Eurovision Song Contest 2024 #4

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CabalofBolorneaise said:
Oh come on. Nobody can seriously say Ukraine’s public vote numbers in the past few years have been “just because they liked the song”. That’s entirely delusional - as delusional as claiming all of Israel’s this year were just because people liked the song would be.
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There have and will always be some people that vote for other reasons then liking the song, political reason, taking the piss voting for the most hilarious performance and so on but the wars in Ukraine and Gaza are two completely different things that I don't think can be compared. Ukraine was invaded, the conflict between Israel and Gaza been going on for decades being the longest on going conflict in the world and I think both Hamas and Israel as a state are guilty and that civilians on both sides are the victims.

When Ukraine won 2022 it was just months after Russias invasion and for at least me living in Scandinavia that war feels very near. People in Sweden, Finland and the Baltic states are born with fear of Russia, it's in our genes since generations way back. So I voted for Ukraine that year but also that song really moved me and I like it. Ukraine are a young nation not participating in ESC for decades like for example my country but they done really good, always reaching the final and three wins, better than most other countries actually. So they have a history of doing good in ESC and so has Israel, but I feel the voting for Ukraine was more genuine from the normal ESC-fans but felt more organized for Israel this year because Swedens and Finlands public giving Israel 12 points, I know those two countries and the public normally like up tempo and a bit of a show, not ballads. And I saw the posts on social media from Swedish right wing politics and opinion leaders cheering for Israel defending their right to compete at ESC rallying people to vote for them and the right wing christians did the same but to be honest, they are not that many in Sweden. We go too Ikea on Sundays instead of the church. 😂 But I did not see that support on social media for Ukraine 2022 or any other year.
 
Nah I agree I loved Ukraine’s song this year but since 2022 they have started with an 100/150 point head start due to politics. This year they were not scoring 300+ public points performing with a slow-mid tempo song in POSITION 2 organically. Last year they wouldn’t have made the top 10 IMO. That doesn’t take away from the fact that they are a Eurovision powerhouse.
 
CovergirlD said:
Nah I agree I loved Ukraine’s song this year but since 2022 they have started with an 100/150 point head start due to politics. This year they were not scoring 300+ public points performing with a slow-mid tempo song in POSITION 2 organically. Last year they wouldn’t have made the top 10 IMO. That doesn’t take away from the fact that they are a Eurovision powerhouse.
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Yeah, I’m absolutely not dissing Ukraine and it was a good song the first year (personally didn’t like last years) but you cannot ignore the massive percentage of their votes that are political. Loads of people on social media were saying beforehand they’d vote for Ukraine to show support and everyone knew even before the contest in 2022 that they would win - the big question was who would come second and who would host it for them.

Some people will equally have voted for Israel this year because they liked the song, they’ve also done well in Eurovision traditionally and recently won it entirely organically with Toy by Netta but that doesn’t change that this year most of their votes were political.

Trying to twist it into “that’s different, it’s insulting to Ukraine” is daft. Both countries have performed very well in Eurovision in the past but recently they’ve both got a lot of votes purely based on the conflicts they are engaged in. Whatever side of either you are on, that is simply a fact.
 
It was uncanny - we sent a golden retriever in human form who could hit some high notes and wrote a nice tune in a stage of pretty lights and we did well.

Mae wasn’t a strong enough singer or dancer and the song was mid-to-bad.

This year we sent a grotty bathroom set, underwhelming vocalist and a song you couldn’t really hear with distracting dancers.

it’s hard to fathom…
 
Vanelope said:
It was uncanny - we sent a golden retriever in human form who could hit some high notes and wrote a nice tune in a stage of pretty lights and we did well.

Mae wasn’t a strong enough singer or dancer and the song was mid-to-bad.

This year we sent a grotty bathroom set, underwhelming vocalist and a song you couldn’t really hear with distracting dancers.

it’s hard to fathom…
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and yet spaceman is the only song of ours from the last 5 years that I never downloaded on my phone 😭 literally find it the most boring song ever but I am SO glad many in Europe enjoyed it.
 
Crazy that after winning in 1997 we can 2nd a year later with a song I wish we won with… one of my favourite songs ever 😍 Imaani- Where are you?



oh the glory days when we were good at ESC…

Another one of my favourite UK entries. Stunning song that I listen to a lot even if her vocal wasn’t perfect on the night. Top 3 is amazing!



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CovergirlD said:
Crazy that after winning in 1997 we can 2nd a year later with a song I wish we won with… one of my favourite songs ever 😍 Imaani- Where are you?



oh the glory days when we were good at ESC…

Another one of my favourite UK entries. Stunning song that I listen to a lot even if her vocal wasn’t perfect on the night. Top 3 is amazing!

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Vanelope said:
It was uncanny - we sent a golden retriever in human form who could hit some high notes and wrote a nice tune in a stage of pretty lights and we did well.

Mae wasn’t a strong enough singer or dancer and the song was mid-to-bad.

This year we sent a grotty bathroom set, underwhelming vocalist and a song you couldn’t really hear with distracting dancers.

it’s hard to fathom…
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Sam also in fairness will likely have picked up some political public vote points too as Zelenskyy and Boris had the whole BFF thing going on round then - I hate Boris as much as most people so don’t come for me, but that was the case then. That combined with him being very popular on TikTok, genuinely enthusiastic and invested in Eurovision without coming across as “I’m going to ace this cos I’m the biggest Eurovision fan evahhhh” and having a good song with suitable staging was a really good combo all round.

Eurovision is riddled with political voting, always has been and always will be. It’s just Ukraine and Israel that took it to new heights and people objecting this year because they don’t feel it should be allowed when it’s for a country they don’t like. Everyone (apart from a handful of dissenters) accepted it and clapped when Ukraine won so tbh they have to accept it now it’s gone Israel’s way. It’s either ok or it’s not, not “ok as long as it aligns with my political beliefs”.
 
CabalofBolorneaise said:
Sam also in fairness will likely have picked up some political public vote points too as Zelenskyy and Boris had the whole BFF thing going on round then - I hate Boris as much as most people so don’t come for me, but that was the case then. That combined with him being very popular on TikTok, genuinely enthusiastic and invested in Eurovision without coming across as “I’m going to ace this cos I’m the biggest Eurovision fan evahhhh” and having a good song with suitable staging was a really good combo all round.

Eurovision is riddled with political voting, always has been and always will be. It’s just Ukraine and Israel that took it to new heights and people objecting this year because they don’t feel it should be allowed when it’s for a country they don’t like. Everyone (apart from a handful of dissenters) accepted it and clapped when Ukraine won so tbh they have to accept it now it’s gone Israel’s way. It’s either ok or it’s not, not “ok as long as it aligns with my political beliefs”.
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Sam defo won official votes from being lovely. He played the game perfectly but I want to believe he wasn’t playing a game and is just a lovely guy. I’ll be raging if I ever hear bad stories about him.
 
Grifty Mc said:
Sam defo won official votes from being lovely. He played the game perfectly but I want to believe he wasn’t playing a game and is just a lovely guy. I’ll be raging if I ever hear bad stories about him.
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This sort of assumes that the public knew he was a lovely guy to begin with. Usually the majority just tune in on the night and we aren’t able to vote unless we live/are abroad
 
Merpedy said:
This sort of assumes that the public knew he was a lovely guy to begin with. Usually the majority just tune in on the night and we aren’t able to vote unless we live/are abroad
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Literally this narrative that he got extra votes for being nice or that delegations gave him extra points for giving them hugs backstage is so… like that’s really not how it works lol 🤣🤍. At most he was charismatic and gave off golden retriever vibes during his song and maybe that made his performance slightly better overall as it would any artist!
 
DanDanTheIceCreamMan said:
Dutch broadcaster AVROTROS statement today (in english on the last 2 pages):

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I still feel like there being a police investigation into his conduct towards a production team member meant the EBU had no choice but to disqualify him - especially as they had what, 24 hours max to decide?

*If* it turns out he hasn’t committed a crime in Sweden (whether what he did is a crime in NL or not is irrelevant) then it’s a massive shame for him but I still would 100% think the EBU made the right choice in the situation as it was. The Dutch broadcaster are being deeply unfair to the EBU here - whether or not it turns out the police investigation was disproportionate based on the fact it existed, disqualification was the only option for me - or the EBU could well have ended up with the SVT production team refusing to produce the show.

ETA: most of the could, would, should criticism for the EBU on this doesn’t take into account how little time they had to decide and communicate everything - and that they were presumably waiting for police updates at the time.

The “Israel weren’t disqualified for bad behaviour and Joost was” is a straw man IMO - Joost was, and remains, under police investigation. The Israeli delegation weren’t. The two situations aren’t comparable as “bad behaviour”.
 
CabalofBolorneaise said:
I still feel like there being a police investigation into his conduct towards a production team member meant the EBU had no choice but to disqualify him - especially as they had what, 24 hours max to decide?

*If* it turns out he hasn’t committed a crime in Sweden (whether what he did is a crime in NL or not is irrelevant) then it’s a massive shame for him but I still would 100% think the EBU made the right choice in the situation as it was. The Dutch broadcaster are being deeply unfair to the EBU here - whether or not it turns out the police investigation was disproportionate based on the fact it existed, disqualification was the only option for me - or the EBU could well have ended up with the SVT production team refusing to produce the show.

ETA: most of the could, would, should criticism for the EBU on this doesn’t take into account how little time they had to decide and communicate everything - and that they were presumably waiting for police updates at the time.

The “Israel weren’t disqualified for bad behaviour and Joost was” is a straw man IMO - Joost was, and remains, under police investigation. The Israeli delegation weren’t. The two situations aren’t comparable as “bad behaviour”.
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Completely agree, they had no choice but to disqualify him. In any other year no one would have argued otherwise.
 
IndominusRex said:
Completely agree, they had no choice but to disqualify him. In any other year no one would have argued otherwise.
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I also think if he’d been a less popular competitor without the sad hook backstory nobody would have argued even this year tbh.

The details that have come out about what happened and the general reaction to it all are all very indicative that people believe women about male violence and threats unless the man is popular/well-liked and then she’s lying or exaggerating.
 
DanDanTheIceCreamMan said:
Results of the EBUs independent review have been published:

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“We have a duty of care for the artists as well but also the artists need to understand that if you participate in the Eurovision Song Contest, what are the rules you’re contracting to?”

This bit is clearly aimed at Joost and is fair enough IMO.
 
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