Phoenix Lazarus
VIP Member
After the Queen dies, I think support for the royal family will decline.
The Royal Family #8
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mindlessness
VIP Member
For sure! I think especially in the Commonwealth countries. I could see Australia going to another Referendum on becoming a Republic within 5 years of her death. There's a lot of lingering affection for the Queen, but less so the RF as a whole I think.
Isa_Drennan
VIP Member
Not any of the No voters I know!The Queen is an irrelevance to us. Certainly a very small % of No voters, or even Yes voters, care about retaining the monarchy.
Right, I’ve never heard of anyone (outside of Orange Loyalists) whose reason for voting No was to keep the monarchy. People that I know that who are in favour of keeping the monarchy tend to be motivated by apathy than being actual royalists.
NonDairyQueen
VIP Member
This isn't my fight, but I can't imagine all no voters would be monarchists. They may vote no for economic reasons, which are far more relevant and important to people than the monarchy. I don't think people who feel, for example, that they might change their vote to yes in a future referendum because for example, they want to rejoin the EU for economic reasons are going to have their minds changed by some republicans because they love the Monarchy more than they care about the economic future of them and their children. The Royals have always been booed. The difference now is that it was reported.Not any of the No voters I know!
Well the polling says different. 54% of Unionists want to keep the monarchy even if Scotland went independent, only 22% want a republic. Even 30% of Yes voters from 2014 want to keep the Queen.Not any of the No voters I know!
So booing the Queen is a huge gaffe by nationalists given they need to win over voters from the 55% who voted No in 2014 and not lose any Yes voters to No. It will now be included and replayed in lots of political broadcasts from Better Together in any future indyref2 and is a gift to the No campaign in free advertising
Scots split on whether monarchy should remain if country votes for independence
A survey out today finds that independence supporters are far more likely to back Scotland becoming a republic if the country was to leave the UK.
There will certainly not be in Australia given PM Morrison is a monarchist unless Labor get back in. There never will be in Canada given both PM Trudeau and opposition leader O'Toole are both monarchists.
In any case most Commonwealth nations became republics or had their own tribal monarchs under George VI and Elizabeth anyway. The largest ones remaining with the Queen as Head of State ie Canada, Australia and New Zealand are still British origin majority and see the monarchy as a way of distinguishing themselves from the USA and Asia respectively still, especially the older population.
The younger ones also like William and Kate
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Great_Kate
VIP Member
I don’t get the problem with booing a politician or head of state in any case? People have a right to protest publicly. There was no violence or disruption to other people happening. HMTQ most definitely had worse encounters in the 70 years of her reign. I mean, I can totally see people that like her as Queen and have no objection around the UK HoS set up, protesting/booing to let her know not all of her actions are going down well with the public. I also think she isn’t phased one bit by it and can very well distinguish between her role as a symbol and herself as an individual.
I do wonder how Scotland would try to set up a second referendum (not that I think there will be one in the next 10-50 years). Who is allowed to vote next time? Living in Scotland? What about Scots that live somewhere else in the UK? Does a holiday home count? Being Scottish? How are you going to „prove“ this? How far do your Scottish routes have to go back? How far back is too far?
I said before it would be so interest how they would work it out. Just look how complicated Brexit still is. What about the border? Would a phone call be international (thinking of the Island of Saint-Martin/Sint Maarten). Would you have to go through border control when you commute to work? Will your legal working rights changed at one point when one country makes new laws? What about companies with several offices in the UK? If it happens it will be a tit ton of trouble and I doubt the adult generations will reap any benefits that might come from it in their lifetime. Just like it’s impossible to determine if Brexit will be a success or a massive failure at this point. I wonder if the fact about how the Head of State is set up should be the corner objective for someone to go into this question. That’s very short sighted, you might get a Scottish monarch (unlikely) or another form of un-elected by the people HoS. I mean, the Monarchy is basically the Scottish crown taking over from Elizabeth I. So it should really be England questioning who is sitting on that throne
I do wonder how Scotland would try to set up a second referendum (not that I think there will be one in the next 10-50 years). Who is allowed to vote next time? Living in Scotland? What about Scots that live somewhere else in the UK? Does a holiday home count? Being Scottish? How are you going to „prove“ this? How far do your Scottish routes have to go back? How far back is too far?
I said before it would be so interest how they would work it out. Just look how complicated Brexit still is. What about the border? Would a phone call be international (thinking of the Island of Saint-Martin/Sint Maarten). Would you have to go through border control when you commute to work? Will your legal working rights changed at one point when one country makes new laws? What about companies with several offices in the UK? If it happens it will be a tit ton of trouble and I doubt the adult generations will reap any benefits that might come from it in their lifetime. Just like it’s impossible to determine if Brexit will be a success or a massive failure at this point. I wonder if the fact about how the Head of State is set up should be the corner objective for someone to go into this question. That’s very short sighted, you might get a Scottish monarch (unlikely) or another form of un-elected by the people HoS. I mean, the Monarchy is basically the Scottish crown taking over from Elizabeth I. So it should really be England questioning who is sitting on that throne
She could do, although she has said she would not hold a wildcat referendum. However without Westminster support it would not be legal as union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 which created Holyrood.
See also Spain where the Spanish government ignored a Catalan independence referendum in 2017
Annabanana40
Chatty Member
My husband is Scottish, his elderly relatives are unionists but not very bothered about the Royals. Tbh I don't get why anyone thinks they're so great, they're the most ordinary of ordinary in terms of talent, charisma, intelligence, work ethic, looks. There's literally nothing to recommend them except that there might be political upheaval to move to a different system. Though I suspect once the queen is gone reverence for the monarchy will fall through the floor in all quarters as the rest are just celebrities for all intents and purposes.
The Queen is also a celebrity as well as being Head of State. The polling however shows William and Kate about as popular as the Queen. Charles and Camilla are a bit less popular but they are most popular amongst the over 65s and given they are both in their 70s anyway that is the key age range they need to keep on board as he will have a relatively short reign due to his age.
Elected heads of state are deeply divisive and split entirely along party lines as to whether you respect them or not, see France and the USA. Tory voters would never accept a President Starmer and Labour voters would never accept a President Boris. Constitutional monarchies can represent the whole nation, do the symbolism of head of state while leaving the politics of governing to the PM and his cabinet and parliament
NonDairyQueen
VIP Member
I agree. I don't really know what there is about them to admire. I suspect we are stuck with them, as if the Windsors know how to do anything, they know what to do to keep themselves on the Throne. I cant understand why William and Kate are 'popular'. Why? A fairly dull couple who don't really have much about them. William bangs on about the environment while jetting around in helicopters whenever he feels like it and Kate is basically a clothes horse. Perfect Royal wife material, but someone to admire? Really?
Superdude
Well-known member
Yes, mostly everyone I know things they're a bit ... dull? And pointless. Popular in a "photos of the clothes & the kids" kind of way, but meaningless and irrelevant to a 21st century country.
The days of revereing an entire family because their ancestors beheaded many enemies are thankfully over.
mindlessness
VIP Member
I said within 5 to 10 years of the Queen dying (and Scott Morrison won't be PM by that point, heck he might not be PM this time next year!) Even if we have another LNP PM I would put money on a referendum in that time frame. Being for a republic/against a monarchy isn't along party lines in Australia.
Edited to add some recent articles discussing this:
https://www.news.com.au/entertainme...s/news-story/9a068f60a6512d3babd782fa466d9778 (2018)
https://www.12ft.io/https://www.the...ose-model-for-republic-in-second-half-of-2021 (2021)
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NonDairyQueen
VIP Member
I suspect most people, away from Social Media threads about the monarchy don't think about them at all, which is great for them, because no one really cares enough to get rid of them. In their case not being talked about is the best thing, because the more people know about them, the harder it is to justify having them!
MidnightAura
VIP Member
I’m Scottish. Firmly anti independence but I don’t care for the Royals at all. My reasons for being anti independence is nothing to do with the Royal family. I’m more than happy to get rid of them all. They think they are above the law and that’s not right. One rule for thee another for me is not acceptable in 2021.
They certainly aren't in Japan, Sweden, Norway, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Spain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Jordan etc. All prosperous and free countries with constitutional monarchies like ours
Actually it very much is largely along party lines in Australia.
One poll earlier this year had 52% of LNP voters wanting to keep the monarchy and only 27% wanting a republic. By contrast 41% of Labor voters wanted to become a republic with 34% wanting to keep the monarchy and 46% of Green voters wanted to become a republic with 30% wanting to keep the monarchy
‘No sense of momentum’: Poll finds drop in support for Australia becoming a republic
Support for Australia becoming a republic has slipped, according to a poll that reveals only a third of Australians are in favour.
Superdude
Well-known member
Aren't the Spanish royals facing ongoing allegations of major corruption, which might well see an end to the Spanish monarchy? And Canada, Australia and New Zealand have the same monarch as the UK, so they're not separate examples of successful constitutional monarchies, just hangovers from the days of Empire.
Not so sure Japan has a stable monarchy right now either.
NonDairyQueen
VIP Member
Also, the Northern European monarchies are far smaller than ours, and have gotten rid of most of the fluff that surrounds the BRF- getting rid of the HRH and only expecting the monarch and the heir to do Royal duties- and dont have the sheer number of Palaces and Royal residences ours do. This is the model I think the BRF should take, but I don't think the hangers on will give up easily. The BRF hang around the dodgy absolute monarchies in the Middle East, so we know who they want to emulate, and its not some bicycling low key Dutch Royals with jobs outside the Royal Family.
Phoenix Lazarus
VIP Member
The Queen's death is going to be a massive upheaval, with her having ruled since the early 1950s.
Not against the current Spanish King, no, against his father who already abdicated. Though I doubt they will do too much against Juan Carlos as he led the transition to democracy after the 40 year Franco dictatorship in Spain.
Most of the royals now have outside jobs, certainly the younger generation, except the Cambridges as they are direct heirs in line.
The only absolute monarchies in the Middle East are in Saudi and the UAE now and the BRF hang around the Scandinavian and Dutch royals and attend weddings and events with them as least as much as events with the Middle Eastern monarchies. For starters the Middle Eastern monarchies are Muslim and the BRF are Christian like their Northern European royal counterparts
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