Winter Love Island 2023 #4

Which team?

  • Olivia

    Votes: 271 55.3%

  • Zara

    Votes: 85 17.3%

  • Don't care

    Votes: 134 27.3%
  • Total voters
    490
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Immi290 said:
I think race is bought into it when people call black women aggressive when they share an opinion. There's a history of black women being called aggressive. But I wasn't trying to "make it a race thing"
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It is definitely a race thing. Unfortunately people on here and most of social media won't admit it because half of them don't see why it would be. For a lot of people, they don't see how calling Zara aggressive but referring to women like Faye, Ekin, Maura, Olivia etc as fiery or fiesty is not a microagression. It's often very normal for the first word to come to their mind when a WOC is raises her voice just a tad bit to be aggressive. Remember Teddy referring to Kaz as being agro after her argument with Teddy? While never ever once using that same word with Faye even though she was screaming at everyone?

You don't have like Zara. She has definitely had some questionable moments. But there comes a fine line between that and then just going at her because everyone else is doing the same thing.

Do I think she's possessive of Tom? 100% but is Tom also sending hella mixed signals? Of cause he is. Everyone else is so quick to dismiss her feelings in there because once again, WOC should be seen as strong women. When she cries, she gets dragged and no one seems to comfort her. When Olivia or any other white woman cries, everyone rushes to their aid.

It's very uncomfortable to watch but unfortunately alot of people won't see anything wrong with what happens during that episode because it was happening to Zara and not anyone else.
 
Bayday said:
It is definitely a race thing. Unfortunately people on here and most of social media won't admit it because half of them don't see why it would be. For a lot of people, they don't see how calling Zara aggressive but referring to women like Faye, Ekin, Maura, Olivia etc as fiery or fiesty is not a microagression. It's often very normal for the first word to come to their mind when a WOC is raises her voice just a tad bit to be aggressive. Remember Teddy referring to Kaz as being agro after her argument with Teddy? While never ever once using that same word with Faye even though she was screaming at everyone?

You don't have like Zara. She has definitely had some questionable moments. But there comes a fine line between that and then just going at her because everyone else is doing the same thing.

Do I think she's possessive of Tom? 100% but is Tom also sending hella mixed signals? Of cause he is. Everyone else is so quick to dismiss her feelings in there because once again, WOC should be seen as strong women. When she cries, she gets dragged and no one seems to comfort her. When Olivia or any other white woman cries, everyone rushes to their aid.

It's very uncomfortable to watch but unfortunately alot of people won't see anything wrong with what happens during that episode because it was happening to Zara and not anyone else.
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A lot of people called Faye aggressive. I did. Faye was aggressive.

Zara is aggressive because she's shouting over people, she spent 10 minutes shouting bruv at liv. She's not calling out she's fighting and shouting. She's trying to intimidate in her arguments, as Faye did, which is aggressive behaviour. Its nothing to so with race.

I appreciate that often WOC can get called aggressive when they are speaking up. But Zara is behaving aggressively. That's not speaking up or standing up for yourself. She's possessive towards Tom, she won't let other people speak to him, she shouts people down. She makes passive aggressive faces left right and centre. None of that is speaking up for yourself.

I don't agree Zara should be isolated, i have said that in my posts, but her behaviour is hard to deal with.
 
I don’t disagree about the points people have raised here about race and aggression. I do think that happens unfortunately.

However, Zara is unfortunately coming across aggressively in her behaviour. I’m all for people voicing their opinions, calling shit out etc but there’s a way to do it and it’s how she’s doing it which is coming across as aggressive.
She talks over people, she raises her voice, she speaks with an attitude which almost always starts on the defence.
For example, when she quizzed Olivia about what her and Tom had just spoken about. Despite it not really being her place to ask, she decided to do this in front of everyone, without easing into it and her tone was already as if she was spoiling for an argument. If she’d have taken Olivia (or even Tom) to one side and asked, explaining she felt a bit worried then people wouldn’t think she was being aggressive.

Likewise, when she took Tom aside to ask why he’d not spoken to her - absolutely valid btw but she would barely let him speak and her tone again, was argumentative. It could be that is just her tone in general but it’s hard to have a conversation with a person who you think is always spoiling for an argument.

I don’t particularly like Zara but I don’t want to see everyone isolating her. Likewise, her behaviour has been questionable and I do think she’s being OTT with Tom which isn’t ok. He isn’t helping it though.

I also think Olivia is pretty sly. She is more manipulative of the situation and because of how Zara does carry herself, she automatically comes off looking worse which is a bit unfair.
 
IGiveUp22 said:
I don’t disagree about the points people have raised here about race and aggression. I do think that happens unfortunately.

However, Zara is unfortunately coming across aggressively in her behaviour. I’m all for people voicing their opinions, calling shit out etc but there’s a way to do it and it’s how she’s doing it which is coming across as aggressive.
She talks over people, she raises her voice, she speaks with an attitude which almost always starts on the defence.
For example, when she quizzed Olivia about what her and Tom had just spoken about. Despite it not really being her place to ask, she decided to do this in front of everyone, without easing into it and her tone was already as if she was spoiling for an argument. If she’d have taken Olivia (or even Tom) to one side and asked, explaining she felt a bit worried then people wouldn’t think she was being aggressive.

Likewise, when she took Tom aside to ask why he’d not spoken to her - absolutely valid btw but she would barely let him speak and her tone again, was argumentative. It could be that is just her tone in general but it’s hard to have a conversation with a person who you think is always spoiling for an argument.

I don’t particularly like Zara but I don’t want to see everyone isolating her. Likewise, her behaviour has been questionable and I do think she’s being OTT with Tom which isn’t ok. He isn’t helping it though.

I also think Olivia is pretty sly. She is more manipulative of the situation and because of how Zara does carry herself, she automatically comes off looking worse which is a bit unfair.
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Thanks for the explanation
 
Giraffee95 said:
A lot of people called Faye aggressive. I did. Faye was aggressive.

Zara is aggressive because she's shouting over people, she spent 10 minutes shouting bruv at liv. She's not calling out she's fighting and shouting. She's trying to intimidate in her arguments, as Faye did, which is aggressive behaviour. Its nothing to so with race.
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Shouting bruv for 10 minutes where? Did I miss an episode? She literally said "playing a game how bruv". Neither her nor Olivia were even shouting at each other during that conversation so I'm very confused as to where this is coming from?

I think you are deliberately ignoring my point regarding the word aggressive. You called Faye aggressive? Thanks for being a decent human being. However alot of people didn't. My entire point was that whenever an argument or disagreement breaks out involving a POC, the first word people use is that the person is being aggressive. They don't use words like fiery or fiesty but rather aggressive and the reason for that needs to be unpacked (not on here obviously).

I am not denying that Zara was being aggressive, that was never the issue. My issue has just been the treatment of Zara. Not just from the public but from the islanders as well. Especially regarding certain wording used
 
Bayday said:
Shouting bruv for 10 minutes where? Did I miss an episode? She literally said "playing a game how bruv". Neither her nor Olivia were even shouting at each other during that conversation so I'm very confused as to where this is coming from?

I think you are deliberately ignoring my point regarding the word aggressive. You called Faye aggressive? Thanks for being a decent human being. However alot of people didn't. My entire point was that whenever an argument or disagreement breaks out involving a POC, the first word people use is that the person is being aggressive. They don't use words like fiery or fiesty but rather aggressive and the reason for that needs to be unpacked (not on here obviously).

I am not denying that Zara was being aggressive, that was never the issue. My issue has just been the treatment of Zara. Not just from the public but from the islanders as well. Especially regarding certain wording used
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not to mention ppl love faye and she literally got 3rd place 💀
 
Someone along the way has said “it’s definitely to do with race” - I quite adamantly refuse to be called a racist because of my opinion on Zara’s behaviour. Yes, I understand that sometimes this does happen but in this instance, I am not a racist and I feel like my points are valid. I think her actions and decisions are irrational. As a woman who has seen DV all my life and in my previous relationship, I now am aware of the main signs. Faye was aggressive in her manner. Maura and Ekin-Su weren’t and to compare Faye with those two is mind blowing tbh. Ekin Su and Maura were sassy but they definitely never came across as aggressive.

Zara was in the villa 2 days and she decided to have a go at Olivia in front of several people and intimidate her because she had a conversation with Tom. She demanded she knew what they spoke about. She could have dealt with this situation in a much better way. Olivia had every right to talk to him if she wanted, Zara stole him from her the night before and she probably had things to talk about, but it really wasn’t any of Zara’s business. She has an intimidating tone when she speaks to people.
She has been screaming and shouting over everyone from the minute she walked in and anyone that even tries to give her advice or support - she doesn’t want to know. She still is giving it large. If someone spoke to me like that after me trying to help them, I’d distance myself as well.
Tanya was there for her after the Olivia thing and she distanced herself after that because the next day, she went after Shaq but it’s not okay for Tom to talk to other people… how dare he.
How dare Tom walk in front of her and then her tell him off for it.
She’s constantly giving looks, daggers and following Tom around the villa with her eyes to see where he is and who he is with at all times. She’s possessive and controlling which is a form of abuse in a relationship. She shows mannerisms which are trying to “claim” Tom like wrapping herself around him, exactly like what Luca did with Gemma. Everyone on this thread, Twitter, Instagram etc gave him dogs abuse for because he was trying to “claim his property”. These are all red flags and the behaviour is unacceptable. If it was a lad we’d all be going mental on here. But because it’s a woman, and she’s a WOC, we’re supposed to gloss over it and say it’s okay. It happens to men and women too all over the world regardless of their race.

I obviously don’t think it’s ok to single people out and make them feel isolated. But if I was in that villa , I’d be trying to stay clear of her because I wouldn’t be bothered with her constant tantrums.

Tom obviously did not help with the game last night as no one wants to be picked for their body and that’s fine. I understand how that is upsetting but there has been PLENTY of other reasons before last nights episode on how her behaviour is not on.
 
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queenbees said:
Someone along the way has said “it’s definitely to do with race” - I quite adamantly refuse to be called a racist because of my opinion on Zara’s behaviour. Yes, I understand that sometimes this does happen but in this instance, I am not a racist and I feel like my points are fairly valid. I think her actions and decisions are irrational. As a woman who has seen DV all my life and in my previous relationship, I now am aware of the main signs. Faye was aggressive in her manner. Maura and Ekin-Su weren’t and to compare Faye with those two is mind blowing tbh. Ekin Su and Maura were sassy but they definitely never came across as aggressive.

Zara was in the villa 2 days and she decided to have a go at Olivia in front of several people and intimidate her because she had a conversation with Tom. She demanded she knew what they spoke about. She could have dealt with this situation in a much better way. Olivia had every right to talk to him if she wanted, Zara stole him from her the night before and she probably had things to talk about, but it really wasn’t any of Zara’s business. She has an intimidating tone when she speaks to people.
She has been screaming and shouting over everyone from the minute she walked in and anyone that even tries to give her advice or support - she doesn’t want to know. She still is giving it large. If someone spoke to me like that after me trying to help them, I’d distance myself as well.
Tanya was there for her after the Olivia thing and she distanced herself after that because the next day, she went after Shaq but it’s not okay for Tom to talk to other people… how dare he.
How dare Tom walk in front of her and then her tell him off for it.
She’s constantly giving looks, daggers and following Tom around the villa with her eyes to see where he is and who he is with at all times. She’s possessive and controlling which is a form of abuse in a relationship. She shows mannerisms which are trying to “claim” Tom like wrapping herself around him, exactly like what Luca did with Gemma. Everyone on this thread, Twitter, Instagram etc gave him dogs abuse for because he was trying to “claim his property”. These are all red flags and the behaviour is unacceptable. If it was a lad we’d all be going mental on here. But because it’s a woman, and she’s a WOC, we’re supposed to gloss over it and say it’s okay. It happens to men too all over the world.

I obviously don’t think it’s ok to single people out and make them feel isolated. But if I was in that villa , I’d be trying to stay clear of her because I wouldn’t be bothered with her constant tantrums.

Tom obviously did not help with the game last night as no one wants to be picked for their body and that’s fine. I understand how that is upsetting but there has been PLENTY of other reasons before last nights episode on how her behaviour is not on.
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This.
I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s 100% to do with race when it definitely is not. And I say that as a POC
 
Tom is a wet wipe.
I'm certainly not racist and quite a few of them are a nightmare but Zara is coming across as a pain in the ass. In last night's episode she was giving off to him for walking too fast, I mean all these people have only known each other less than two weeks.
 
Faye never felt isolated from the girls. Even at her worst she always had someone whereas there’s a pack mentality in there that Zara is lesser than everyone else and anytime anyone has a go at her they get approval from the rest via a laugh, nod etc. Tom is the only one who seemed to genuinely like her so I get why she’s clingy now.

I don’t agree withhow she handles it. I don’t think she’s right I just really don’t like some of the others here and the school yard tactics toward her.
 
Laika1234 said:
Faye never felt isolated from the girls. Even at her worst she always had someone whereas there’s a pack mentality in there that Zara is lesser than everyone else and anytime anyone has a go at her they get approval from the rest via a laugh, nod etc. Tom is the only one who seemed to genuinely like her so I get why she’s clingy now.

I don’t agree withhow she handles it. I don’t think she’s right I just really don’t like some of the others here and the school yard tactics toward her.
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I get what you mean, but I think the girls were absolutely terrified of Faye. Remember when Chloe tried to say something and backtracked. I don’t think any of them speak to her now.
 
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