSD/Intersex And Trans Athletes? - Women's Sports Policy Working Group

A27. Intersex conditions result from differences in biological sex development. They are also known as differences of sex development or DSDs. There are many different intersex conditions, but those that are relevant for sport all involve biological males – individuals with an XY karyotype...
womenssportspolicy.org womenssportspolicy.org
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None of this explains why they aren't described as women with DSDs. They just jump straight to the conclusion that if you have a DSD you're a man.
 
Haveyouanywool said:
I’ve just heard on the radio she’s been boxing as a female for years though. So… it’s been her life really…but my sympathy or not (for a person with a medical condition) isn’t going to make much difference so…as I’ve already said, if she’s XY she shouldn’t be fighting women.
My son’s work colleague is a female to male (transitioning) transsexual which I have no problem with. It’s the heightened and inflammatory rhetoric about it all that I find concerning.
One of my sons is gay, and I know he’s getting a bit concerned as things are always classed as LGBTQ etc.
It’s disquieting to me, and him, at times.
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Yes, I feel for Imane in losing what is a life’s work. But the time to grieve and accept it has long passed. I also feel for the women who have lost their chance to qualify, or to win a medal because of unfair competition. I’m not picking on you but I wondered at your wording of saying your son’s colleague is a transsexual. Is that how he refers to himself? If not he’d probably be offended to be called such. Again into the minefield of having to second guess how someone wants to be addressed. I’ve had enough of that. Your son who is gay probably feels it a bit too, gay people can’t even celebrate Pride now without it being taken over by TQIA+++++.
 
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Veronicaaa said:
Thanks MooBelle but it's OK, some people here are very rude and it's just not for me.
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You're just throwing contrary opinions about without substance and asking others to explain why they think you're wrong. That isn't debate.

People have responded to pretty much all of your posts with resources, quotes, and well reasoned and fully explained thoughts. You have not done so in return, you have just offered further questions (or the same question worded differently) and your opinions without any context as to how you reached that conclusion, to a group of people that you know already have an opposing firm opinion on the matter.
 
What is most heartbreaking is women who won't support or protect other women from 2 boxers who are obviously men with xy chromosomes. We've all grown up with misogyny which we expect from men but it so much harder to accept when it comes from a woman & those women seem to be everywhere.

How will we protect our daughters when we know some of our 'sisters' will turn their backs on them.
 
WonkeyDonkey said:
What is most heartbreaking is women who won't support or protect other women from 2 boxers who are obviously men with xy chromosomes. We've all grown up with misogyny which we expect from men but it so much harder to accept when it comes from a woman & those women seem to be everywhere.

How will we protect our daughters when we know some of our 'sisters' will turn their backs on them.
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It really is. I feel genuinely upset and quite despairing at how common this is.
 
Veronicaaa said:
None of this explains why they aren't described as women with DSDs. They just jump straight to the conclusion that if you have a DSD you're a man.
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Women with DSDs = people with DSDs who do not have a Y chromosome (except people with Swyer syndrome, who have XY chromosomes but also a uterus and don’t respond to testosterone)
Men with DSDs = people with DSDs with a Y chromosome.
 
Veronicaaa said:
None of this explains why they aren't described as women with DSDs. They just jump straight to the conclusion that if you have a DSD you're a man.
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Are you being diberately obtuse? The article (and tweet thread) is explicitly talking about DSDs affecting males.

They're not described as women because they are male. Why would they be described as women?

DSDs can affect females, but it's not really relevant to this discussion.
 
nothanksbabes said:
Are you being diberately obtuse? The article (and tweet thread) is explicitly talking about DSDs affecting males.

They're not described as women because they are male. Why would they be described as women?

DSDs can affect females, but it's not really relevant to this discussion.
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I think this is what is causing the confusion.

A man can be born with DSD but is still male with XY chromosomes.

A woman can be born with DSD but is still female with XX chromosomes.

It's only complicated if you overthink it.
 
Ilovemusic said:
Oh ffs.
Women CANNOT have XY chromosones. Scientific and biological fact: XY = MALE. XX = FEMALE. No ifs, no buts.
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We don't even really know if she has XY chromosome or if she has a higher testosterone levels. Even is she has the fact that she was born with a vagina, a uterus, a womb, has periods and can carry a child counts for nothing? Because for years all I've heard that all these things were intrinsic aspects of being female. No ifs, no buts.
 
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