Israeli - Palestinian Conflict #20

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Charlotte1993 said:
Exactly do they even want Hamas totally eliminated no weapons money in that and no Hamas means no obstacle to a two state solution
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(I've put this in simple terms, apols if 'arabs' and 'jews' is a bit basic. I don't mean to offend. I have a massive hangover)

I've forgotten the details, does a 'two state solution' equate to one government ruling over them both (Arabs and Jews)? Again, apologies I forgot ... maybe by design because it's all a massive headfuck. But I do know that one of the reasons that is massively problematic (for Jews) is because Jews (much like us Northern Europeans) don't breed any more. Sorry to get down to brass tacks, but it's true. The big problem with democracy is that often you don't get the result you want, especially when one race or group massively out-numbers the other due to birth rates. It's a bit like Gerrymandering* by bleeping.

Just look at Jordan. That state opened democracy (briefly) and the Muslim Brotherhood won massive swaithes of the country. So duck that! Now 'democracy' has been slightly 'tinkered' with so that only the mates of the ruling tribe can win. Where is Jordan by the way? They are bleeping quiet. I thought they were supposed to be the moderate voice in the region? Not a word. Oh, that's right ... bought and paid for by the US Government.

Saudi Arabia (as usual) is the key to all this bleeping mess. I don't exactly know how or why, it's above my pay grade. But they are. Ask David Lammy. No, on second thoughts, don't bother. Stay here with us lot, I think between us we know more than the twats ruling us and we'll figure this out.


* In representative electoral systems, gerrymandering is the political manipulation of electoral district boundaries with the intent to create undue advantage for a party, group, or socioeconomic class within the constituency. (Wiki).
 
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Ndrangheta said:
(I've put this in simple terms, apols if 'arabs' and 'jews' is a bit basic. I don't mean to offend. I have a massive hangover)

I've forgotten the details, does a 'two state solution' equate to one government ruling over them both (Arabs and Jews)? Again, apologies I forgot ... maybe by design because it's all a massive headfuck. But I do know that one of the reasons that is massively problematic (for Jews) is because Jews (much like us Northern Europeans) don't breed any more. Sorry to get down to brass tacks, but it's true. The big problem with democracy is that often you don't get the result you want, especially when one race or group massively out-numbers the other due to birth rates. It's a bit like Gerrymandering* by bleeping.

Just look at Jordan. That state opened democracy (briefly) and the Muslim Brotherhood won massive swaithes of the country. So duck that! Now 'democracy' has been slightly 'tinkered' with so that only the mates of the ruling tribe can win. Where is Jordan by the way? They are bleeping quiet. I thought they were supposed to be the moderate voice in the region? Not a word. Oh, that's right ... bought and paid for by the US Government.

Saudi Arabia (as usual) is the key to all this bleeping mess. I don't exactly know how or why, it's above my pay grade. But they are. Ask David Lammy. No, on second thoughts, don't bother. Stay here with us lot, I think between us we know more than the twats ruling us and we'll figure this out.


* In representative electoral systems, gerrymandering is the political manipulation of electoral district boundaries with the intent to create undue advantage for a party, group, or socioeconomic class within the constituency. (Wiki).
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You’re right the thing is they’ve been using the divide and rule tactic for decades if the Palestinians had a unified government especially if that government had a strong charismatic leader it would be a nightmare for the Israelis because there would be no excuses left barring the Palestinians from having their own state.
An additional problem facing the Israelis if the Palestinians had their own state would be the need to resettle tens of thousands of settlers because they wouldn’t want to live in the new Palestinian state.
The last option is one state with equal rights for all but as you pointed out it wouldn’t be a Jewish state especially if the Palestinians had the right to return so yeh Israel wouldn’t be a Jewish majority country and this would only get worse from an Israeli perspective because Arabs have more kids as you said.
There is another issue and that is the world of public opinion specifically in the US where a lot of polls have shown that the Palestinians are being viewed more favourably especially among the younger generation, people are also becoming more secular so the Israelis are losing their key demographic this doesn’t bode well long term for Israel and they know it.
Taking all the issues into consideration I guess they chose Genocide and ethnic cleansing before their time runs out and they are be forced to accept a Palestinian state later down the line.
 
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The two-state solution, if ever Israel and her colonial backers allow it, would create two distinct countries - Palestine would have her own government (possibly two, given the deliberately non-contiguous borders) and Israel would likely retain the Knesset. Any Arabs remaining in Israel proper would remain under Israeli governance, and presumably any settlers refusing to leave the new Palestinian state would fall under Palestinian governance.

I would caution against thinking in terms of which group can outnumber the other by birthrate, though. This falls into the idea of demographic threats and it's... not got ideal historic ties or arguments.
Whenever there is an attempt to have an ethnostate there comes the idea of "demographic threats" - the idea that the "lesser" people or peoples will outbreed you. If your country is truly not reliant on a sense of racial supremacy, these ideas don't get very far.

So long as Israel or any other state provides self-determination as the right of a single ethnicity or ethnoreligious group, the idea of needing to keep the "demographic threats" managed via lesser rights or even outright ethnic cleansing will exist.
 
whathastheworldcometo said:
Isn't Julia hartley-brewer such a bad interviewer?
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Vile woman. I often wonder how people like her ended-up the way they have. I feel the same about Piers Morgan. What the hell happened to them during their formative years? As I've gotten older and looked into personality disorders it does become a lot clearer. Of course, it doesn't change anything, but I suppose at least it's good to know and recognise the signs. As you may know, my massive issue is the failure of the corporate media (don't yawn at the back), they do not want interesting and engaging interviews, they want shouty, confrontational interviews where nothing is learn't.

I'm thankful for the wide variety of podcasts available nowadays with highly educated, interesting people who are leading in their field. As opposed to vile bleeping hacks like Julia.
 
Lammington said:
The two-state solution, if ever Israel and her colonial backers allow it, would create two distinct countries - Palestine would have her own government (possibly two, given the deliberately non-contiguous borders) and Israel would likely retain the Knesset. Any Arabs remaining in Israel proper would remain under Israeli governance, and presumably any settlers refusing to leave the new Palestinian state would fall under Palestinian governance.

I would caution against thinking in terms of which group can outnumber the other by birthrate, though. This falls into the idea of demographic threats and it's... not got ideal historic ties or arguments.
Whenever there is an attempt to have an ethnostate there comes the idea of "demographic threats" - the idea that the "lesser" people or peoples will outbreed you. If your country is truly not reliant on a sense of racial supremacy, these ideas don't get very far.

So long as Israel or any other state provides self-determination as the right of a single ethnicity or ethnoreligious group, the idea of needing to keep the "demographic threats" managed via lesser rights or even outright ethnic cleansing will exist.
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The thing I’ve seen many Israelis post in their comments section (their press ) that it wouldn’t be a Jewish state if it included the wider Palestinian population so I don’t think it would fly with the Jewish citizens of Israel I’m not saying all but a lot especially the Zionist religious people.
 
Veronicaaa said:
Wow I thought the Pallywood thing had died out but they're still claiming it -

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David Mencer spouting holocaust denial here is former Chair of Labour Friends of Israel and great chums with David Lammy.

Current members of LFI include Starmer, Lammy, Reeves, Yvette Cooper and Streeting.

In other news the biggest donor to Labour Friends of Genocide is this mob.

 
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I was genuinely stunned when Israelis were getting on boats to see the destruction of Gaza knowing that tens of thousands of children were being massacred and mutilated for lols, I was genuinely stunned when Israelis sat on hill tops with snacks watching the bombs rain down on Gaza years back knowing that thousands of innocent civilians were being massacred and mutilated for lols. I was genuinely stunned that the Israelis stopped food and aid getting into Gaza to ensure that innocent civilians would die of starvation and preventable injuries. I was genuinely stunned when Israelis stormed the prison, where the guards who’d ganged raped a detainee who later died from the injuries inflicted on him by these guards, to prevent their detention. I was genuinely stunned when the Israeli government had a debate on if the guards should be allowed to rape detainees. I was genuinely stunned that over 10,000 Palestinians, including women and children have been detained without charge in Israeli prisons since 7/10. These people are evil scum of the highest order. They should try living under a brutal occupation, under siege, apartheid and ethnic cleansing for 75 years and see how it feels to be a Palestinian to understand how resistance works.
 
CookieZippy said:
Genuinely stunned to see people praising Sinwan and acting like he was some sort of heroic martyr. He was evil scum of the highest order. These people should have tried living under his thumb and then see what they thought of him. Luxury beliefs of the very worst kind.
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You’ve watched a Genocide that has turned Gaza into a graveyard for children yet people having different views regarding Sinwar is what has stunned you and compelled you to post your disgust wow just wow
 
CookieZippy said:
Genuinely stunned to see people praising Sinwan and acting like he was some sort of heroic martyr. He was evil scum of the highest order. These people should have tried living under his thumb and then see what they thought of him. Luxury beliefs of the very worst kind.
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I was half-listening to Matt Frei on LBC, it sounded like a love letter to the bleep. As you say, 'genuinely stunned'. He had someone on saying how wonderful it was that he learned Hebrew in prison, blah blah blah. What the duck?! I've never much liked Matt Frei anyway, he flounced from BBC because he felt he wasn't getting enough airtime. Absolute diva and total drama queen.
 
Veronicaaa said:
I would say it's more of a 'luxury belief' for someone who presumably hasn't lived a life under occupation, apartheid, ethnic cleansing and genocide, to call someone 'evil scum' because they were born into it, and chose to resist.
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Yeah nobody evil could ever have masterminded October 7th, could they? Those festival goers probably got what was coming to them. Jesus Christ.
 
Yeah nbody evil could mastermind genocide, ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Those Palestinians probably had what was coming to them. Jesus Christ (born in Palestine, displaced refugee…just saying)
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Don’t know about you lot but I for one am sick of those Palestinians displacing themselves, starving themselves, bombing themselves, severing their own limbs, detaining themselves without charge, making themselves have walls around them to separate their villages, insisting their land is stolen, demanding they can’t use roads or water on their land, begging for check points every few hundred yards on their land and raping themselves…for decades. Why don’t they just sit down and stfu whilst European immigrants steal their land, butcher and rape their families…so evil!
 
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CookieZippy said:
Yeah nobody evil could ever have masterminded October 7th, could they? Those festival goers probably got what was coming to them. Jesus Christ.
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What blows my mind is how a nation can continue to have a leader who was in charge of one of the most massive security lapses in Israeli history? In well functioning democracies that person would be sacked for gross incompetence and quite possibly face manslaughter charges.

duck sake Boris Johnson got fucked-off because of cheese and wine parties during lock-down. This bleep 'Bibi' can give the green light to bomb schools, hospitals, and refugee camps. What the duck? Seriously tho ... it's bollocks. It's bleeping sick.
 
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This is not evil, this is self defence apparently 😏 Northern Gaza, those brave Israelis have held it under siege, starved them, sniped and bombed it to tit, now they are they are rounding up all the men and boys probably to hand out food, clothing and candy because no evil masterminds in Israel, just honest to goodness moral defenders of democracy 😏
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Ndrangheta said:
I get it. But who holds a music festival right next to an open prison? It's a bit of a bleeping piss-take isn't it. No exuse mind you, obviously.

What blows my mind is though, how a nation can continue to have a leader who was in charge of one of the most massive security lapses in Israeli history? In well functioning democracies that person would be sacked for gross incompetence.
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This is 2024 people shouldn’t be locked in period especially when half the population are children plus women the elderly and men not associated with Hamas because let’s be realistic how many of us know our leaders/militaries personally ?
The official estimated number of Hamas fighters was thirty thousand at the start so that is a small number compared to the 2.3 million civilians in Gaza it’s clearly collective punishment especially as the majority of Gazans were not even alive when Hamas took over so it’s not like they had a choice.
The civilians on October 7th didn’t have a choice but neither did the many families that awoke to bombs destroying their homes.
The Israelis are the official occupier of Gaza controlling the food, utilities, water, sea, land and air while continuing their blockade remotely with modern technology as such they may have had a right to go after Hamas but they had zero right to kill a single civilian because an occupier cannot attack a population they occupy under international law.
The Israelis are in a position of power and they also bear the full responsibility for the welfare of the citizens they occupy including medical supplies, food, water and the like.
There is no point arguing the above because international law is very clear about the responsibilities of an occupier.
The Palestinians living in an occupied territory have the right to resist their occupation in international law.
www.atlanticcouncil.org

Israel claims it is no longer occupying the Gaza Strip. What does international law say?

The laws of occupation codify a basic principle of humanity: those with effective control over a population have obligations to protect it.
www.atlanticcouncil.org www.atlanticcouncil.org
www.amnesty.org

ICJ opinion on Israeli occupation is vindication of Palestinians’ rights

Israel’s occupation and annexation of the Palestinian territories are unlawful.
www.amnesty.org www.amnesty.org
Sorry I replied to you by mistake 🙈
 
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