Narcissistic and toxic parents #3

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Just off the phone from NM and I need to rant. As you'll see from my previous posts I'm attempting to go no contact, slow quitting, but with my family. There is an element of guilt when I haven't spoken to them in very long time & my conscious every so often tells me to text or call. I have them blocked from my phone so contact is on my terms now( as I previously felt this effected my mood and mental health too much) so I phone this morning. Haven't spoken in 6-8 weeks. For the 30 mins I was told everything about the aunt who has been diagnosed with cancer, the brother who was told first, the friend who collapsed & is in hospital.

Never asked about me, my life, my kids, my OH.

I come away from the conversation upset, disappointed but then feeling stupid for putting myself through this AGAIN and making calls in first place

I ended the conversation saying gotta go someone at door.

Thoughts/feedback welcome from all xxx
 
not_influenced said:
Just off the phone from NM and I need to rant. As you'll see from my previous posts I'm attempting to go no contact, slow quitting, but with my family. There is an element of guilt when I haven't spoken to them in very long time & my conscious every so often tells me to text or call. I have them blocked from my phone so contact is on my terms now( as I previously felt this effected my mood and mental health too much) so I phone this morning. Haven't spoken in 6-8 weeks. For the 30 mins I was told everything about the aunt who has been diagnosed with cancer, the brother who was told first, the friend who collapsed & is in hospital.

Never asked about me, my life, my kids, my OH.

I come away from the conversation upset, disappointed but then feeling stupid for putting myself through this AGAIN and making calls in first place

I ended the conversation saying gotta go someone at door.

Thoughts/feedback welcome from all xxx
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Good morning - I hope you are ok?

This is what they do... it’s all about them isn’t it. I could count on my hands how many times I’ve been asked how I am, and if I do get asked the conversation quickly turns back to them!
For me, it’s like I sit and incould have it on like background noise whilst I tidy a drawer or do the ironing because it’s never a two way conversation.
For me, I’ve noticed I’m used like some free counselling offload service where she’ll spend the entire conversation droning and moaning and I’ll often leave the call mentally and physically emotionally exhausted I need to nap.
I wouldn’t contact again. The fact you’ve been able to build an boundary where they cannot contact you is amazing. I get the guilt. I struggle putting boundaries in place as I’m the only family really as everyone else cut ties years ago (never understood but now I do).
Take care of yourself x
 
not_influenced said:
Just off the phone from NM and I need to rant. As you'll see from my previous posts I'm attempting to go no contact, slow quitting, but with my family. There is an element of guilt when I haven't spoken to them in very long time & my conscious every so often tells me to text or call. I have them blocked from my phone so contact is on my terms now( as I previously felt this effected my mood and mental health too much) so I phone this morning. Haven't spoken in 6-8 weeks. For the 30 mins I was told everything about the aunt who has been diagnosed with cancer, the brother who was told first, the friend who collapsed & is in hospital.

Never asked about me, my life, my kids, my OH.

I come away from the conversation upset, disappointed but then feeling stupid for putting myself through this AGAIN and making calls in first place

I ended the conversation saying gotta go someone at door.

Thoughts/feedback welcome from all xxx
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It's exhausting having someone talk at you for 30 mins. My dad was the same so I can relate. Because it's your parent it creates a feeling of rejection when they don't even bother to ask how you are. Like you're not as worthy/ interesting as aunt with cancer. I can't imagine speaking to one of my children and not wanting to know everything that's going on in their lives.

Make sure you do something to take your mind of it now x
 
These type of one way conversations are typical Narc behaviour. They are so unbelievably self-centred and lacking in any genuine care for anyone else. I agree totally with the point Good Egg made about them using you as a free counselling service (yet never accepting any real advice). It is important that you made this call as it reinforces what you already know about her and now you know it's not a one-off. It's how she is and she will never change or grow. They just don't - ever. Armed with that knowledge, you can build boundaries or even go no contact knowing that you should have no guilt whatsoever. It is for your sanity.

When I realised exactly what my mother was, I whittled down my time with her until my only contact was a Sunday morning phone call. She would drone on - the minutiae of her experiences during the week, her many problems, her health issues, sometimes some schadenfreud over someone else's misfortune for a bit of variety - for over an hour without a single question to me. I would just coo and nod my head so as to not disagree but inwardly marvel at her self obsession and self-pity. I was left so appalled by these calls. Just the fact that I was closely related to her. Would I go this way? As these continued, I knew she was not wired correctly, would never be interested in me in a loving way and would always enjoy bating me and seeing me unhappy. It made it easier to cut the ties.

And I never looked back or felt in the least guilty.

Hopefully it will be the same for you.
 
I feel this way about my nan and dread her calls but she's in her 80s so I'd feel bad to go 100% no contact even though I barely speak to her now. She revels in other people's trauma too and always tells me about who's dying or ill. She also keeps guilting me into seeing her but it gives me so much anxiety when I do see her but I just can't help feeling bad about it despite how she's treated my parents over the last few decades.
 
justonemorepage said:
I feel this way about my nan and dread her calls but she's in her 80s so I'd feel bad to go 100% no contact even though I barely speak to her now. She revels in other people's trauma too and always tells me about who's dying or ill. She also keeps guilting me into seeing her but it gives me so much anxiety when I do see her but I just can't help feeling bad about it despite how she's treated my parents over the last few decades.
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Yes to this. The visits. TMI -my stomach day of is in knots, I've severe diarrhea and cramps. The anxiety is crippling. If I was ever to mention the distress that visiting them or them visiting me, it would be that I'm been ridiculous or dramatic or imagining things!!

The phonecall has infuriated me. The past few weeks, as I've mentioned here, child sick and sick myself. In and out to hospital for child and myself and it's been so so hard. NM did ask how I was in the initial "hello how are you" of conversation, I said "busy with hospital and doctors etc". The response was "ah sure everyone's busy" then me me me me conversation followed.

It's gradually teaching me no contact is the route for me and my family.
 
Oh @not_influenced. My heart hurts for you. I understand completely. Be gentle with yourself.

This is the deepest wound I have with my mother, the complete, unapologetic lack of attunement or connection to the point where I don't exist in her company. I disappear. My feelings, my needs, my life doesn't matter. It is absolutely annihilating to a person in every single way, and when you think about growing up with this as your mother, since before you could speak, getting the message that you are not real and you are only a 'thing', a character in a play all about her where your only value is what you can do for her. Like you said, the free counselling service. The hijacked accomplishments that can make her feel good about herself. It is a wound of not existing, not mattering and the deep emotional loneliness of it can follow you everywhere.

I don't know if this breaks any forum rules, but I read a reddit post recently that broke down exactly what can happen internally to a child in these moments of disconnection and how our nervous system can go into complete overdrive.

You are amazing for calling your mother in spite of her continued, chronic abuse of you in this way. But you do not owe this woman anything. You are not responsible for her feelings, you are not less important than her, and your life matters, your child's life matters, and you are allowed to do what it takes to prioritise that now.
 
Is it common for them to go off on a tangent talking about personal things happening to other people then? Eg. About their work friends, friends daughters, my old school friends etc?, as my mum has always done this, even though 99% of the time, i didn't know the people she was talking about and frankly, didn't care in divulging into their personal business. She'd use to inform the family chat of when her friends daughters have had their babies, with times,weights, photos, even when they lost babies!! (Yet when my sister had a miscarriage at 8 weeks, she told her it was just a missed period 🤯 my sister was so upset at that and I supported her through it, yet now, she still kisses mums ass)
She'd add all our friends on social media, and still to this day 'loves' and comments on their photos, yet never personally had a relationship with them 🤷‍♀️ I remember posting a family photo after she reported us to social services and she commented saying perfect family, love you all 🤯 (while still chatting tit to everyone behind my back!)
Is it also common that everyone else seems to think they are amazing? Even when I've spoken to others about her and they know exactly what she's like and family friends have even said they've always known that, yet they still appease her. I don't get it?
Meanwhile, I'm left with no one, except my only little family (and I wouldn't have it any other way now) this year has been such a learning curve!
 
They like public affirmation. Even if they don't know the people, even complete strangers, they will prioritise pleasing/impressing them over their nearest and dearest as they garner more narcissistic supply from them.
They talk about other people as they measure themselves against others all the time. Competitive because they are empty vessels themselves. They have no inner life, no empathy or deep feelings. I've read they have the emotional maturity of an average six year old. It sounds ridiculous but it's true.
People appease these difficult types because it's easier. These people are mean, they have no compunction about lying, revealing secrets or spreading gossip for fun. Most people don't want a full on fight in a public place with various acquaintances in situ, or induce the vengeful smear campaign which will occur if they displease the Narc. So they keep the narc happy, they indulge him/her to keep the peace. To start with they may be impressed with the Narc's glib wit or confident swagger but over time they get the picture but still prefer not to rock the boat.
 
FairySparkles said:
Is it common for them to go off on a tangent talking about personal things happening to other people then? Eg. About their work friends, friends daughters, my old school friends etc?, as my mum has always done this, even though 99% of the time, i didn't know the people she was talking about and frankly, didn't care in divulging into their personal business. She'd use to inform the family chat of when her friends daughters have had their babies, with times,weights, photos, even when they lost babies!! (Yet when my sister had a miscarriage at 8 weeks, she told her it was just a missed period 🤯 my sister was so upset at that and I supported her through it, yet now, she still kisses mums ass)
She'd add all our friends on social media, and still to this day 'loves' and comments on their photos, yet never personally had a relationship with them 🤷‍♀️ I remember posting a family photo after she reported us to social services and she commented saying perfect family, love you all 🤯 (while still chatting tit to everyone behind my back!)
Is it also common that everyone else seems to think they are amazing? Even when I've spoken to others about her and they know exactly what she's like and family friends have even said they've always known that, yet they still appease her. I don't get it?
Meanwhile, I'm left with no one, except my only little family (and I wouldn't have it any other way now) this year has been such a learning curve!
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Here here! Yes yes yes yes and yes to just about everything you've said.

The aunt who has cancer is my NM sister is law who I haven't seen or spoken to in about 10-15 years. You may aswell have told me the man on the moon has cancer!! I do not know this woman nor does she know me & I'm pretty sure she wouldn't like everyone knowing she has cancer!

As someone said on last thread they love gossiping and speaking ill of others. I'm not into gossip at all, don't get me wrong I'll read TMZ and the daily mail for the celeb gossip but small town noise I don't care. As someone else said on this thread I could have put the call earlier on loud speaker & walked away! At one stage I looked at the clock and I hadn't "um hm, yeah, really" in 9 mins, she didn't notice!!!

I've a mix of people & family saying aren't they amazing, they do so much & aren't they great. Mixed with that's just them and they way they are & if you want a relationship with them it's on their terms and when suits them not when suits us & those family/friends are willing to put up with it.
 
It's hard because I feel everyone has chosen her over me and my family, when we did nothing wrong. That's why I question myself now? Because why!! We have no contact from family friends we've known 30 years, or aunts/uncles. They used to wish my kids happy birthdays/Christmases, send cards and this past year, nothing. I don't speak to 2 of my brothers at all and it's strained with the others. But I still make an effort with them, it's just not reciprocated. And after working with and having a laugh with my dad every day, for the past 7 years, to go to no contact, is so hard! I will never understand how we went from best pals to nothing but 'have you found a house yet', to nothing at all, in the space of months. Whether he's a victim of her or not.
 
The last time I saw my mother her and GC were in her kitchen gossiping about sister's colleague's wedding. How great she thinks she is, how she clearly was showing off with the champagne, wedding abroad etc. The same colleague I'd been introduced to a few months ago and all smiles, "she's getting married soon, so exciting" blah blah. Nmom has literally never met her. But loves reminding sis how awful she is from the small amount of distorted info she gets about her.

I pointed out how nasty she was being and how she doesn't even know this woman. "Ah for God's sake, we're just making conversation".

The first honest thing she's said in years. For her this is just conversation. Gossip is how she enforces her superiority complex, how she bonds with GC and saves herself from reality. It's twisted. She does it with anyone and everyone too, including her own siblings, nieces or nephews, Mary down she street, anyone who makes an independent decision about their own life that doesn't follow her own arbitrary rules. She's a little old lady in her mid 70s pottering around the place playing the martyr while trashing anyone and everyone. She's mentally ill, damaged, deluded, disgruntled.

I got the "your mother is a dote!" stuff too. Look closely though, sane people see it. My cousin called her a snob years ago, I had no idea what he was talking about. One of her siblings is estranged, on her death bed and refuses to be in the same room as her. Another has a visceral response of exasperation when he sees her. My husband reads her like a book, says she's a pain in the hole and tries to destroy her own kids.

I get the pain of this being your mother, and realising you never had a childhood. But I increasingly just see a miserable old woman who never had the bravery to look at herself, own her faults and mistakes. Clings to the church as if it's going to save her. Never knew how to be a mother so decided to put on a performance of one instead. Never saw her own family for who they were so has to do a PR job on them because she cant face reality. And am so glad and proud of myself for not being a bit like her. Even if she tries to scapegoat me for it
 
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Very confident that I've made a huge mistake.

One of my kids has a "big occasion" coming up & on my other 2 kids when this occasion has happened we've had the event & a party in our home afterwards. I do not want to let my child down by not having the event or party in our home & for their future selves to be annoyed or disappointed that they were treated differently.

But, having this event & party in my home comes with inviting my side of the family- parents & siblings. I sent the text invite at noon, they have read it and not yet responded(now nearly 12 hours later). I am filled with dread and anxiety at the thoughts of the whole thing and now deeply deeply regretting saying yes to my OH that we'd celebrate it in this way. Nothing has been paid for yet & at this point in time there is no financial loss. My OH says if he has to live the next few weeks/months of me being on tender hooks and not enjoy them he'd rather not have it, that we can re-send text saying the venue got the date wrong & it's not going ahead & no party.

One part of me says suck it up & do it for my child. The other part of me is saying cancel and run for the hills.

My mind is doing a million miles a minute, living the conversations that will be had, the comments on my home, what I'm wearing, what my kids are wearing, the food, their conversations with my in laws, the inappropriate comments to my friends/neighbours. I don't know if I can go through with it.

Send help x
 
I have been grey rocking for a few months now. But the guilt and the people pleaser in me has never allowed me to totally go no contact. But today has tipped me. I just can’t deal with them any longer. It’s too long and drawn out and even writing it down (which has proven therapeutic in the past) isn’t helping. I’m currently in the spare room (mr Toes is asleep in our bed) but I can’t switch off. I’m alternating between crying uncontrollably and then feeling so angry I want to smash things.
I have a full day tomorrow 3rd Toe leaves primary school. And we have a full day of leaver’s assembly, limo rides and prom. I have one very excited 11 year old. But NM has pissed all over that excitement. I get that she doesn’t have any feelings for me but her 11 year old grandson. NO just NO.
So the vindictive witch is no longer welcome in our lives. My older 2 toes are well aware of her behaviour and are old enough to form their own opinions on whether or not to allow her into their lives. (I have never tried to influence them but my daughter especially has witnessed narcissistic behaviour from them and has also had to pick up the pieces when I’ve crumbled)
So decision made. NC it is. But how do I keep them from gate crashing? They know where my little toes play cricket, football and rugby. They have a habit of turning up at my house unannounced.
Mr Toes wants me to “have it out” with them. But I’m simply not strong enough. The thought of saying out loud the conversations I have in my head fills me with absolute dread. Years of not being good enough has left me quite downtrodden and not very assertive. I’m also completely over sensitive and am highly likely to begin any conversation with them with an apology.
Sorry for rambling and I know it doesn’t make much sense but I feel a bit better for typing. 💪
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I would say put your instinct /feelings first but when my now adult sons were young I didn't .
I went to family things etc to hope my boys would have a relationship with my family, to keep the piece and sadly that I hoped I could also repair the relationship with my NM and it didn't happen.
I guess you have to trust your instinct and way up positive and negative outcomes but a happy, less stressed mum is the best outcome.
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I replied to NI then I saw your post CT, I don't have an answer but get the feeling of not feeling strong enough to rock the boat/ stand up to them.
The crying out of sadness alongside the anger I had too and still have at times, I hope you feel more balanced soon.
 
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My OH says if he has to live the next few weeks/months of me being on tender hooks and not enjoy them he'd rather not have it, that we can re-send text saying the venue got the date wrong & it's not going ahead & no party.

Thank goodness for supportive partners 🥰

could you suggest a different venue for the event/party and not invite family? I get the recriminations that this may cause after the event but your child would get to enjoy the event without the drama of having the undesirables in attendance!
 
cosytoes said:
I have been grey rocking for a few months now. But the guilt and the people pleaser in me has never allowed me to totally go no contact. But today has tipped me. I just can’t deal with them any longer. It’s too long and drawn out and even writing it down (which has proven therapeutic in the past) isn’t helping. I’m currently in the spare room (mr Toes is asleep in our bed) but I can’t switch off. I’m alternating between crying uncontrollably and then feeling so angry I want to smash things.
I have a full day tomorrow 3rd Toe leaves primary school. And we have a full day of leaver’s assembly, limo rides and prom. I have one very excited 11 year old. But NM has pissed all over that excitement. I get that she doesn’t have any feelings for me but her 11 year old grandson. NO just NO.
So the vindictive witch is no longer welcome in our lives. My older 2 toes are well aware of her behaviour and are old enough to form their own opinions on whether or not to allow her into their lives. (I have never tried to influence them but my daughter especially has witnessed narcissistic behaviour from them and has also had to pick up the pieces when I’ve crumbled)
So decision made. NC it is. But how do I keep them from gate crashing? They know where my little toes play cricket, football and rugby. They have a habit of turning up at my house unannounced.
Mr Toes wants me to “have it out” with them. But I’m simply not strong enough. The thought of saying out loud the conversations I have in my head fills me with absolute dread. Years of not being good enough has left me quite downtrodden and not very assertive. I’m also completely over sensitive and am highly likely to begin any conversation with them with an apology.
Sorry for rambling and I know it doesn’t make much sense but I feel a bit better for typing. 💪
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In my experience 'having it out' with them never works. I attempted to talk to my dad about my problem with him ranting at me about 'stupid' women, teachers, millenials (all the things i am basically), he just told me that things could be worse, I could have fought in the war like his dad 🙄

I also told him that I was happy he had met someone 10 seconds after my mum died (I genuinely didn't want him to be lonely) but I didn't really want him bringing her to mine or my children's events as I found it upsetting enough with my mum missing. He went mad, finished with her and said it was because of me, then told me I was full of hate and that I was lucky I was 30 when my mum died as some people lose their mum as a child 😖

You can't have honest, mature, grown up conversations with these types of parents because they have the emotional maturity 2 year olds!

I can relate so much when you say that you are so angry that you could smash something, your boundaries have been violated, well, you can't even have boundaries with these people, they would just trample all over them.
 
This is my experience too unfortunately. They don't get it. They don't speak the language of emotions. It's like speaking mandarin to them, and they'll turn it back on you, deflect, gaslight, shame, play victim, all the usual tricks.

Accepting that hard fact and going VLC is where all of my healing happened. It's where the anger, grief and pain surfaced. It couldn't come up before then because I was in survival mode, numbing the pain to get through it. "Ah they're just like that, mom just has a hard life/ isn't able / is too old / means well" etc. I was stuck there for years. It might be true. But it doesn't matter. She was a terrible, neglectful and abusive mother. She covered her tracks by protecting her image. She failed me, I was never a child.

I'd also recommend learning about self differentiation. You are not your family and you are not responsible for their feelings. That's been game changing for me too. Terry Wise is good at this
 
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