Delphi murders

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Silverback said:
At the risk of sounding crass, it only takes a few minutes to slit two throats. He said himself he panicked when he saw a van and ended it early (the van that belonged to Mark Webber and became evidence).

Kegan Kline said he knew stuff but it was proven he was in another location at the time. That other guy with a mental age of 7 also confessed but that was discounted because of his mental state and other reasons.

The judge was absolutely right not to let any of that in, along with the Odinist shite. It was baseless. Unfortunately with true crime podcasts, Reddit etc, these big cases get probed for ‘holes in the case’ or ‘alternative suspects’- it’s like it MUST be anyone other than the obvious suspect is to blame.

But no. When someone was at the scene and confessed multiple times, plus a bunch of other evidence, they are guilty. It’s that simple.
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The coroner said it would have taken then around 20 minutes to bleed out. Abby had no blood on her hands. Libby was naked and Abby was wearing her clothes. He had 15 minutes to get them down the hill and across the creek and then kill them? Timeline doesn't work for me.

There were other people around and noone heard anything.

Guns are machine made, any markings on a bullet are likely to be similar from guns made on the same machine unless they ate old/very well used which I don't believe RAs was. Other guns couldn't be excluded as a match but it was definately RAs gun?

Someone else confessed and asked what would happen if his DNA was found on them which was excluded.

I'm not saying RA is innocent but the invetigstion was incompetent at best and I have plenty of reasonable doubt.
 
Libertine1975 said:
The coroner said it would have taken then around 20 minutes to bleed out. Abby had no blood on her hands. Libby was naked and Abby was wearing her clothes. He had 15 minutes to get them down the hill and across the creek and then kill them? Timeline doesn't work for me.

There were other people around and noone heard anything.

Guns are machine made, any markings on a bullet are likely to be similar from guns made on the same machine unless they ate old/very well used which I don't believe RAs was. Other guns couldn't be excluded as a match but it was definately RAs gun?

Someone else confessed and asked what would happen if his DNA was found on them which was excluded.

I'm not saying RA is innocent but the invetigstion was incompetent at best and I have plenty of reasonable doubt.
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I hope transcripts are released because I think there's a lot of misinformation in the case and we don't know exactly what the jury heard.

Some of the news i read said they tested on loads of guns and only Allen's was a match.

He only needed to get them across the creek on 15 minutes. After that he wasn't seen until 4pm. That's an hour and a half after libbys phone stopped registering movement. That's a long time to kill someone.

I personally think Abby might have fainted before she was killed. That could explain the lack of reaction from her.

Other people were investigated prior to Allen and the evidence couldn't stick like it could with him.
The odinist angle didn't work as I believe they all have alibis.

I do comend the jury for what they've done. 19 hours deliberating and almost a month of trial seeing and hearing horrific things.

Those poor, brave girls. It should never have come to this.
 
i fell down a deep dive on this while back and at the time i didn't think he did it

not up to scratch and didnt watch the trial

i did find it odd that the judge wouldnt allow the defence to bring up the other theories
and that the judge picked his friend to be the defence lawyer
 
AladdinSane said:
I hope transcripts are released because I think there's a lot of misinformation in the case and we don't know exactly what the jury heard.

Some of the news i read said they tested on loads of guns and only Allen's was a match.

He only needed to get them across the creek on 15 minutes. After that he wasn't seen until 4pm. That's an hour and a half after libbys phone stopped registering movement. That's a long time to kill someone.

I personally think Abby might have fainted before she was killed. That could explain the lack of reaction from her.

Other people were investigated prior to Allen and the evidence couldn't stick like it could with him.
The odinist angle didn't work as I believe they all have alibis.

I do comend the jury for what they've done. 19 hours deliberating and almost a month of trial seeing and hearing horrific things.

Those poor, brave girls. It should never have come to this.
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The states theory of the case of that they died when the phone stopped moving which is why I said 15 minutes for everything. If RA did do it because he panicked when he saw the van why would he hang around? It doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not arguing he is innocent but I don't think this is justice for Libby and Abby. The state spent thousands on having someone listen to RAs calls but wouldn't spend 10k on a height analysis on the video which would have been obvious whether it was likely to be RA he is short around 5ft4 to 5ft6. Not one witness was asked to identify him. The corner suddenly months before trial said the wounds could have been caused by a box cutter which RA had mentioned was the murder weapon after saying two blades were used...

Sorry something stinks about this case. Law enforcement did a terrible job and I can't get behind this verdict.
 
There's a lot to be said for being in court as a juror Vs reading the reporting and that can have a huge impact. As a juror you see people's facial expressions, their body language, hear the emotions in their voice. In your court bundle you see information that observers in court do not. That counts for a lot. It can give the jury a very different impression to that of an outsider.
 
Shinythings said:
There's a lot to be said for being in court as a juror Vs reading the reporting and that can have a huge impact. As a juror you see people's facial expressions, their body language, hear the emotions in their voice. In your court bundle you see information that observers in court do not. That counts for a lot. It can give the jury a very different impression to that of an outsider.
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I agree. I was a juror on a murder trial a few years ago. After it all finished I read the articles that were written during the trial and I was shocked at how much a misleading headline or the way things were worded presented a very different picture to what I had experienced.
 
Libertine1975 said:
The states theory of the case of that they died when the phone stopped moving which is why I said 15 minutes for everything. If RA did do it because he panicked when he saw the van why would he hang around? It doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not arguing he is innocent but I don't think this is justice for Libby and Abby. The state spent thousands on having someone listen to RAs calls but wouldn't spend 10k on a height analysis on the video which would have been obvious whether it was likely to be RA he is short around 5ft4 to 5ft6. Not one witness was asked to identify him. The corner suddenly months before trial said the wounds could have been caused by a box cutter which RA had mentioned was the murder weapon after saying two blades were used...

Sorry something stinks about this case. Law enforcement did a terrible job and I can't get behind this verdict.
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I read somewhere else about the height theory specialist (think it was websleuths) and it was something around reason there was no point in using one was because it couldn’t pinpoint the height accurately without there being a couple inches discrepancy anyway - so the range would be very similar to what it already was around the 5’6ft mark.
 
I think they have the right guy and finally justice for the girls, just wished it hadn’t taken so long.
The jurors heard all the evidence and took the time to go over it and all 12 came to the same conclusion so that will do for me too.
It was said that he was handcuffed at 2.32 the exact time Libby phone stoped working…..
Hope he rots in jail for the rest of his miserable life, Abby and Libby were just young kids out for a walk on a day off from school they should be enjoying life To the full now as young adults instead they met this monster.
 
Aberscot said:
I think they have the right guy and finally justice for the girls, just wished it hadn’t taken so long.
The jurors heard all the evidence and took the time to go over it and all 12 came to the same conclusion so that will do for me too.
It was said that he was handcuffed at 2.32 the exact time Libby phone stoped working…..
Hope he rots in jail for the rest of his miserable life, Abby and Libby were just young kids out for a walk on a day off from school they should be enjoying life To the full now as young adults instead they met this monster.
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Yeh I suppose the jurors heard all there is to hear and who are we to dispute that. If they think guilty then it is good enough for me.

It said on TV he is expected to appeal, that will be interesting to see what grounds he has.
 
Shinythings said:
There's a lot to be said for being in court as a juror Vs reading the reporting and that can have a huge impact. As a juror you see people's facial expressions, their body language, hear the emotions in their voice. In your court bundle you see information that observers in court do not. That counts for a lot. It can give the jury a very different impression to that of an outsider.
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I don't disagree with this and this is why I think cameras should be in courtrooms. Look at Depp v Heard the mainstream media said Jason Mamoa was a witness (he wasn't!!)
 
Libertine1975 said:
I'm not sure if they came up with it but I've seen people say that Abby was posed like the hanged man tarot card which is based on Odin.

I wonder if it was an FBI theory but not sure.
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They were both in tarot card positions (I saw the picture, I clicked a link on Twitter and the picture was just..there) with sticks placed in odd formations on top of them. Could be entirely coincidental but the poses definitely do look a bit like those tarot cards
 
When you follow a biased person eg Andrea Burkhart, you will form a biased view. None of us were there during the trial so we can only go by the people reporting what happened and some will have their own agendas. I just hope that Richard Allen is the person guilty and he is safe from the public and that it gives some closure to the girls families after all this time.
 
This is a genuine question as I don’t live in the US and have followed the trial via you tube podcasts but are Lauren & Dr John from hidden crime also biased (iyo) as I would prefer to get a balanced view from others if so. Who would you recommend ?
 
I really am tired of the endless conspiracy theories that are ubiquitous now every time someone gets convicted, is murdered or goes missing. Nicola Bulley, Jay Slater, Lucy Letby.

If you weren’t in the jury, if you weren’t in the courtroom you don’t know.
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Naffdoff said:
This is a genuine question as I don’t live in the US and have followed the trial via you tube podcasts but are Lauren & Dr John from hidden crime also biased (iyo) as I would prefer to get a balanced view from others if so. Who would you recommend ?
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Pat Brown. Sensible, and only deals with the facts.
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Libertine1975 said:
and this is why I think cameras should be in courtrooms.
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Why should they be?
 
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I listen to Pat Brown very often and agree she is very well balanced but she wasn’t in court on this trial . I have followed Lauren, Andrea Burkhart & Vinnie Politan show all seem very convinced of his guilt but I’m concerned others (including Pat Brown) were not convinced there was sufficient evidence so I wanted someone who also attended Court to give another viewpoint, if indeed there is one?
 
The Murder Sheet episode on this details a lot of stuff which wasn't in the media and as several people have said we weren't in the courtroom. I feel a bit ashamed that I doubted them to be honest as I forgot how little "we" actually know. But a detailed report on the case would be beneficial, I think, explaining the evidence which wasn't made public at the time.
 
Dollenganger said:
I really am tired of the endless conspiracy theories that are ubiquitous now every time someone gets convicted, is murdered or goes missing. Nicola Bulley, Jay Slater, Lucy Letby.

If you weren’t in the jury, if you weren’t in the courtroom you don’t know.
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Pat Brown. Sensible, and only deals with the facts.
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Why should they be?
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Courts are public places and the public are able to attend court (apart from certain types of cases). We have the technology so why shouldn't the wider public be able to watch the justice system in action.

If there weren't cameras in Depp v Heard people relying on mainstream media reporting would think Jason Mamoa was a witness...

Judge Gull in this case apparently is a big fan of cameras in the courtroom...just not hers.

America has televised trials for years, the jury and victims can be protected.
 
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