Oscar Pistorius

1
whathastheworldcometo said:
I just don’t get why he would want to kill her! She wrote him a Valentines Card and even if they argued this is so extreme that it scares me.

I have travelled through South Africa and it is dangerous (was in a dangerous situation once myself and got out as locals helped and protected me) and my boss is from there and had been burgled ten times before she moved to the UK.

I know I would be terrified if someone would be in my house and if I would be less able to run even more so.

Maybe he das a lot of fear due to his disability that he managed to hide well or overcompensated with aggression.

I just don’t get why he would do this on purpose and wrongf convictions are so horrible that I think it needs to be super clear



Well, he “claimed” he believed that she was in the bedroom.

Of course it is only possible to say that he “claimed” as nobody can look into his head
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Was he terrified when he shot off a gun in a restaurant while having lunch with friends? Or for kicks out of a car?

And don't forget that the gun was loaded with exploding bullets. Overkill.
 
Moobiemoo said:
I have watched some of these docs and read things so much speculation and media embellishment tainted so many facts to be honest. It’s obvious that SA feels unsafe to many who live there, and causes anxiety and fear.

The police were not the best on the crime scene (perhaps due to lack of funding) they lost loads of evidence and parts of the actual door, things went missing and the allegation of being called out to a DV incident was nothing of the kind, it was an incident at a party where a woman had been asked to leave

Also the texts pointed out where they were arguing could be read in many different ways, given context or interpreted another way with no context

why she packed up all her clothes - she didn’t live there and they had only dated 3 months so not likely she was going to have her own wardrobe space

It did come across as though he was immature in relationships, had multiple women overlapping, was very insecure and easily upset, and equally excitable by a reckless lifestyle which involved guns. He did not seem to be a great boyfriend and had a critical side. I think he is a strange mix of someone who feels weak and insecure internally so pushes himself hard externally.

His version of events did not come across as completely unbelievable - he asked her to close the door and move the fans before she went to sleep and she didn’t, so when he woke up he was perhaps already panicking a little. If it was really dark, he felt unsteady and vulnerable and not fully awake, it sounded like he could have reacted out of fear and panic of hearing the bathroom window open.

I agree there are questions as to why she didn’t scream, I can’t remember if there was a timeline of how quickly the shots were fired after each other as she may not have had the chance to react in the way you assume (or see in films) - shock often causes you to freeze, going into a foetal position may have been instinctual and if it all happened very quickly, the shock and pain of the first shot confusing her completely. Also his timeline of how fast things happened will not be accurate he won’t have looked at a clock and what feels like 5 mins can actually be 2 mins

I suppose I don’t understand why if having a terrible row, she ran into a room where she couldn’t escape him rather than into the main house. It wasn’t clear whether either of them turned a main light on, she could have taken her phone to give some light on her way to the toilet. He strikes me as someone who is fussy about things like that

The one thing that made me 🤔 was that it showed he had been on his phone (or Reeva had) about an hour before he allegedly woke up to move the fans. So either she looked at his phone when he was asleep (and could have not liked what she saw) or he had already woken up and knew the fans hadn’t been moved so makes no sense why he started panicking the second time

So I conclude I don’t know and never will
I don’t think he rang his lawyer he rang the manager of the gated community to come help him because I think she was still alive at that point

Also as I clearly can’t sleep 😕

I remember thinking about it, what if it was a terrible miscommunication?

Oscar gets up to move the fans. Reeva goes to the toilet and he doesn’t realise (soft carpets, bed doesn’t squeak) both are half asleep

She gets to the toilet and hears Oscar shout there is an intruder. She is too scared to open the door and come out as she doesn’t know where they are in the house, so pulls the door closed and locks herself in. She doesn’t want to call out to him as she is afraid. She hears Oscar shouting from bedroom but he says he didn’t shout in the bathroom as to not give his position away so she may not have realised he came in, she didn’t call out as she was hiding and had no idea he thought she was the intruder, so didn’t alert him. She was unaware he was going to shoot and perhaps thought the intruder was shooting at her

I’m not saying he’s innocent he clearly intended to seriously wound or kill whoever was in that room
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Yawn 🥱 more implausible excuses. Defending DV bizarre.
 
Moobiemoo said:
I have watched some of these docs and read things so much speculation and media embellishment tainted so many facts to be honest. It’s obvious that SA feels unsafe to many who live there, and causes anxiety and fear.

The police were not the best on the crime scene (perhaps due to lack of funding) they lost loads of evidence and parts of the actual door, things went missing and the allegation of being called out to a DV incident was nothing of the kind, it was an incident at a party where a woman had been asked to leave

Also the texts pointed out where they were arguing could be read in many different ways, given context or interpreted another way with no context

why she packed up all her clothes - she didn’t live there and they had only dated 3 months so not likely she was going to have her own wardrobe space

It did come across as though he was immature in relationships, had multiple women overlapping, was very insecure and easily upset, and equally excitable by a reckless lifestyle which involved guns. He did not seem to be a great boyfriend and had a critical side. I think he is a strange mix of someone who feels weak and insecure internally so pushes himself hard externally.

His version of events did not come across as completely unbelievable - he asked her to close the door and move the fans before she went to sleep and she didn’t, so when he woke up he was perhaps already panicking a little. If it was really dark, he felt unsteady and vulnerable and not fully awake, it sounded like he could have reacted out of fear and panic of hearing the bathroom window open.

I agree there are questions as to why she didn’t scream, I can’t remember if there was a timeline of how quickly the shots were fired after each other as she may not have had the chance to react in the way you assume (or see in films) - shock often causes you to freeze, going into a foetal position may have been instinctual and if it all happened very quickly, the shock and pain of the first shot confusing her completely. Also his timeline of how fast things happened will not be accurate he won’t have looked at a clock and what feels like 5 mins can actually be 2 mins

I suppose I don’t understand why if having a terrible row, she ran into a room where she couldn’t escape him rather than into the main house. It wasn’t clear whether either of them turned a main light on, she could have taken her phone to give some light on her way to the toilet. He strikes me as someone who is fussy about things like that

The one thing that made me 🤔 was that it showed he had been on his phone (or Reeva had) about an hour before he allegedly woke up to move the fans. So either she looked at his phone when he was asleep (and could have not liked what she saw) or he had already woken up and knew the fans hadn’t been moved so makes no sense why he started panicking the second time

So I conclude I don’t know and never will
I don’t think he rang his lawyer he rang the manager of the gated community to come help him because I think she was still alive at that point

Also as I clearly can’t sleep 😕

I remember thinking about it, what if it was a terrible miscommunication?

Oscar gets up to move the fans. Reeva goes to the toilet and he doesn’t realise (soft carpets, bed doesn’t squeak) both are half asleep

She gets to the toilet and hears Oscar shout there is an intruder. She is too scared to open the door and come out as she doesn’t know where they are in the house, so pulls the door closed and locks herself in. She doesn’t want to call out to him as she is afraid. She hears Oscar shouting from bedroom but he says he didn’t shout in the bathroom as to not give his position away so she may not have realised he came in, she didn’t call out as she was hiding and had no idea he thought she was the intruder, so didn’t alert him. She was unaware he was going to shoot and perhaps thought the intruder was shooting at her

I’m not saying he’s innocent he clearly intended to seriously wound or kill whoever was in that room
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Yes, I had similar thoughts!
 
Be nice for biscuits said:
Yawn 🥱 more implausible excuses. Defending DV bizarre.
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There is no evidence they could find of any prior DV towards Reeva, although the relationship had warning signs I agree of Oscar cheating, sulking and being critical. That doesn’t make someone a killer although it makes them a bad partner. The ultimate domestic violence was to chase her and kill her in anger. I was putting the other side across, it was not totally implausible that a situation in the middle of the night with assumptions made by both of them could have been a miscommunication

He lived in a country where carrying guns was not out of the ordinary and 1 incident happened in a restaurant underneath a table (made no sense why he wanted to on purpose suddenly shoot a hole into the floor of a restaurant, or anyone else and risk harming himself or his friends) and one was out of the car and not aimed at anyone either. Neither of those times was he in a panic or terror, but I don’t understand how that makes someone a psychopath.

An irresponsible arrogant person, absolutely
 
Moobiemoo said:
There is no evidence they could find of any prior DV towards Reeva, although the relationship had warning signs I agree. The ultimate domestic violence was to chase her and kill her in anger. Although to me, it was not implausible that a situation in the middle of the night with assumptions made by both of them could have been a miscommunication

He lived in a country where carrying guns was not out of the ordinary and 1 incident happened in a restaurant underneath a table (made no sense why he wanted to on purpose suddenly shoot a hole into the floor of a restaurant, or anyone else and risk harming himself or his friends) and one was out of the car and not aimed at anyone either. Neither of those times was he in a panic or terror, but I don’t understand how that makes someone a psychopath.

An irresponsible arrogant person, absolutely
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HE MURDERED HIS GIRLFRIEND IN COLD BLOOD!!!!!!!!!! What are you smoking?!
 
To look at a situation objectively and have various a view points on it, does not make someone obviously ‘smoking something’.

I think it’s irrational to look at something and be 100% convinced and decided, surely nothing is ever 100% accurate unless it happened to you. Even then, you have your own perspective of the situation, and others have theirs.

I already said that we will never know the truth in its entirety, so all we have is the evidence. I’m not a judge or juror and it wasn’t my decision to make convicting him. Society is very quick to condemn people, rightly or wrongly, but there is a concern nowadays that the media heavily influence politics and crime to the point where facts become distorted.

I said that his story wasn’t completely implausible. A miscommunication resulting in a tragic death was his defence and I was exploring that
 
Moobiemoo said:
To look at a situation objectively and have various a view points on it, does not make someone obviously ‘smoking something’.

I think it’s irrational to look at something and be 100% convinced and decided, surely nothing is ever 100% accurate unless it happened to you. Even then, you have your own perspective of the situation, and others have theirs.

I already said that we will never know the truth in its entirety, so all we have is the evidence. I’m not a judge or juror and it wasn’t my decision to make convicting him. Society is very quick to condemn people, rightly or wrongly, but there is a concern nowadays that the media heavily influence politics and crime to the point where facts become distorted.

I said that his story wasn’t completely implausible. A miscommunication resulting in a tragic death was his defence and I was exploring that
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I so agree with you.

I always find it a little concerning if people have a firm view on someone they have never met or something they have not witnessed.

This also applies to the media, their headlines and reporting can definitely influence people
 
Moobiemoo said:
Yes he killed her, is in jail, didn’t deny killing her
The question wasn’t did he kill her it was did he do it intentionally
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yes, he killed her intentionally.

whathastheworldcometo said:
I so agree with you.

I always find it a little concerning if people have a firm view on someone they have never met or something they have not witnessed.

This also applies to the media, their headlines and reporting can definitely influence people
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for fucks sake!!!! He blew the girls brains out deliberately and with the intention of killing her. Yes I have a firm view in it because that’s what happened. It’s disgusting that you lot are trying to defend him or trying to imply that it was some sort of accident or that he was so “scared” that he accidentally stood at a closed door where his terrified girlfriend was hiding from him and shot her multiple times.
 
BettyCrocker said:
yes, he killed her intentionally.



for fucks sake!!!! He blew the girls brains out deliberately and with the intention of killing her. Yes I have a firm view in it because that’s what happened. It’s disgusting that you lot are trying to defend him or trying to imply that it was some sort of accident or that he was so “scared” that he accidentally stood at a closed door where his terrified girlfriend was hiding from him and shot her multiple times.
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There is no need to swear at me!

I hope you offer your services to judges around the world as such a gifted mind reader like you can obviously help to decide guilt or innocence without any doubt (beware of the irony).
 
BettyCrocker said:
He was found guilty. 👍
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We already discussed wrongful convictions. Do you know the movie “Betty Sue Waters”?

Initially Oscar was found guilty of manslaughter, then due to pressure from media and protest groups there was an appeal and he was found guilty of murder. The judge was harassed due to her first verdict, which was found to be too lenient.
So there was reasonable doubt.
 
whathastheworldcometo said:
We already discussed wrongful convictions. Do you know the movie “Betty Sue Waters”?

Initially Oscar was found guilty of manslaughter, then due to pressure from media and protest groups there was an appeal and he was found guilty of murder. The judge was harassed due to her first verdict, which was found to be too lenient.
So there was reasonable doubt.
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you are trying to defend the indefensible. Let’s be Frank, the guy was a loon and he murdered someone. He’s been found guilty. He killed her. That is fact. He murdered her. What else is there to say?
 
BettyCrocker said:
yes, he killed her intentionally.



for fucks sake!!!! He blew the girls brains out deliberately and with the intention of killing her. Yes I have a firm view in it because that’s what happened. It’s disgusting that you lot are trying to defend him or trying to imply that it was some sort of accident or that he was so “scared” that he accidentally stood at a closed door where his terrified girlfriend was hiding from him and shot her multiple times.
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Blimey, you're a bit stroppy aren't you? I can only imagine what you'd be like in the Michael Barrymore thread :D
 
BettyCrocker said:
you are trying to defend the indefensible. Let’s be Frank, the guy was a loon and he murdered someone. He’s been found guilty. He killed her. That is fact. He murdered her. What else is there to say?
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I am sorry, I think you simply don’t understand what Moobiemoo and I are saying.

We discussed if there could have been a different scenario, if what he claimed happened could have happened.

Defending someone means bringing up excuses/valid reasons why someone did something. Eg you defend soneone’s swearing by saying she does it as she feels strongly about it. But there was no doubt as it is proven that the swearing occurred.

We are not defending a murder as we thought about whether it might have been unintentional (which would then be not murder but manslaughter).
 
whathastheworldcometo said:
I am sorry, I think you simply don’t understand what Moobiemoo and I are saying.

We discussed if there could have been a different scenario, if what he claimed happened could have happened.

Defending someone means bringing up excuses/valid reasons why someone did something. Eg you defend soneone’s swearing by saying she does it as she feels strongly about it
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no, I understand what you are saying. I’m just saying that you are wrong.
 
Moobiemoo said:
There is no evidence they could find of any prior DV towards Reeva, although the relationship had warning signs I agree of Oscar cheating, sulking and being critical. That doesn’t make someone a killer although it makes them a bad partner. The ultimate domestic violence was to chase her and kill her in anger. I was putting the other side across, it was not totally implausible that a situation in the middle of the night with assumptions made by both of them could have been a miscommunication

He lived in a country where carrying guns was not out of the ordinary and 1 incident happened in a restaurant underneath a table (made no sense why he wanted to on purpose suddenly shoot a hole into the floor of a restaurant, or anyone else and risk harming himself or his friends) and one was out of the car and not aimed at anyone either. Neither of those times was he in a panic or terror, but I don’t understand how that makes someone a psychopath.

An irresponsible arrogant person, absolutely
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Yawn 🥱 keep on defending a DV killer. If you can’t see it’s wrong to defend a DV killer I am beyond caring for your opinion.

whathastheworldcometo said:
I am sorry, I think you simply don’t understand what Moobiemoo and I are saying.

We discussed if there could have been a different scenario, if what he claimed happened could have happened.

Defending someone means bringing up excuses/valid reasons why someone did something. Eg you defend soneone’s swearing by saying she does it as she feels strongly about it. But there was no doubt as it is proven that the swearing occurred.

We are not defending a murder as we thought about whether it might have been unintentional (which would then be not murder but manslaughter).
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Unintentional? How many times did he fire the gun, without knowing who was in the bathroom? 🤔🤦‍♂️
 
BettyCrocker said:
no, I understand what you are saying. I’m just saying that you are wrong.
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You clearly don’t. A hypothetical scenario cannot be wrong as it was not cited as a fact.
Debates are about exchanging and exploring view points.

But if it makes you happy to be right and snap at everyone who says or does something that you dont like it is your prerogative.

And this is getting too off topic now
 
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