Tokyo Olympic Games 2020/1

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thegirlscout said:
Sorry to sound dim, I’ve never watched equestrian sports before but is dressage cruel? I saw a clip and it reminded me of how people make bears dance etc? I have no knowledge so I thought I’d ask people here as you seem to know about the sport.
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Tbh what I find most cruel about including horses is having to fly them over all the way to Tokyo

From what I understand though, for dressage at least the horses are inspected by the judges after each performance/at the start of the day and any injury they see may have you disqualified. A few days ago I read that a rider was disqualified because one of the judges spotted blood in the horse's mouth and that may not have been linked to training
 
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thegirlscout said:
Sorry to sound dim, I’ve never watched equestrian sports before but is dressage cruel? I saw a clip and it reminded me of how people make bears dance etc? I have no knowledge so I thought I’d ask people here as you seem to know about the sport.
Click to expand...
No hun, don't worry- those horses for dressage, show-jumping, cross-country and also competeing at that level are YEARS in the making, years of careful training and top veterinary care, feeding etc. Even basic Dressage is used in Training in other disciplines even horse-racing, because it promotes and teaches flexibility and how to use themselves better in general. Dressage is the basis in between all the jumping in Show jumping aswell. Alot of the moves are actually based on the 4 natural gaits of the walk, trot, Canter and gallop and then you'll see them then do shorter or extended versions of each aswell. Then all the fancier moves like have specific aids and again the horse is taught all of this and what they mean. And again have origins in what horses also had to do in battle etc etc. Also these horses would be given again years to develop physically aswell.
 
Msanya36 said:
[Oh"thegirlscout, post: 5767907, member: 59523"]
Sorry to sound dim, I’ve never watched equestrian sports before but is dressage cruel? I saw a clip and it reminded me of how people make bears dance etc? I have no knowledge so I thought I’d ask people here as you seem to know about the sport.
Click to expand...

No hun, don't worry- those horses for dressage, show-jumping, cross-country and also competeing at that level are YEARS in the making, years of careful training and top veterinary care, feeding etc. Even basic Dressage is used in Training in other disciplines even horse-racing, because it promotes and teaches flexibility and how to use themselves better in general. Dressage is the basis in between all the jumping in Show jumping aswell. Alot of the moves are actually based on the 4 natural gaits of the walk, trot, Canter and gallop and then you'll see them then do shorter or extended versions of each aswell. Then all the fancier moves like have specific aids and again the horse is taught all of this and what they mean. And again have origins in what horses also had to do in battle etc etc.
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Much better that what I wrote
 
As above, dressage and any horse riding is not cruel and most horses are trained slowly and sympathetically.
if you have ever been on a horse, you would quickly find out that if they don’t want to do something, they won’t! And if they don’t want you on their back, you will soon be on the floor.
the care and attention these horses get is unreal. They have nutritionists and physios, they even have hydrotherapy!
they are also trotted up before each discipline and checked by a vet as soon as they finish.
 
Merpedy said:
Tbh what I find most cruel about including horses is having to fly them over all the way to Tokyo

From what I understand though, for dressage at least the horses are inspected by the judges after each performance/at the start of the day and any injury they see may have you disqualified. A few days ago I read that a rider was disqualified because one of the judges spotted blood in the horse's mouth and that may not have been linked to training
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I work with broodmares and have worked for one of the top Stud farms in the world, based out of Ireland. Trust me when I say horses are routinely flown around the world very carefully and successfully. They'd be given electrolytes etc pre and post flight in general and have grooms with them. Once they are given enough time to settle in, fully checked out, time to adjust they are absolutely fine. And yes all Equine events have veterinary staff right there.
 
To be perfectly fair, we don't often know how these horses are trained and the assumption is that they're trained with welfare in mind

Before the 2012 Olympics, there was a whole discussion on it because a video showed one rider using a controversial technique. One rider was banned after a video emerged of him abusing a pony. I've seen people on Reddit comment that certain riders are seen as 'controversial' due to their training methods also (sadly can't remember which riders were mentioned, but it was an interesting comment anyway)

They're not exactly going to be abusing their horses in the public eye after all, so I think concerns for potential cruelty are very valid tbh
 
Merpedy said:
To be perfectly fair, we don't often know how these horses are trained and the assumption is that they're trained with welfare in mind

Before the 2012 Olympics, there was a whole discussion on it because a video showed one rider using a controversial technique. One rider was banned after a video emerged of him abusing a pony. I've seen people on Reddit comment that certain riders are seen as 'controversial' due to their training methods also (sadly can't remember which riders were mentioned, but it was an interesting comment anyway)

They're not exactly going to be abusing their horses in the public eye after all, so I think concerns for potential cruelty are very valid tbh
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Oh of course, any concerns for animal welfare should be a concern (animal behavioural science and welfare degree here). Of course I am not saying that cruelty never happens, but authorities are cracking down on this and it is rare to happen at top level these days.
yes there are some people who think rolkur (hyperflexion of the head and neck) has its uses as a training method but there are now rules and maybe even a law about this? It is definitely not allowed in training, warm up or in the ring at show grounds.
 
blackmasque said:
Ngl this (the twisties) sounds terrifying.
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Also, no medal should be worth more than a person's well being and health (physical AND mental).
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This is such a great thread.
I coach lower level gymnastic skills and it can happen with any skills at all levels. We train on a “drills for skills” system where the athletes drill each part of the skill individually on equipment, before slowly adding them together and then progressing to doing the skill on the floor. Each stage adds the muscle memory you need to execute the skill. When someone develops a tumble block, or “twisties” as they call them in gymnastics, we would have to go right back to that drilling stage trying to repair the trust in their muscle memory and confidence in doing the skill. It can be a long process, especially if they have previously been injured as a result of the skill.
 
thegirlscout said:
Sorry to sound dim, I’ve never watched equestrian sports before but is dressage cruel? I saw a clip and it reminded me of how people make bears dance etc? I have no knowledge so I thought I’d ask people here as you seem to know about the sport.
Click to expand...
Every single movement a dressage horse performs can be done by any old nag prancing around in a field, showing off, they're just bred and trained to do it under saddle. It originally started with war horses, if you watch the Lipizzaners leap through the air and kick out their hind legs, that was to win wars. Horse welfare is front and foremost these days, there was a big fuss a few years ago over rollkur, people were riding around with their horse's head between it's knees, this headcarriage is incorrect and possibly damaging. Trust me, if your horse doesn't want to do something, there's precious little you can do about it!!! Dressage is beautiful, especially to music, watch and enjoy!

Blond3g1rl said:
Dressage is not cruel. These horses are treated like absolute gods. You cannot force horses to do anything they don’t want to do. Years and years of sympathetic training go towards being able to make a horse move like that.
It’s really hard to explain it to a non rider.
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Oh yeah, the horses are worth around £500,000 each. They are gods!!
 
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