Amanda Palmer

1
skronkywildcat said:
Oh wow look at this... I sense AP may have egged these women into coming forward and all is not as they say (but just guessing obviously, and I am very 'believe women' so I hate thinking it) https://www.tortoisemedia.com/2024/07/03/exclusive-neil-gaiman-accused-of-sexual-assault/
Click to expand...

I don't know... how would it benefit Amanda? Revenge, maybe, but she has a child with him. Then again she is a narcissistic loon.

It's dangerous for women to be fans who meet their heroes. We know "groupies" are easy prey for rockstars, but being a man of letters is no different. I'm thinking of David Foster Wallace in particular here, who used his trendy lectures and book-readings as hunting grounds. Or even Julian Assange - I think he did molest those Swedish women during what started as a consensual encounter, and I think that's what plausibly happened here too - fans, delighted with the attentions of their heroes, pushed beyond their consent and unable to stop it. In both cases the women reported similar abuses and patterns of behaviour. That is how they got Saville, albeit after his death - they could trace his MO from numerous complaints.
 
Flibbertigibbet said:
I don't know... how would it benefit Amanda? Revenge, maybe, but she has a child with him. Then again she is a narcissistic loon.

It's dangerous for women to be fans who meet their heroes. We know "groupies" are easy prey for rockstars, but being a man of letters is no different. I'm thinking of David Foster Wallace in particular here, who used his trendy lectures and book-readings as hunting grounds. Or even Julian Assange - I think he did molest those Swedish women during what started as a consensual encounter, and I think that's what plausibly happened here too - fans, delighted with the attentions of their heroes, pushed beyond their consent and unable to stop it. In both cases the women reported similar abuses and patterns of behaviour. That is how they got Saville, albeit after his death - they could trace his MO from numerous complaints.
Click to expand...

I listened to the 4 episodes this afternoon - the podcast definitely leans towards this conclusion, but I'm not sure it's fully supported. I'm not 100% convinced in either direction. If anything, I think NG tends towards younger women with a view to seeing 'manic pixie dream girls' and ends up with complex women who have complicated inner lives. I certainly know other autistic men who fall into this naive and dangerous pattern - naive and dangerous for all involved.
 
Last edited:
Vanelope said:
Neil Gaiman loves his writer rock star persona and also writes some graphic sex plus violence weirdness. I know art isn’t the artist but like I side eye GRR Martin’s abuse of women on the pages I do to any overly titillating violent writing.

I don’t doubt at all he has some very willing groupies but may have crossed boundaries.
Click to expand...
I agree with you here.
 
Why am I not surprised by the massive age gap?

And one of them was his child's Nanny? How utterly pathetic. How very sad midlife crisis of him.

I am going to have to give this a listen. I am not on twitter, so otherwise wouldn't have found out about it.

I agree with the other poster who said that he likes his ' manic pixie dream girls' , but cannot cope when women have complex inner lives.

It has always irritated me how he portrays himself as a feminist, and says things like 'I like stories when women save themselves', yet his adult women are all shallow. The maiden, the mother, the crone, the love interest, the manic pixie dream girl and the witch.

The way he writes about Richard girlfriend in neverwhere just portrays her as a massive witch who is wrong for prioritising her career over Richard and his fanciful behaviour, when to everyone else he is a troll collecting man-child.

Shadows wife in American God's gets to die in a car crash she caused by giving a blow job to the driver, the man she was having an affair with.

In Sandman, Dream literally tells a scared women that he will return one day and take her child away, and she is portrayed as a villainous witch for how she reacts to this.
 
TheStrawberryThief said:
Why am I not surprised by the massive age gap?

And one of them was his child's Nanny? How utterly pathetic. How very sad midlife crisis of him.

I am going to have to give this a listen. I am not on twitter, so otherwise wouldn't have found out about it.

I agree with the other poster who said that he likes his ' manic pixie dream girls' , but cannot cope when women have complex inner lives.

It has always irritated me how he portrays himself as a feminist, and says things like 'I like stories when women save themselves', yet his adult women are all shallow. The maiden, the mother, the crone, the love interest, the manic pixie dream girl and the witch.

The way he writes about Richard girlfriend in neverwhere just portrays her as a massive witch who is wrong for prioritising her career over Richard and his fanciful behaviour, when to everyone else he is a troll collecting man-child.

Shadows wife in American God's gets to die in a car crash she caused by giving a blow job to the driver, the man she was having an affair with.

In Sandman, Dream literally tells a scared women that he will return one day and take her child away, and she is portrayed as a villainous witch for how she reacts to this.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify - I meant that I think NG is drawn to women who he sees as 'manic pixie dream girls,' but quite often that ends up being neurodivergent and/or Cluster B women, and that pattern is dangerous to all involved. I don't want to armchair diagnose anyone, but it's a pattern I've seen first hand with autistic men and 'bombastic' women.
 
Sorry for the double post. I don't think I can edit a post once people have interacted with it.

I have listened to the first 2 episodes and have had a look at what the comments are online.

I am seeing a lot of people saying that they don't believe it because Rachel Johnson is a Terf, so this must be a hit piece. These people need to give their heads a wobble. Just because she has those views, it doesn't mean everything she does is wrong. Also, trying to smear someone this way would be unlikely to decrease support for trans rights.

Lots of people (mostly Americans) taking issue with fact that they are not presenting full sources and are saying things like ' Tortoise media understands...' , and not understanding is that they have to keep within the law with what they are saying and are being careful to phrase things in a particular way for a reason. It sounds like they have been given 'official' responses from Gaiman, maybe through a lawyer or a PR person rather than from him direct, so the way they are phrasing things makes sense


Also lots of people saying Tortoise media is not reputable, which means they have not looked into any of their previous work. They have several other well researched podcasts.


I will probably have more to say when I am done, but I am really surprised that AP has not has anything to say about this. But, I am also annoyed for her, that her creepy slime of a husband was literally bleeping his staff/fans all the time. The disrespect is massive, unless she was also doing the same.
---
f0xmulder said:
Just to clarify - I meant that I think NG is drawn to women who he sees as 'manic pixie dream girls,' but quite often that ends up being neurodivergent and/or Cluster B women, and that pattern is dangerous to all involved. I don't want to armchair diagnose anyone, but it's a pattern I've seen first hand with autistic men and 'bombastic' women.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the clarification. I understand what you mean now.

On a lighter note, after hearing the voice notes played in the podcast, I can not imagine doing anything but shrivelling into a ball of cringe if I had to hear NG do any dirty talk in his very ' I am so British and whimsical voice'.
 
I have now listened to all 4 episodes. Based on what has been said within them, I think it would be hard to prove anything illegal took place.

I did find it especially odd the Scarlet was seemingly flirty and carrying on a relationship whilst simultaneously telling her friends he was abusing her. I also thought it seemed convenient that her friends partner just so happens to be an expert in controlling or abusive relationships ( I can't remember the exact words used).

It also made me think about my past relationships. I can mostly easily remember bad moments from previous relationships and could easily retroactively make a case for poor behaviour from every partner I have ever had, as they probably would for me.

My main takeaway, is that NG clearly handles himself poorly in relationships, and thinks he is some sort of prize to good to be turned down. He is either taking advantage of young people's lack of experience or has no self awareness to understand why people would be so star struck around him that they will always do what he wants.

I was also surprised that he did not deny being interested in rough or ' unconventional' ( being diplomatic) sexual activity and showing little thought or care for his partners enjoyment of the situation. That seems at odds with the way he publicly shows himself to be.

I think it was also clear that he and AP just lack boundaries in general, I have heard other celebrities be accused of this, things like just walking around the house nude in front of employees, thinking it was reasonable to proposition fans or employees. They would probably see it as being artistic or liberating in some way, rather than understanding that it would upset some if those around them ( also see ' sex positive' people who won't shut up about sex and get upset and cry 'stop slut shaming me' when someone tells them that the behaviour is making them uncomfortable)

Lastly, I think we need to make sure the young folk are being educated about what healthy dynamics in a relationship look like so they are confident enough to recognise when something is not good for them.

For example, when K was saying that they were dating but he did not want to acknowledge her in public. Whatever the circumstances, if your partner wants to hide you away you need to walk away.
 
That podcast gave me the serious ick. It does feel like warm up propaganda from Amanda "Feminist Rock Star" Palmer for her new upcoming album.

My take away: Amanda Palmer & Neil Gaiman were individual parasocial groomers in their own respective fandoms, but together they were (are?) essentially super predators who lure in nanny's for weird sexual purposes. Scarlett's story was troubling, from Amanda walking around nude to dropping off the nanny to a home with no child. The fact that they "hire" these young women instead of just getting some solid sex worker to do bondage/humiliation things stands out.

What really stood out to me was the K story and remembering her time in Cornwall. It feels like a possible oblique reference to them visiting Tori Amos, since she lives there, and obviously connected to rape advocacy. I might be stretching it here but it feels like a really out of place comment.

Gaimain has a shady vibe despite the - he gave me a book on understanding the English, oh what tosh, I'm just eccentric - airs that he puts on. Palmer feels more controlling and dangerous. The whole part about whether Scarlet called it rape / not rape is more than just some communication error.

The idea that Gaiman would be telling a young woman that he was suicidal and barely making it through the week feels like pure fantasy, and I imagine he has assistants doing that work for him. That he still uses tumblr is his road to perdition.
 
Amanda's behaviour is odd to say the least. I did wonder why she would ask some random young friend to start working as a nanny. I wouldn't want to just hire someone as a nanny without making sure that person was an actual nanny and met background checks.

I am not sure if she did it deliberately picked her out for Neil or not. Timeline wise, I think this was during the time he came back to new Zealand and they were already in process of splitting up there was a long period of time when they were apart but it wasn't 100% clear what was going on. Maybe they were trying to give things another go.

I do think more could have been done to examine her behaviour in all of this. Maybe something will come out about this over coming days.

I have being looking at what some have been saying in other places. There are lots of accounts and/or rumours of NG acting like a dirty old man, or being grabby. There are also lots of stories of AP being equally inappropriate in her behaviour.

Something I have seen people say elsewhere, is that the open relationship had a rule of 'no friends or family' and this was also meant to include employees. NG has slept with interns and employees and told them not to tell Amanda, and this was a big issue for her.

I have also seen lots of anecdotes from people saying NG ignored them at events and focused on younger or attractive women.
 
WadieHaddadsChocolates said:
I think like pretty much any bloke with a younger-slanting female fanbase, a lot of whom likely match his exact preference (gothy, quirky, artistic types) he's like, to quote Big Male Feminist and Inevitable Pervert Joss Whedon, 'a kid in a candy store'. Like the person above who thought he probably has at some point shagged fans, I can't imagine he hasn't at some point. It's just so drearily predictable at this point. And the 'We have an open marriage' thing with him and Palmer made me veer closer to believing that's likely the case. I doubt he's having affairs with his age-group peers, you know, when he likely has a line of Aspiring Young Cute Female Writers who swoon over him.




Yes, Pratchett wrote women beyond personal sex fantasies. Gaiman, well, a lot less. More like Whedon, tbqh, without going full Dollhouse, of course.
Click to expand...

I mean, I called it a while back. Except I think we're into Dollhouse territory IRL with Neil, the sad old sleaze. Imagine being 60 and still needing to shore up your ego with pawing youngsters.

I don't think there's ANYTHING naive about Gaiman's interactions with female fans, I think it's very, very deliberate to pursue super-young, naive girls, just like any other OLD MAN who does it. Fans are the easiest mark, because they're already in love with an idea of him, and think he is this great person. He can skip a whole stage and get them in the sack without trying. Just don't disturb the image until you'vre already in their bed and you're golden. Fast-track to some easy sex at every venue, really.

Gaiman has always, just like Inevitable Sleaze Whedon, made sure he parroted feminist rhetoric, so he knows creeping after and sticking one's old dick into girls 40 years your junior who are IN YOUR EMPLOY is wrong, and why its wrong. Of course, the NDAs he had them sign contribute to the fact he knows what went on in his house wasn't kosher. He knows how the part of the world that isn't sympathetic to every creepy old married man obsessed with getting his paws on very young female fan-flesh generally views this kind of sleazy behaviour in a poor light, even WITHOUT that allegations of forcing sex on the unwilling.

Also any man who wants to be called 'Master' is inevitably a sad dick. Master of what, Neil? Of your PR, maybe? the decades of I AM SO SO SO SO NICE AND FEMINIST AND LOVELY AND NICE AND LOVELY AND DID I TELL YOU I WAS LOVELY stuff? Or master of not using a hairbrush since 1987?

But again, male artists and their insufferable egos. Nearly all of them treat women like disposable interchangeable tit as soon as they get a sniff of fame that brings easier and easier sex to their doors.
 
sweetnessfollows said:
My take away: Amanda Palmer & Neil Gaiman were individual parasocial groomers in their own respective fandoms, but together they were (are?) essentially super predators who lure in nanny's for weird sexual purposes. Scarlett's story was troubling, from Amanda walking around nude to dropping off the nanny to a home with no child. The fact that they "hire" these young women instead of just getting some solid sex worker to do bondage/humiliation things stands out.
Click to expand...

Well, Amanda didn't think musicians were worth paying on her kickstarter tour, so why would she deign to pay a prostitute?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top