The Royal Family #41

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Suzesnooze said:
I’ve always assumed that she was learning the ropes in the ‘waity’ years. No way would William want her to end up like his mother. Kate has never put a foot wrong (unlike Sophie who people praise!). She was obviously learning how to be the perfect royal behind the scenes.
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But didn’t the Queen criticise her for not doing anything? That says to me that her waiting wasn’t sanctioned by the palace. I think she did it by choice because she wanted to be Queen and that was what she needed to do and her parents could (presumably) bankroll her to do very little. It’s a bizarre lifestyle choice to make to me but it’s worked out for her. I can still criticise it as she would be more impressive if she was more active and passionate about things. But if she and the RF are happy with how she is then she’s doing fine. But I don’t think she is particularly loved. Maybe public opinion respects her but there is no sense of any warmth or enthusiasm for her (and not much more for her husband I think).
 
cee-bee said:
I think that’s just what kate/will-stans tell themselves to romanticise their relationship. It’s a nicer alternative to the reality that Kate was mostly seen shopping on the Kings road in those years, living in a flat her parents bought for her. In reality, if memory serves, the Queen found it disappointing that Kate didn’t have a proper career, which is what supposedly prompted her stint at jigsaw. Belle Robinson (jigsaw founder) gave a good review of Kate but was open about how she’d asked for a job (3 days a week) that allowed her to be flexible because she was dating a high profile man. This was circa 2006 I believe. And really it’s the very definition of moulding your life to fit around someone else.

belle was also clear that Kate didn’t get any official support; so it’s not like the palace were involved in grooming her for royal life.

in the decade of dating Prince William, you’d assume that Kate would take up endeavours that would prepare her for such a role; charity work, public speaking. But Kate never did that, she paid lip service to a career at jigsaw but it’s clear her priority lay in making herself available to William.

the reality is that there was no “preparing” for royal life. As far as the royal family are concerned, unless you’re officially engaged, you’re not in the door and they have nothing to do with you.

I think for William, he was never 100% sure on Kate. I can’t speak for the inner workings of his mind, obviously. But it’s telling that he broke up with her. It’s telling that he waited a decade before marrying her. It’s telling that he wasn’t super excited to tell his brother he was about to propose. It’s telling that he got drunk the night before the wedding. IMO, Prince Harry is saying a lot in spare without saying it.

i think their marriage is based on a lot of pragmatism with some affection, rather than deep profound love and intimacy. I just don’t think there’s evidence that Kate was using that decade to “learn the ropes”. I think at best, she stuck it out and it showed William she was the best candidate he was ever likely to find.
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I agree with a lot of what you’ve said here, but I have to say that anything written in Spare should be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

Lots has been proven to be false. Harry is clearly a very bitter and sad man, who is jealous of William for being the first born. I find it really hard to trust anything that he says about William tbh.

I’m definitely not anti-Harry and Meghan (I don’t really give much of a tit either way tbh 😂), but I do take Harry’s perception of William very much in the view that Harry has a huge agenda.
 
cee-bee said:
I think that’s just what kate/will-stans tell themselves to romanticise their relationship. It’s a nicer alternative to the reality that Kate was mostly seen shopping on the Kings road in those years, living in a flat her parents bought for her. In reality, if memory serves, the Queen found it disappointing that Kate didn’t have a proper career, which is what supposedly prompted her stint at jigsaw. Belle Robinson (jigsaw founder) gave a good review of Kate but was open about how she’d asked for a job (3 days a week) that allowed her to be flexible because she was dating a high profile man. This was circa 2006 I believe. And really it’s the very definition of moulding your life to fit around someone else.

belle was also clear that Kate didn’t get any official support; so it’s not like the palace were involved in grooming her for royal life.

in the decade of dating Prince William, you’d assume that Kate would take up endeavours that would prepare her for such a role; charity work, public speaking. But Kate never did that, she paid lip service to a career at jigsaw but it’s clear her priority lay in making herself available to William.

the reality is that there was no “preparing” for royal life. As far as the royal family are concerned, unless you’re officially engaged, you’re not in the door and they have nothing to do with you.

I think for William, he was never 100% sure on Kate. I can’t speak for the inner workings of his mind, obviously. But it’s telling that he broke up with her. It’s telling that he waited a decade before marrying her. It’s telling that he wasn’t super excited to tell his brother he was about to propose. It’s telling that he got drunk the night before the wedding. IMO, Prince Harry is saying a lot in spare without saying it.

i think their marriage is based on a lot of pragmatism with some affection, rather than deep profound love and intimacy. I just don’t think there’s evidence that Kate was using that decade to “learn the ropes”. I think at best, she stuck it out and it showed William she was the best candidate he was ever likely to find.
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They got engaged at 28, that seems a pretty standard age, so does it matter that they waited a decade after meeting at 19? & if Spare taught us anything it’s that William and Harry weren’t as close as the world perceived.

I’m not a fan or Meghan or Harry but it seems insane to think she didn’t love him when they visibly looked in love. They both seem like they live in a dreamland sometimes, and Harry over eggs how fairytale perfect they are for each other, but that doesn’t mean they’re not in love.
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Boring Monday said:
just as an aside, what on earth was Samantha (Lady Cameron?) wearing? Surely if your husband is done up in a white tie and tail suit you should twig that you are not just popping out for afternoon tea?
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Idk what I was expecting but it’s even worse than what I could have imagined. Surely she must have something a bit glitzy in her wardrobe she could have changed into when she saw his outfit, or even just a quick Google of state banquet would have told her she was underdressed. Think this could be worse than Liz Truss wearing Karen Millen to the coronation, but still not as bad as Sarah Brown’s coronation dress.
 
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stardust21 said:
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said here, but I have to say that anything written in Spare should be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

Lots has been proven to be false. Harry is clearly a very bitter and sad man, who is jealous of William for being the first born. I find it really hard to trust anything that he says about William tbh.

I’m definitely not anti-Harry and Meghan (I don’t really give much of a tit either way tbh 😂), but I do take Harry’s perception of William very much in the view that Harry has a huge agenda.
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I agree to an extent! I don’t take Harry’s version of events as being gospel truth… but he does have a unique perspective having being a core part of the family since birth. Meghan definitely lies outright, Harry has always seemed less comfortable in doing so (for example, he was very quiet when she made the claim to Oprah that they got married in private the day before, and he later made a point of clarifying it was a rehearsal in “Spare”).

His perspective is obviously very bias (and his bitterness and jealousy towards William is obvious) but I do think we can take some claims he makes as being honest. I don’t think, for example, Harry would outright lie about William being drunk on his wedding day. That’s my thinking anyway.

i felt that the subtext of the parts in spare where Harry mentions the wedding and William’s engagement, was that his feeling was that William didn’t really want to get married.

It’s odd, to not mention to your family that you’re planning on proposing. Especially when it’s such a public affair. Came across to me like Harry was saying William was reluctant and wanted room to get out if he changed his mind.

likewise, I’ve been to dozens of weddings and never once have I known a groom want to go out on the lash the night before, let alone get drunk on his wedding day. I think that’s why Harry mentioned it- he didn’t want to say outright, but it just didn’t come across like William wanted to get married. Even their engagement interview was weird and stiff and lacking in warmth.

it’s easy to forget but, William, as part of what he was born into, has no real choice. No real choice for his career, for his lifestyle choices. If he decided he didn’t want to get married… that’s not really an option for him. If he wanted to marry a super left wing bohemian hippy… he couldn’t. Because that’s not the type of woman he’s expected to marry. There’s a strong precedent in his family of the prototype of the woman he can and cannot marry. He’s never had any real choice.

Kate was, by the looks of things, the best option in his very limited suite of choices. He isn’t part of a system that values or fosters genuine romantic love and connection. It’s a system based on pragmatism and survival.

the royal family sell a fantasy, infamously. They are supposed to be aspirational, to set an example. Part of their go-to branding is selling a fairytale. Diana and Charles were a big fairytale… at first.

I think Kate and William sell a different sort of fantasy - the stable family. She’s the perfect, on hands mother who never has a hair out of place, keeps her figure after 3 kids, is quiet and unassuming. He’s the model, hands on father who wears a suit and is authoritative and responsible.

there have been hints and suggestions that their facade is just that - when William was pictured out partying without Kate, when there were rumours of an affair that was hushed up by the press and so on. I think, unlike Diana, Kate is a bit more savvy and practical though. Plus, what real choice does she have now anyway?

so in a sense, they are as perfect as a couple can be for that type of institution. But I’ve never seen them as a deeply in love, romantic couple.
 
I think we know Harry is prone to some exaggeration so maybe William just had a quick whiskey on the morning and somehow Harry has made that drunk.
If anyone is watching I’m a Celeb it’s a bit like the Nella/Fred fight currently happening. It was a nothing comment she has taken the wrong way and has exploded over not a lot really but that’s her truth and now she’s refusing to speak to him or eat and everyone else is confused about how strong her reaction is and where it came from.
 
cee-bee said:
I agree to an extent! I don’t take Harry’s version of events as being gospel truth… but he does have a unique perspective having being a core part of the family since birth. Meghan definitely lies outright, Harry has always seemed less comfortable in doing so (for example, he was very quiet when she made the claim to Oprah that they got married in private the day before, and he later made a point of clarifying it was a rehearsal in “Spare”).

His perspective is obviously very bias (and his bitterness and jealousy towards William is obvious) but I do think we can take some claims he makes as being honest. I don’t think, for example, Harry would outright lie about William being drunk on his wedding day. That’s my thinking anyway.

i felt that the subtext of the parts in spare where Harry mentions the wedding and William’s engagement, was that his feeling was that William didn’t really want to get married.

It’s odd, to not mention to your family that you’re planning on proposing. Especially when it’s such a public affair. Came across to me like Harry was saying William was reluctant and wanted room to get out if he changed his mind.

likewise, I’ve been to dozens of weddings and never once have I known a groom want to go out on the lash the night before, let alone get drunk on his wedding day. I think that’s why Harry mentioned it- he didn’t want to say outright, but it just didn’t come across like William wanted to get married. Even their engagement interview was weird and stiff and lacking in warmth.

it’s easy to forget but, William, as part of what he was born into, has no real choice. No real choice for his career, for his lifestyle choices. If he decided he didn’t want to get married… that’s not really an option for him. If he wanted to marry a super left wing bohemian hippy… he couldn’t. Because that’s not the type of woman he’s expected to marry. There’s a strong precedent in his family of the prototype of the woman he can and cannot marry. He’s never had any real choice.

Kate was, by the looks of things, the best option in his very limited suite of choices. He isn’t part of a system that values or fosters genuine romantic love and connection. It’s a system based on pragmatism and survival.

the royal family sell a fantasy, infamously. They are supposed to be aspirational, to set an example. Part of their go-to branding is selling a fairytale. Diana and Charles were a big fairytale… at first.

I think Kate and William sell a different sort of fantasy - the stable family. She’s the perfect, on hands mother who never has a hair out of place, keeps her figure after 3 kids, is quiet and unassuming. He’s the model, hands on father who wears a suit and is authoritative and responsible.

there have been hints and suggestions that their facade is just that - when William was pictured out partying without Kate, when there were rumours of an affair that was hushed up by the press and so on. I think, unlike Diana, Kate is a bit more savvy and practical though. Plus, what real choice does she have now anyway?

so in a sense, they are as perfect as a couple can be for that type of institution. But I’ve never seen them as a deeply in love, romantic couple.
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I think they are a good team and I think they are fond of each other. Marriage is usually about more than romance and they seem to have found a way to make what they have work. But I will maintain that they should be doing more in their public roles. Both of them.
 
CuriousCat92 said:
I think they are a good team and I think they are fond of each other. Marriage is usually about more than romance and they seem to have found a way to make what they have work. But I will maintain that they should be doing more in their public roles. Both of them.
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For me, when I criticise royalty, it’s not so much about them as people (because ultimately it’s pretty hard to know what they are like).

my criticism is of the royal family as an institution. I think people cling to it as a bit of a relic, a symbolism of a bit of a bygone era when Britain was a world empire and superpower. Plus there’s the romanticism and mystique and glamour of them.

but when you look at it a bit more objectively… it’s a cruel, archaic system that really sucks people dry and stands for things unpalatable to most modern sensitbilities.

I think you’re right, William and Kate seem to make their marriage work for them. But it’s sad in a way that William has had this pressure piled on him since birth. I remember watching their engagement interview a decade ago and thinking… this isn’t a man head over heels in love. I remember thinking that, back then, it wouldn’t surprise me if in 20 years it emerged William had found another woman who he fell deeply in love with, but who was kept out of the news to save his marriage.
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Boring Monday said:
just as an aside, what on earth was Samantha (Lady Cameron?) wearing? Surely if your husband is done up in a white tie and tail suit you should twig that you are not just popping out for afternoon tea?
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it’s from her own brand. He was only announced as foreign sec a week ago so I’m gonna assume she didn’t have a ton of time to prepare and decided to plug her own clothing line.
 
Boring Monday said:
Ah, I refuse to believe that the newly minted Lady Cameron, wife of the Foreign Secretary, couldn’t have had someone rustle up an appropriate dress from somewhere. (If plan was to promote her own line, it backfired because it looked awful. Wouldn’t want it for dusters).
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I think it can take weeks to find an appropriate dress, have it tailored to fit and so on. I am surprised though, and she’s supposed to be pretty fashionista-ey and has been an ambassador for the British Fashion Council.

I think she’s decided not to bother and stick with a dress she already has, which happily for her, involves promo for her own company.

I’m inclined to believe she might’ve used it as an excuse to plug her own company.

I don’t think she’s ever been a big fan of public life either tbh, and it’s been thrust back on her a little last minute, which could be another reason why she wants to stick to a dress she presumbably feels comfortable in?
 
Doing some googling, I think it might just be her style, this is her at a state banquet in America.
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Not sure it’s entirely appropriate, if there’s a dress code you should really stick to it. She must have one dress that’s a bit glam
 
Just to play devils advocate- To be fair I remember when she had the job at jigsaw and her ex boss came out and said she had to leave because it just wasn’t feasible when you had 20 paparazzi following you to work every day. If a radio station rang up the hospital to try and get intel on her, you can only image the amount of work colleagues who would have been approached, especially given it was the noughties and much more brutal/anything goes to get a scoop.

I’m not saying she couldn’t have a job, just that the reality was her options were incredibly limited and tbh she and anyone who employed her knew that it wasn’t going to be a career, she would be giving it all up eventually, so I can’t really blame her for thinking what’s the point I may as well swan around partying and shopping whilst I have the freedom to do so.
 
Honeystar said:
Just to play devils advocate- To be fair I remember when she had the job at jigsaw and her ex boss came out and said she had to leave because it just wasn’t feasible when you had 20 paparazzi following you to work every day. If a radio station rang up the hospital to try and get intel on her, you can only image the amount of work colleagues who would have been approached, especially given it was the noughties and much more brutal/anything goes to get a scoop.

I’m not saying she couldn’t have a job, just that the reality was her options were incredibly limited and tbh she and anyone who employed her knew that it wasn’t going to be a career, she would be giving it all up eventually, so I can’t really blame her for thinking what’s the point I may as well swan around partying and shopping whilst I have the freedom to do so.
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Those are good points.. and it does sound like the paps were horrendous. But she was a part time buyer, how juicy a scoop could they possibly get in Kate from following her to and from work?

Other royal girlfriends managed it. Even Diana continued working while dating Prince Charles (although that was a much shorter time).

apparently it was such a big concern that it wa called “the Kate Problem” ie Kate was in London ready to be available whenever William dropped in at short notice to party.
 
@CuriousCat92 well said!

Back to the State visit- WHYYYYYYY Kate???? The bold red is just too much. And the white dress is horrible. In the picture with Princess Anne in the background, their dresses look so alike. And we can bet Anne’s is a re-wear from a long time ago. The mini caplet with the pointy shoulders is, pardon me, ugly. And the gloves would need to be tight too look elegant. And while I don’t mind Kate’s heavy hand for eyeliner, the hair doesn’t work. At least we finally got to see some serious and new sparkle.
I don’t think the reigns around the jewels have been loosened. Or at least not a lot. HMTQ has worn tons of big jewels. But the less State Visits and tours she did, the less we saw the pieces and she definitely had changing favourites throughout time. With no Princess of Wales for a long time and then Camilla, who was very careful not to put peoples noses into the fact that she was the PoW, we just didn’t see as many tiaras out and about. I would wish to see them drag their jewellery out more.
 
Whilst I didn’t love her looks yesterday, I did appreciate that she went swooshy and royal, I mean she’s one of the only people who can actually get away with or have a purpose for these kinds of outfits so I wish she’d just embrace it and turn up to a nursery messy play session in full cape, tiara and sash (I joke of course)
 
Baby Giraffe said:
I don't really care what she wears, I'd just prefer her to be less sappy and actually do something to justify the money she gets as a working royal. Same goes for her husband although he's less sappy.
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Perfect example of the point being made in the comment you quoted lol

Jesus be some self-awareness.
 
Honeystar said:
Whilst I didn’t love her looks yesterday, I did appreciate that she went swooshy and royal, I mean she’s one of the only people who can actually get away with or have a purpose for these kinds of outfits so I wish she’d just embrace it and turn up to a nursery messy play session in full cape, tiara and sash (I joke of course)
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I think what frustrates me is that she has shown that she can pull off real showstopper moments. Perfectly suitable for a Duchess of Cambridge, Princess of Wales or Queen. I am all for bringing the glitz and glamour that comes with the fairytale (or the crazy privilege, depending on how you want to see it). But this was not a good execution for me.
 
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