The JonBenét Ramsey Case.

1

rainbowlemon

VIP Member
Not to derail Madeleine's thread.


This is the newest documentary with her father done with 60 mins AUS.




This is the documentary that made me suspect the brother.



The people involved in the discussion:

Dr Henry lee - forensic scientist. Worked on the OJ simpson case + founder of the institue of forensic science.

Jim Fitzgerald : Forensic Linguist & profiler. Worked on the Unabomber case.

James Kolar : Investigator for the Boulder DA.
Stan Burke : Statement analyst (also gone through Maddie's parental statements).

Dr Werner Spitz : Forensic pathologist.

Worked on the MLK assassination and JFK case.

The mother hangs up the 911 phone call. The tape still captures sound. They amplified it using modern technology.

Patsy can be heard cleary saying :

"What did you do?"

The 911 emergency listener also says it's the first time in 20 years that anyone even spoke to her.

Her initial reaction was that something wasn't right.
 
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The bowl of pineapple with her brothers fingerprints , she had eaten pineapple according to the autopsy report but her parents never fed her any! The lack of semen but a sexual assault occurred, a 9 yr old would need help to write such a long ransom note if the brother is guilty her parents covered for him, the whole thing seems really off and immature.
 
In the first video with her father above. They also found DNA of an unknown male on her clothing. The father is currently trying to get access to the found DNA to cross match to their suspect list.

Don't think the brother wrote the note himself though.

Some cold cases in the US have been solved after 35 + 50 years because of 23&me sites linking relatives..

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I've never believed the murderer was someone outside the family.

No genuine kidnapper would take the time to write a long, rambling ransom note while inside the house - all the time risking discovery. It seemed to be written to give John a reason to leave the house with a large case (presumably containing the body). After all, why would a kidnapper specify the type of case to bring the money in? They wouldn't care as long as they got it.
 
I've never believed the murderer was someone outside the family.

No genuine kidnapper would take the time to write a long, rambling ransom note while inside the house - all the time risking discovery. It seemed to be written to give John a reason to leave the house with a large case (presumably containing the body). After all, why would a kidnapper specify the type of case to bring the money in? They wouldn't care as long as they got it.
Her body was found in the house.
 
In the first video with her father above. They also found DNA of an unknown male on her clothing. The father is currently trying to get access to the found DNA to cross match to their suspect list.

Don't think the brother wrote the note himself though.

Some cold cases in the US have been solved after 35 + 50 years because of 23&me sites linking relatives..

View attachment 1605269 q
What type of DNA ? The scene was contaminated, it could just as easily end up being her dads he carried her from the basement.
 
They actually didn't specify the DNA type but in the doc said they ruled out the father. They showed images of her underwear and PJ bottoms together whilst talking about DNA,

Her father's friend (Fleet White) was also with him when they found the body.

Fleet later also wrote a 5000 word letter:

" After JonBenét Ramsey was killed in Boulder nearly twenty months ago, her parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, immediately hired prominent Democrat criminal defense attorneys with the law firm of Haddon, Morgan and Foreman. This firm and its partners have close professional, political and personal ties to prosecutors, the Denver and Boulder legal and judicial communities, state legislators, and high-ranking members of Colorado government, including Gov. Roy Romer. The investigation of her death has since been characterized by confusion and delays. "

 
Also an analysis of her brother's body language on the Dr Phil show.

On the panel is Chase huges who has taught intelligence agencies + Greg hartley who has worked for the military.

 
They actually didn't specify the DNA type but in the doc said they ruled out the father. They showed images of her underwear and PJ bottoms together whilst talking about DNA,
they found dna in the underwear that was JBR’s a few years back but couldn’t rule out that it was brand new and hadn’t been washed, which meant the DNA could have been from the worker who made them. Are they retesting it?
 
I have just listened to Crime Weekly’s series on the case.

My thoughts - trigger warning, some graphic details:

There is no way Burke could have done the crime as a nine year old boy. The garrotte is expertly done, going from her neck to her wrist. Don’t believe it was physically possible for him to carry out the extreme torture she was put through. Previously hit her with a golf club and rumours he “went to the bathroom in her bed”…yikes.

My top suspects would be:

John Ramsey Jr - his semen was on a blanket inside the suitcase found next to JonBenet’s body. She had been violated with a wooden handle, was he “spent” and unable to do it with his own body?

A hitman - it seems like a professional job as such little evidence, had to be done in leather gloves imo? Stun gun used to subdue JonBenet which caused her to wet herself (body covered in urine). Garrotte method suggests someone who did that before/often. Ransom note is specific, could include things they were told about John Ramsey, that they then embellished to fit with his business background, add in movie quotes to taunt him. Left behind their Maglite which they had bashed her over the head with. Were they supposed to kidnap her and it went wrong, they panicked and killed her? Or told to make the hit as nasty as possible for maximum emotional upset?

Someone from John Ramsey’s inner circle/ disgruntled colleague - ransom note is very specific and includes his exact bonus for that year ($118,000). Clearly written by someone with good intelligence (“hence”, “small foreign faction”, the word country is capitalised, all of which is interesting). JonBenet was not violated with a penis, but a wooden handle, possibly a paint brush. That suggests an act of extreme anger/hatred/violence, and not sexual attraction to her. Seems more like an act of hatred towards John Ramsey.

Random “weirdo” from the local area: she had a red heart drawn on her hand and I believe a strange teddy dressed as Santa left in her room? Well known from the beauty pageant scene. Were they trying to kidnap her and got disturbed? They know a heck of a lot about John Ramsey, the note suggests a lot of research into him; they want to taunt him more than anything. It would be unusual for a “weirdo” not to simply take her and get the heck out of there taking her with them alive. Why a ransom note and further, why such a very long ransom note? Not normal weirdo behaviour at all.

Anyway, those are my random thoughts and impressions. Please don’t be mean, none of us are experts and no one knows the truth!
 
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I have just listened to Crime Weekly’s series on the case.

My thoughts - trigger warning, some graphic details:

There is no way Burke could have done the crime as a nine year old boy. The garrotte is expertly done, going from her neck to her wrist. Don’t believe it was physically possible for him to carry out the extreme torture she was put through.

My top suspects would be:

John Ramsey Jr - his semen was on a blanket inside the suitcase found next to JonBenet’s body. She had been violated with a wooden handle, was he “spent” and unable to do it with his own body?

A hitman - it seems like a professional job as such little evidence, had to be done in leather gloves imo? Stun gun used to subdue JonBenet which caused her to wet herself (body covered in urine). Garrotte method suggests someone who did that before/often. Ransom note is specific, could include things they were told about John Ramsey, that they then embellished to fit with his business background, add in movie quotes to taunt him. Left behind their Maglite which they had bashed her over the head with. Were they supposed to kidnap her and it went wrong, they panicked and killed her? Or told to make the hit as nasty as possible for maximum emotional upset?

Someone from John Ramsey’s inner circle/ disgruntled colleague - ransom note is very specific and includes his exact bonus for that year ($118,000). Clearly written by someone with good intelligence (“hence”, “foreign faction”, the word country is capitalised, all of which is interesting). JonBenet was not violated with a penis, but a wooden handle, possibly a paint brush. That suggests an act of extreme anger/hatred/violence, and not sexual attraction to her. Seems more like an act of hatred towards John Ramsey.

Random “weirdo” from the local area: she had a red heart drawn on her hand and I believe a strange teddy dressed as Santa left in her room? Well known from the beauty pageant scene. Were they trying to kidnap her and got disturbed? They know a heck of a lot about John Ramsey, the note suggests a lot of research into him; they want to taunt him more than anything. It would be unusual for a “weirdo” not to simply take her and get the heck out of there taking her with them alive. Why a ransom note and further, why such a very long ransom note? Not normal weirdo behaviour at all.

Anyway, those are my random thoughts and impressions. Please don’t be mean, none of us are experts and no one knows the truth!
I love the theories around this case, nice to see this thread wake up again. I believe they’ve said that the garrotte didn’t kill her, so in my eyes Burke is still a strong possibility. As a linguist, I still think a woman wrote that note - it leans heavily towards feminine writing styles. Didn’t know John’s semen was found - is this new info?
 
I love the theories around this case, nice to see this thread wake up again. I believe they’ve said that the garrotte didn’t kill her, so in my eyes Burke is still a strong possibility. As a linguist, I still think a woman wrote that note - it leans heavily towards feminine writing styles. Didn’t know John’s semen was found - is this new info?
Yeah, I think it is new info, but I listened to eight hours of that podcast! So at some point I will listen to all the episodes again and make sure I heard that part correctly. On the podcast they kinda dismissed it and said it didn’t seem like much, but I don’t know….seems awfully strange for a 23 year old who didn’t even live with them 🤨
 
Yeah, I think it is new info, but I listened to eight hours of that podcast! So at some point I will listen to all the episodes again and make sure I heard that part correctly. On the podcast they kinda dismissed it and said it didn’t seem like much, but I don’t know….seems awfully strange for a 23 year old who didn’t even live with them 🤨
Sorry - who is the 23yo who didn't live with them?
 
Such a strange case. The 'ransom' note is fascinating, I was just looking at Statement Analysis website;


As you can see there is a lot of deception in this ransom note. The writer's own words tell us this ransom note was not written with the intent to obtain money. Since the ransom note was written as a ruse, we can conclude this was not a kidnapping that turned into a murder, but a murder made to look like a kidnapping. This means we cannot exclude the Ramseys as possible suspects. Let's look at what evidence ties John and Patsy Ramsey to the ransom note.

1. The ransom note was written on a pad of paper that was in the Ramsey's residence. Likewise, the pen that was used to write the note also came from their residence.

2. The killer placed a nylon cord made into a garrote around JonBenet's neck and strangled her. A broken paintbrush belonging to Patsy Ramsey was used to make the garrote.

3. While handwriting analysis shows that John Ramsey did not write the ransom note, Patsy Ramsey could not be completely eliminated as the writer.

4. Certain words in the ransom note such as "instruction" "monitor" "execution" "scanned" "electronic" and "device" are computer terms. At the time of JonBenet's death, John Ramsey was president of Access Graphics a computer distribution company.

5. The kidnapper demanded $118,000 from the Ramseys. This is a very unusual amount. Most people would ask for a much larger amount. There is a reason why the writer chose $118,000. Even John Ramsey agrees that the number 118 is significant to the killer. It has been reported that in 1996 John Ramsey received a Christmas bonus of $118,000. Is this a coincidence? When the writer had to think of a number, $118,000 was on his mind.

13. delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we
14. monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to
15. arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a earlier
16. delivery pickup of your daughter.

6. The word "hence" is not a very common word. When was the last time you used that word in a sentence? We should look to see if this word appears in any writings of John or Patsy Ramsey. Well, it does. On December 14, 1997, the First United Methodist Church in Boulder, Colorado held a memorial service for JonBenet. In the program, there was "A Christmas Message from the Ramsey Family." This message was also posted on the Ramsey family's web site. In the message, we find the statement, "Had there been no birth of Christ, there would be no hope of eternal life, and, hence, no hope of ever being with our loved ones again."

7. The word "hence" is a transition word. You do not have to use the word "and" with it. For example, "Profits were down this year, hence you will not be receiving a bonus." Most people use the word "hence" and not the words "and hence." The writer of the ransom note used the phrase "and hence." In their Christmas Message, the Ramseys used this exact same phrase. "Had there been no birth of Christ, there would be no hope of eternal life, and, hence, no hope of ever being with our loved ones again."

In their book, The Death of Innocence, Patsy Ramsey addresses the use of the phrase "and hence."

"Actually, I have no idea why we used that phrase. Maybe we'd seen it so many times in reading the ransom note - and having to write it over and over again for the police - that it became a part of our subconscious vocabulary. Who Knows? Then again, maybe people everywhere use the phrase 'and hence' every day of the week, because it's a normal part of the English language."

Like I said, when was the last time you used that phrase? It is not part of the normal English vocabulary. Patsy Ramsey does not tell us why they used that phrase. She only says "maybe" it is because they saw it in the ransom note and had to write it several times for the police. She then asked a question, "Who knows?" She is trying to sweep this under the carpet as if it is no big deal. However, this is a very big deal. We have the same phrase that is in the ransom note, appearing in their writings.

We should also note that Patsy Ramsey used the word "actually." This word is used when a person is comparing two thoughts. She is comparing "I have no idea" with what? That she does have an idea?

Also, it is very rare when a person can honestly say "I have no idea." Most people have an idea on just about everything. It may not be correct but they have an idea. After saying she has "no idea" she then contradicts herself and offers an explanation (an idea) why they used that phrase.

On October 12, 2000, the Ramsey's did a webcast interview with Newseum (www.newsuem.org). In the interview, John Ramsey makes the following statement:

"The justice system is a government organization, and hence should be looked at with some degree of skepticism."

8. Many Ramsey supporters believe the Ramseys did subconsciously adopt the phrase "and hence" found in the ransom note. I will admit it is possible. But let's take a closer look at the phrase "and hence." When we look at the original ransom note we find the writer had crossed out a word.

13. delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we
14. monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to
15. arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a earlier
16. delivery pickup of your daughter.

As I previously mentioned, the writer probably realized that a kidnapper would not deliver the hostage. This caused him to cross out the word "delivery" and write "pick-up." Another reason why he may have crossed out the word "delivery" has to do with the author's writing style. An examination of the writing style shows us that whatever comes before the phrase "and hence" comes after the phrase "and hence."

14. monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to
15. arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a earlier
16. delivery pickup of your daughter.

We see the same writing style in the Ramsey's 1997 Christmas message.

"Had there been no birth of Christ, there would be no hope of eternal life, and, hence, no hope of ever being with our loved ones again."

The Ramsey supporters would have us believe that the Ramseys not only adopted the word "hence," they also adopted the phrase "and hence" and they adopted the killer's writing style! Possible but not probable.

In their book, "The Death of Innocence," the Ramseys state they believe this was a kidnapping that turned into a murder. When Larry King interviewed John and Patsy in March 2000, he asked Patsy, "Why would a kidnapper write a ransom note when JonBenet was already dead?" If the Ramseys believe this was a kidnapping that went bad, the answer to Larry King's question should be something like, "We think he wrote the note first and then she was killed in the process of removing her from the house." So, how did Patsy Ramsey answer King's question? She said, "I think it was a ruse to throw us off." Realizing what his wife had said, John Ramsey then stepped in and said, "The note was written before the crime...We think it was a kidnapping." However, Patsy Ramsey confirmed what I and many other people believe. That this was not a legitimate ransom note written to obtain money but was written as a ruse to throw the police off.


The Ransom Note

- We know this was not a group effort because of the changing pronouns. The writer usually used plural pronouns but slipped and used
the singular pronoun "I" and "my."
- The writer misspelled two words in the first paragraph but correctly spelled all the other words. This indicates the author is probably
educated but was trying to sound uneducated.
- The writer requested a low and odd amount of money.
- The writer was about to say that they would deliver JonBenet but then crossed out the word "delivery."
- The writer used the phrase "she dies" as opposed to "she will die." This is an indication JonBenet was already dead when the ransom
note was written.
- At the end of the ransom note, the writer referred to John Ramsey as "John." This indicates the writer felt comfortable call him John.
The writer knows John Ramsey.
- The ransom note was 2.5 pages long. The FBI has stated they have never seen a ransom that long.
- The ransom note was written in the Ramsey house with their pen and their notebook.

It is very clear this ransom note was not written with the intent of extorting money from John Ramsey. It is not a legitimate ransom note. No one attempted to kidnap JonBenet. The ransom note was most likely written after she had died. All indications are it was written as a ruse to throw investigators off.
 
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