Two sets of twins killed in fire- mum arrested for neglect

1
Scorpihoe said:
If she was “fairly well off” why was her house cold? Why were the kids wearing coats to bed?
Click to expand...

Thankyou!! I think some people just don't have a clue of what it likes to live in the real world.
It's as if we forget that situations can change. Covid showed us that no one was safe when it came to finances or struggling. I'm not making this about covid but seriously.
 
Having read a bit more I wanted to add that having worked on cases where kids are abused and neglected etc, it really varies how much they tell the other parent when there’s shared care. It might be hard to believe the Dad had no idea they were that cold but the Mum may have said don’t tell your Dad or he’ll be sad, they might have just been quiet kids who didn’t say much. If the parents are on good terms as well IME they don’t ask kids ‘how was your time at other parent’s house?’ etc, generalising here but that’s usually/often where the parents are on bad terms or one doesn’t trust the other parent. If the Dad had no reason to question Mum’s parenting he might have just not asked and the kids feasibly may not have volunteered that information either.

Even if the kids had told Dad they were cold then honestly without living there himself there’s not much he can do about it. He could have spoken to Mum about it and she said the kids were making it up, she could’ve become angry that he was questioning her parenting and refused to discuss it, he could’ve offered to pay heating and she spent the money on something else. Shared care and responsibility can only extend so far.

Anyway this is a very long winded way of saying I don’t think it’s fair to apportion any blame to Dad here based on what is currently known.I imagine Dad is completely devastated and will spend the rest of his life either beating himself up because he ‘should have known’ or that he didn’t do more if he did know. I really feel for him and all other members of their family.
 
From what I've read on the earlier posts the dad had new children. It's also been noted that he was fighting to see his kids. Abusers or deadbeat parents often fight to see their kids to control/spite their ex. I'm not saying this man is abusive, I'm just saying that nothing is ever as it seems.

This mum might have been disruptive and petty and stopped him seeing the kids because he moved on (as stated in an earlier post). Or she might have been asking for help and not getting any where. Either way this is a senseless tradegy that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. The only people I feel desperately sorry for were those poor vulnerable innocent brothers who didn't deserve to die such a horrific death.
 
Warriorqueen said:
No Brenda, I think people were waiting to hear the full facts. I have never left either of my boys and never will but I possess empathy and an ability to TRY and walk someone else’s shoes before I pass judgement without being in receipt of all the facts. Knowing what I know now, she can rot. And she was a stoner, if anyone else wanted to know that as an extra piece of information. She smoked a LOT of weed.

just to clarify once more with feeling I do not need to be told NOT to leave my children.


It’s bail
Click to expand...
No one said you needed to be told not to leave your kids? Not sure why you’ve replied with such an aggy comment tbh.
 
edwardszara said:
From what I've read on the earlier posts the dad had new children. It's also been noted that he was fighting to see his kids. Abusers or deadbeat parents often fight to see their kids to control/spite their ex. I'm not saying this man is abusive, I'm just saying that nothing is ever as it seems.

This mum might have been disruptive and petty and stopped him seeing the kids because he moved on (as stated in an earlier post). Or she might have been asking for help and not getting any where. Either way this is a senseless tradegy that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. The only people I feel desperately sorry for were those poor vulnerable innocent brothers who didn't deserve to die such a horrific death.
Click to expand...
Yeah he has 2 babies with his new girlfriend. Imagine having 6 kids in 4 years ?!
 
edwardszara said:
What!!! Are you for real.

How do you know that she received child support. It's notoriously difficult to receive. Even if you do receive it there's no guarantee you actually see it. Reviews, parents who magically quit work. Or worse the ones who deliberately ensure that they stay on benefits so the mother can receive a very low amount and then the dad gets cash in hand.

If she's a carer the harsh truth is she would have been making minimum wage. Topped up with universal credit. She would have had extra money but not anything to shout about.

The majority of people are struggling right now prices have risen in every which way. These are the working people who tend to be "slightly better off".

I can't imagine that a single mum with 4 kids and in such a minimum wage job would be earning a lot of money. Even if she did have money she would be on a tight budget.

I'm not excusing this woman but don't be so narrow minded to assume you know her financial situation. Any person with kids to feed and can't heat up their home needs help. They need family to ask "are they ok for things." If people are keeping an eye out and being supportive they'll start to build a pic that the mum isn't managing her money very well. To me it seems this woman had limited support or didn't utilise it, as so far in the news I've yet to hear from her side of the family.
Click to expand...

The bottom line is being a struggling single mum on Universal Credit (whether she is or isn't) is no excuse to leave 4 toddlers on their own for two hours in a freezing cold house. I know a few single mums on benefits (my sister being one) who are disgusted anyone would do that.

There seems to be this weird narrative where people try to excuse or find reasoning behind neglect or poor decisions because there is an element of "struggling, single mother on benefits". It's bullshit and I'm over hearing of babies dying every week at the moment because of poor parenting.
 
Last edited:
PrincessP said:
The bottom line is being a struggling single mum on Universal Credit (whether she is or isn't) is no excuse to leave 4 toddlers on their own for two hours in a freezing cold house. I know a few single mums on benefits (my sister being one) who are disgusted anyone would do that.

There seems to be this weird narrative where people try to excuse or find reasoning behind neglect or poor decisions because there is an element of "struggling, single mother on benefits". It's bullshit and I'm over hearing of babies dying every week at the moment because of poor parenting.
Click to expand...
Hear bloody hear 👏 there is no excuse for leaving those babies alone and cold. The bar for parenting seems very low these days, so many of these cases it's deplorable.
 
PrincessP said:
The bottom line is being a struggling single mum on Universal Credit (whether she is or isn't) is no excuse to leave 4 toddlers on their own for two hours in a freezing cold house. I know a few single mums on benefits (my sister being one) who are disgusted anyone would do that.

There seems to be this weird narrative where people try to excuse or find reasoning behind neglect or poor decisions because there is an element of "struggling, single mother on benefits". It's bullshit and I'm over hearing of babies dying every week at the moment because of poor parenting.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to excuse her actions or paint a narrative that she what she done was justified. This was in response to the person who said she should be "fairly well off" because she gets money. It just seemed such a basic response.

I've lost a job and have been that poor struggling single mum at one point. Having to rely solely on benefits to get by and never believing it's possible to live on the basic pay that they give. I'm in a much better place now. I've had those moments when your desperation has made you think not rational thoughts.i e quickly run shop to get milk for cereal. The difference is I had a strong support network around me a neighbour I've trusted, family who were able to drop off bits as they lived close by, so I never had to act on those moments. And to be honest my fear of what would happen in such a short space of time has always meant that I never left my kids alone when they were too vulnerable. This mum didn't seem like she did have a support network much less a strong one has we have yet to hear from her side of the family.

To clarify I'm not excusing this woman actions.
 
Last edited:
judgejohndeed said:
Having read a bit more I wanted to add that having worked on cases where kids are abused and neglected etc, it really varies how much they tell the other parent when there’s shared care. It might be hard to believe the Dad had no idea they were that cold but the Mum may have said don’t tell your Dad or he’ll be sad, they might have just been quiet kids who didn’t say much. If the parents are on good terms as well IME they don’t ask kids ‘how was your time at other parent’s house?’ etc, generalising here but that’s usually/often where the parents are on bad terms or one doesn’t trust the other parent. If the Dad had no reason to question Mum’s parenting he might have just not asked and the kids feasibly may not have volunteered that information either.

Even if the kids had told Dad they were cold then honestly without living there himself there’s not much he can do about it. He could have spoken to Mum about it and she said the kids were making it up, she could’ve become angry that he was questioning her parenting and refused to discuss it, he could’ve offered to pay heating and she spent the money on something else. Shared care and responsibility can only extend so far.

Anyway this is a very long winded way of saying I don’t think it’s fair to apportion any blame to Dad here based on what is currently known.I imagine Dad is completely devastated and will spend the rest of his life either beating himself up because he ‘should have known’ or that he didn’t do more if he did know. I really feel for him and all other members of their family.
Click to expand...

You put it a lot better than I did!

You cannot justify a mother leaving her children for at least 1.5 hours while she went ‘shopping’

I don’t know how we are comparing to the McCanns, when what happened happened in another country! They were just as tit parents who should have been charged for neglect, but not sure what the British police could’ve done about it, if anything??
 
I don't think anyone is trying to excuse the mother here. Ultimately it was her terrible decision and the outcome is her responsibility.

However it is interesting and useful to look at the surrounding factors. I don't necessarily think the dad should have known everything about their living situation but I really don't see how he could expect to be a decent father to 6 kids under 4 across 2 households. Anyone having children needs to accept the responsibility they have to them and to the other parent. If she restricted contact because the dad had a new partner then that's unacceptable too.

Having kids is "easy" in that anyone can do it without training or qualification and so many people don't take it seriously enough.
 
Jellybean093 said:
You put it a lot better than I did!

You cannot justify a mother leaving her children for at least 1.5 hours while she went ‘shopping’

I don’t know how we are comparing to the McCanns, when what happened happened in another country! They were just as tit parents who should have been charged for neglect, but not sure what the British police could’ve done about it, if anything??
Click to expand...

You're right the McCanns are a completely different case with tit parents. Except that people can't help but point out that they received national sympathy at the time. This mum has been demonized from the outset, as soon as it was noted that they were alone. So did the Mcanns.

Either case isn't right. 4 babies have lost their lives in a horrific way and a child is still missing how many years later.
 
edwardszara said:
You're right the McCanns are a completely different case with tit parents. Except that people can't help but point out that they received national sympathy at the time. This mum has been demonized from the outset, as soon as it was noted that they were alone. So did the Mcanns.

Either case isn't right. 4 babies have lost their lives in a horrific way and a child is still missing how many years later.
Click to expand...

But she hasn’t been demonised by everyone, as there’s people on here and other apps justifying why she may have left them
There was also national outcry when it happened to Madeline , and even more so now the parents are still in the press about it, 10(?) years later? Both cases are tit, both cases involve shite neglectful parents
 
Jellybean093 said:
But she hasn’t been demonised by everyone, as there’s people on here and other apps justifying why she may have left them
There was also national outcry when it happened to Madeline , and even more so now the parents are still in the press about it, 10(?) years later? Both cases are tit, both cases involve shite neglectful parents
Click to expand...

You're right there has been sympathy towards this mum. However a few posts before, showed that change, when it was quoted by a neighbour that she went to sainsburys for over 2 hours and rightly so.

I genuinely thought at the beginning when she wasn't in the home that she ran outside to get help. But as soon as I read about the shopping and they were alone I changed towards her and I can admit that.
 
Sailorontheseasea said:
I just can’t fathom how being on benefits would equate to leaving your children at home I mean....literally, what!!?!! 🤯
Click to expand...

Her being on benefits doesn't justify her leaving them kids alone and to be a cliche the middle class McCanns left their children alone.

Her benefit status doesn't justify it. But for all we know she might have had food vouchers that could only be spent at the Sainsbury's and not the other nearby shops. (This is a response to the local neighbours on the earlier posts who pointed out that they had other local shops).

She clearly had limited money as the kids were alone in coats in a freezing house in winter. Maybe she couldn't put on her gas for a period of time to heat up their home.

There are many surrounding factors, that we will never know. Does it make it right, no because look at the outcome.
 
candyland_ said:
Why do threads like this keep popping up? I think it’s disrespectful to be gossiping about dead children so soon after their death.

Fair enough following a trial but it just seems to be odd that people are getting fascinated by this subject.
Click to expand...

Rubbernecking. Curiosity. Shock. Disbelief. More about the parents than 'gossiping about dead children'.

Also, single parents dont rake it in. Benefit fraud is where people rake it in; pretending to be a single parent.
 
edwardszara said:
Her being on benefits doesn't justify her leaving them kids alone and to be a cliche the middle class McCanns left their children alone.

Her benefit status doesn't justify it. But for all we know she might have had food vouchers that could only be spent at the Sainsbury's and not the other nearby shops. (This is a response to the local neighbours on the earlier posts who pointed out that they had other local shops).

She clearly had limited money as the kids were alone in coats in a freezing house in winter. Maybe she couldn't put on her gas for a period of time to heat up their home.

There are many surrounding factors, that we will never know. Does it make it right, no because look at the outcome.
Click to expand...
Yes, of course. Except........you still don’t leave your infant and pre-school aged children at home. Last time I checked, children were allowed in supermarkets. None of these reasons have ANY baring on the brain cells you use (or don’t use) to think that popping out to the shops for an hour is a good idea. I just really despise when people jab straight at the less fortunate and with less money or those on benefits as if living on the breadline alone is neglectful. She could have been popping out to get some life saving medication for her children and there’s STILL no reason for them to be left unsupervised. People in third world countries carry their kids on their backs and in material to get water so they’re not left to fend for themselves if they can’t stay with their families. It’s protective instinct. As people have said, this definitely was not the first time she did this, it’s just the first and last time she couldn’t get away with it.

I completely agree about the McCanns, they are JUST as criminal. People can somehow cognitively detach from that because it was in Portugal and not on our doorsteps. However, these people losing their beautiful children will be pain enough for the rest of their lives won’t it.

Just as a BTW, if you can afford to run Christmas lights on the outside of your home then you’ve at least got a little bit of money for gas and heating. Come on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top