Sir Keir Starmer

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bluefoot said:
There we have it, our state schools are for the lazy, illegal and woke and we’re just jealous of the decent folk who send their kids to private schools. I recall it didn’t go down too well when I suggested those criticising Sir Keir for accepting gifts were envious of his ‘big house in a nice area’.

Some of the comments being made about people who attend or send their kids to state schools (and/or vote Labour) are really quite disgusting, but not surprising
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Yes, private schools keep the riff raff out and we know state schools are overrun with feral children keeping their teachers in cages suspended from the classroom ceiling.

And people send their children to private school as a public service not for anti meritocratic reasons. They just do it because more funding for the poors. This is repeated as fact despite findings from the IFS that even if some children moved from private to state schools funding would still increase, and the money raised would negate the funds needed for extra pupils.
 
State schools weren't bad when I was young (and I went to one) but I suspect that there's many more problems now.
My husband visits schools as part of his job and he was telling me the other day about how much worse the behaviour of the kids is now compared to before lockdown.
There's plenty of reasons why people who can afford it will pay for their kids education.

We've always had a tiered society and people who can afford it will always have more and better than others. The problem we have now is that the gap between the rich and poor keeps widening so more and more people are discontented and more schools are tit.

The real answer to this problem is to improve state schools so everyone feels that their child has a decent chance in life.
 
Scotch Mist said:
State schools weren't bad when I was young (and I went to one) but I suspect that there's many more problems now.
My husband visits schools as part of his job and he was telling me the other day about how much worse the behaviour of the kids is now compared to before lockdown.
There's plenty of reasons why people who can afford it will pay for their kids education.

We've always had a tiered society and people who can afford it will always have more and better than others. The problem we have now is that the gap between the rich and poor keeps widening so more and more people are discontented and more schools are tit.

The real answer to this problem is to improve state schools so everyone feels that their child has a decent chance in life.
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And surely then with the extra funding from vat they will be able to make improvements.

I think the whole point is if someone wants a luxury good they have to pay for it. Why should they get a leg-up in society and not pay the amount properly owed.
 
The argument about keeping the riff raff out might possibly stand up until you find that the ex riff raff have become fully paid up members of the Trotters Up club.

Pat McFadden did the news rounds this morning with his dodgy property/expenses record. What a dreadful hypocrite smug twit he is. Total crook.
 
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HelloStereo said:
And surely then with the extra funding from vat they will be able to make improvements.

I think the whole point is if someone wants a luxury good they have to pay for it. Why should they get a leg-up in society and not pay the amount properly owed.
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Well I'd like to think that would be the case but I suspect that won't happen at all. The money will simply vanish somewhere else. You clearly still have some faith in politicians, I have no faith in any of them irrespective of which colour they're wearing.
 
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Scotch Mist said:
Well I'd like to think that would be the case but I suspect that won't happen at all. The money will simply vanish somewhere else. You clearly still some have faith in politicians, I have no faith in any of them irrespective of which colour they're wearing.
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They've said the money raised will be ringfenced for the state education system.
 
Just get kids to add-up and speak coherent sentences. Is that too much to ask?

Personally I'd like to see this government bite the bullet and undertake a massive rebuiding scheme; build houses, build infrastructure. Give men jobs. Build. Build. Build. I'm 50. I'm well up for sacrificing the rest of my life to protect young people. To build a better future for them. Hike my taxes up, I don't care. Do it.

I'm no fan of Tony Blair, but his 'education, education, education' mantra resonated with me. I actually went to university as a mature student due to his governments policies. I admit I now have a good degree but am a homeless alcoholic, but let's just gloss over that. 😬

I'm rambling now, but my basic point is this: stop faffing around and DO SOMETHING!

Starmer's problem is that he likes to please all of the people all of the time. Maybe that's the whole problem with the entire Labour movement. The Left just faff. They faff around and nothing gets done. Everyone needs to be pleased all the time.

Hard decisions need to be made. People need to be upset. GET A bleeping GRIP.

(really, this rant is over now).
 
Maleficent50 said:
I’m going to stick my head up here and no doubt get a whole load of abuse.

I am a single self employed mother of one child. I also have a second PAYE job. When my daughter was going through applications for high school she was offered a place at the worst school in the area under special measures. She passed the entrance exam for a very good private grammar school. I decided to pay for her education. She’s a bright but shy child. Had bullying issues in primary school. She’s excelled in private school. I have worked my absolute arse off on my own to pay the fees. We have done without a LOT to do this. I’ve pulled her out for sixth form because I am unable to find the extra money needed with the VAT increase. I have already paid my taxes into the system for a state school place we didn’t use because the school offered is bleeping shite. So come at me with your arguments but it’s people like me - hard working normal parents who will lose out. Bright kids like my daughter who potentially are the future leaders of our country and trying to break out of the shite poor background I grew up with trying to do better in life. Come at me and tell me I’m wrong!
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I was the same, no regrets and I don't care what other people think or say.
Some people commenting have no idea how much behaviour has deteriorated in Schools.
The sad thing is that those Parents that remove their children from their Independent Schools will almost certainly take spaces at the best state schools and restrict social mobility even more.
Tony Blair was lauded for sending his Son to a State School but that just meant 1 less place for a Child whose Parent didn't have an alternative.
 
Notworthy said:
I was the same, no regrets and I don't care what other people think or say.
Some people commenting have no idea how much behaviour has deteriorated in Schools.
The sad thing is that those Parents that remove their children from their Independent Schools will almost certainly take spaces at the best state schools and restrict social mobility even more.
Tony Blair was lauded for sending his Son to a State School but that just meant 1 less place for a Child whose Parent didn't have an alternative.
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Thank you. I’ve taken my daughter out and she’s taken a place at a state sixth form with excellent GCSE grades. Didn’t take the offered private 6th form place because I cannot afford the uplift in fees. (There has been an exodus of kids this year whose parents aren’t rich just hard working folks trying to give their kids a bit of a better start) So she’s taken a place someone else could have had. There are good state schools in greater Manchester but only if you live in the right postcode. Which we don’t.
 
The other issue of course is tutoring. Many richer parents sent their kids to state schools and tutor them up to the eyeballs with the cash they’ve saved. This of course avoids Kier’s VAT on private schools, but creates a two tier system where kids performing the best in state schools are actually being tutored on the side
 
Notworthy said:
I was the same, no regrets and I don't care what other people think or say.
Some people commenting have no idea how much behaviour has deteriorated in Schools.
The sad thing is that those Parents that remove their children from their Independent Schools will almost certainly take spaces at the best state schools and restrict social mobility even more.
Tony Blair was lauded for sending his Son to a State School but that just meant 1 less place for a Child whose Parent didn't have an alternative.
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People criticise Tony Blair for sending his son to state school and criticise Diane Abbott for sending her son to private school. Can't win really can they.
 
Theodore said:
It’s the absolute epitome of the politics of envy. They don’t want people to aspire to anything. Education, property, business, just tax the duck out of everyone who’s trying to do the right thing (the “broadest shoulders” as he called them) but continue to indulge the lazy, the illegal and the woke. All the time while they have their own trotters up at the table. It’s absolutely disgusting.
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What the idiots of envy don't seem to understand is that not only 'rich kids' are privately educated.

There are a fair number of children from the families of Armed Forces personnel who are in private education. There are now worries this could affect retention and future recruitment. A fair number of children with special needs too, as the state sector fails to adequately provide for their needs. Plus those who scrimp and save every last penny to give their children the best education.

Indeed, there was a very good example of this posted by @Maleficent50 a few posts back. However, (as usual) the same partisan types cannot bring themselves to agree with any comment criticising this Labour Government - even when they have policies that match, or exceed the crapness of the Tories.

We know exactly what their continued muted response would have been if the Tories had of enacted the WFP cut. Not so muted!

it is seemingly OK for these Labour politicians to send THEIR kids to private schools, but they don't seem to like others doing the same. How many have publicly slated private schools, whilst later found to of sent their kids to one?

This Government really are 'do what we say, not as we do.'

The simple fact is there should be no VAT on education at all. The kids who are affected by this are all of usual school age (5 -18).
 
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HelloStereo said:
People criticise Tony Blair for sending his son to state school and criticise Diane Abbott for sending her son to private school. Can't win really can they.
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No, people criticised Diane Abbott for her hypocrisy. She was very vocal with her criticisms of the Independent sector previously.
Oh well now all those kids whose Parents were considering Primary age Independent education and would have saved the State system thousands will now be entitled to free school meals.
 
Ofsted registered nurseries don’t pay VAT, and there’s no VAT on children’s clothes and shoes. Of charging VAT on children’s education, surely it’s logical to charge it on all services for children?

I feel the opposite way, I think anything provided EXCLUSIVELY to anyone under the age of U18 and still in full-time education should be free of VAT. Clothes, education, childcare, holiday clubs, extra-curricular, private healthcare, holidays, driving lessons.

The less the costs, the more people will be able to provide for their children. This factor doesn’t affect the rich, it affects the middle and bottom incomes most.

All VAT on private schooling does is remove it as an option for some families. And…as they will be the families who could only just afford it to begin with…they are the ones who are less likely to be being it on a class/snobbery basis. As the earlier poster stated, it’s often for other reasons. Until state schools can deal with bullying and SEN adequately, parents should be allowed to make choices for their children where they are financially able to, without the government intentionally making those choices unaffordable for more people.

How many children commit suicide due to school bullying each year? It’s not financially practical to remove them all from those schools, but for parents who can do it, they have potentially saved their child’s life.

If you have a seriously depressed and anxious child, it’s not like in the workplace where you can hand in a 3 month note for ‘stress’ and have a break…schools are so focused on attendance that if a child is suffering mentally they will push and push them on attendance and just claim they are being too sensitive when they are being g bullied because as well as high attendance another stat they are obsessed with is low exclusion rates, meaning they don’t address bullying either. They will also send work home and continually reinforce that the child cannot have a complete break from thinking about school, even when it’s in the child’s best interests.

Many of the parents most affected by the VAT will be the ones at the end of their tether with their experiences of the state system, and willing to go without normal things they would have spent their money on instead like family holidays or a newer car to pay for it for their child’s welfare.

If we go by the logic that every child should have the same start in life and nobody should have any advantages, so same education, same housing, same clothes, same holidays, same diet, same extra-curricular and same access to hobbies…then where is the incentive for parents to be educated themselves or to aspire to promotions, to work overtime…if it doesn’t make any difference to their child’s life?

I think Labour are complete hypocrites to use the private system for their own kids, and then tax other people for wanting to do the same…they are essentially trying to get the riffraff out of the system and return it to only being accessible to higher earners. They cut of their nose despite their faces, because there are reasons, such as security concerns, that aren’t about snobbery that are caused by their job that may cause a politician to send their child private.
 
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