2024 US Election #3
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Dollenganger
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Thanks Yel, I seem to be unable to post a thread without messing it up 
One thing that I’ve been wondering about is the transition. When Biden won, in 2020, Trump refused to help with the power transition. Luckily, the Biden administration is fully supportive to enable the upcoming transition back to Trump. But I’m not sure if Trump is likely to engage with that tbh.
One thing that I’ve been wondering about is the transition. When Biden won, in 2020, Trump refused to help with the power transition. Luckily, the Biden administration is fully supportive to enable the upcoming transition back to Trump. But I’m not sure if Trump is likely to engage with that tbh.
Onetwofour
VIP Member
The last numbers indicate that the turnout was lower but not that low as first projected.
As for people saying Democrats have been severely beaten up the total numbers don't give that picture. More people voted for Trump but only by a margin of 1,5%. What made Trump successful is that he managed to appeal to more sections of society - especially in the rural states. That's where the Democrats failed but by looking at the number of people who voted Harris, she still had a significant number of voters.
American elections are tight and everything can change. Biden won the popular vote by a higher margin but it didn't prevent Trump to win 4 years later. Since 2000 Democrats and Republicans controlled the White House 12 years each. In the decades before 2020 the margin for the winner of the presidential were significantly higher in term of the popular vote. For the electoral college, there were red waves or blue waves where most of the electoral votes were going to one candidate. It didn't prevent the other party to have a great comeback one or two terms later.
For all the doom and gloom talks about the Democrats nothing from the previous presidentials don't indicate they are over. Trump had a great victory but many presidents before him had a stronger mandate than him. In our current time where elections are tighter this makes much harder for elected president to make a lot of changes. True, Trump has the Senate and the House for the next 2 years but if he doesn't manage to convince people this could change. I wonder if in a way this is preventing the various governments in power to enact significant changes as they know that the next elections are hanging on a thread. This brings political stagnation and then voters are frustrated and then vote for the other party.
As for people saying Democrats have been severely beaten up the total numbers don't give that picture. More people voted for Trump but only by a margin of 1,5%. What made Trump successful is that he managed to appeal to more sections of society - especially in the rural states. That's where the Democrats failed but by looking at the number of people who voted Harris, she still had a significant number of voters.
American elections are tight and everything can change. Biden won the popular vote by a higher margin but it didn't prevent Trump to win 4 years later. Since 2000 Democrats and Republicans controlled the White House 12 years each. In the decades before 2020 the margin for the winner of the presidential were significantly higher in term of the popular vote. For the electoral college, there were red waves or blue waves where most of the electoral votes were going to one candidate. It didn't prevent the other party to have a great comeback one or two terms later.
For all the doom and gloom talks about the Democrats nothing from the previous presidentials don't indicate they are over. Trump had a great victory but many presidents before him had a stronger mandate than him. In our current time where elections are tighter this makes much harder for elected president to make a lot of changes. True, Trump has the Senate and the House for the next 2 years but if he doesn't manage to convince people this could change. I wonder if in a way this is preventing the various governments in power to enact significant changes as they know that the next elections are hanging on a thread. This brings political stagnation and then voters are frustrated and then vote for the other party.
Doc
VIP Member
Copied from last thread:
This actually encapsulates PERFECTLY what I suggested about the sources. Compare and contrast the quoted video with the unclipped original (timestamp 5:50). Got to be so careful, it happens on both sides btw.
2024 US Election #2
People can have very different opinions on issues like abortion and none of them are wrong. They just see the issues from different perspectives. Its like some people have literally no ability to respect another’s right to hold a different opinion. I guess that’s why they end up spending their...
tattle.life
This actually encapsulates PERFECTLY what I suggested about the sources. Compare and contrast the quoted video with the unclipped original (timestamp 5:50). Got to be so careful, it happens on both sides btw.
Ultimate Lurkee
VIP Member
Thanks Yel, I seem to be unable to post a thread without messing it up
One thing that I’ve been wondering about is the transition. When Biden won, in 2020, Trump refused to help with the power transition. Luckily, the Biden administration is fully supportive to enable the upcoming transition back to Trump. But I’m not sure if Trump is likely to engage with that tbh.
How would Trump spin not engaging as a positive given that he won I wonder?
Dollenganger
VIP Member
I should imagine that trying to have a conversation with him might feel like you’ve woken up in Alice’s wonderland. I remember news anchors in the last Trump era, arguing with members of his administration on live TV when they tried to argue that what they were saying was simply ‘alternative facts’. To which the news anchor would reply something along the lines of ‘that’s falsehoods’.
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This actually encapsulates PERFECTLY what I suggested about the sources. Compare and contrast the quoted video with the unclipped original (timestamp 5:50). Got to be so careful, it happens on both sides btw.
Time will tell as to whether it’s bluster. Some of the Americans I know are a little bit rattled. Please can you tell me what it says at 5.50 cause I’m not able to click through to it and there are so many videos about him on YouTube that I can’t find that exact one TIA.
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Doc
VIP Member
He may well have said it, it's just in that particular example:
CBS Reporter: *After Donald Trump's felony conviction in New York, his allies are seeking revenge and calling for retaliatory actions against Democrats. The former President talked to Sean Hannity about this on Fox News last night."
Cuts to Trump interview, Trump: "... what I have gone through, nobody has ever gone through. I am a very legitimate person and I built a great business. Everything has been - I have been - under siege [jump cut] and it has to stop because otherwise we will not have a country. When this election is over, based on what they have done, I would have every right to go after them...[fade cut]"
What actually is said is (in bold the only bits CBS kept);
Hannity: "My question to you is very serious, as they're claiming you want retribution and people are claiming that's been done to Democrats."
Trump: "What's happened to me has never happened in this place before, and it has to stop..."
Hannity: "Wait, I want to hear that again, 'It has to stop'..."?
Trump: "Well, it does have to stop or we won't have a country..."
Hannity: "If you're elected, what does that mean? Define that."
Trump: "What I have gone through, nobody has ever gone through. I am a very legitimate person and I built a great business. Everything has been - I have been - under siege - nobody's ever seen anything like this in our country. In other countries, in third world countries where there's banana republics... we've become a banana republic... at the border we are a banana republic with so many other elements of the country we've become a banana republic. You look at what's happening with inflation, it's banana republic inflation. When you add everything in with energy prices and interest rates, going on from around 2%..."
Hannity: Let's focus on those who believe you want retribution, that you would use the system of justice to go after your political enemies"
Trump: "Number one, they are wrong and it has to stop because otherwise we're not going to have a country.
When this election is over, based on what they have done, I would have every right to go after them and it would be easy because it's Joe Biden and you can see all the criminality." [rambles on about what he believes to be corruption from Biden]
Hannity: "When you pledge to restore equal justice and application of the laws and the practice of weaponisation, is that a promise you will make?"
Trump: "You have to do it. It's awful, and I know you want me to say something else..."
Hannity: "No I don't want you to..."
Trump: "I don't want to look naive [rambles on about what's been done to him and Republicans] We can't let this happen, I would do everything in my power not to let is happen. There's tremendous criminality here, what they're doing to me, if it's continues, we're really not going to have much of a country left. It IS weaponisation. You call it 'lawfare', some people call it just 'warfare', but it is weaponisation of the election [rambles about why election is important]. We can't have this stuff go on because you know what, when Biden goes out and everyone says 'bye-bye', and he gets indicted 2 days later and they go after him? The country doesn't want that. And you know what? They didn't want it with Hillary Clinton either. Everyone was, 'lock her up, lock her up, lock her up". I was at a UFC fight the other night [gets distracted by Hannity and rambles on a sidetrack fight story] after we won against Hillary, people would say 'lock her up, lock her up' and I said, 'wouldn't it be terrible if I locked up the wife of the President of the United States former? And locked up the former Secretary of State.' It's a terrible thing. You know, I want to bring the country together. And success does bring the country together. [starts talking about the economy]"
It's a very different message to the one presented by CBS.
bubbadabut
VIP Member
I wonder if he ever thinks about the assassination attempt, the fact that he turned his head slightly as the shot was fired, ensuring his survival. That would give a lot of people a God complex, but he most likely already had one.
His head is shaped like a balloon here. How does he even breathe with his shirt collar that tight?
Why does he do that "big fish, little fish, cardboard box" thing with his hands when he talks? It's very distracting.
So many questions. Such a strange man.
His head is shaped like a balloon here. How does he even breathe with his shirt collar that tight?
Why does he do that "big fish, little fish, cardboard box" thing with his hands when he talks? It's very distracting.
So many questions. Such a strange man.
Dollenganger
VIP Member
Well, my own theory about this is that since he’s (in my opinion) a sociopath, he probably doesn’t empathise with his future self and will be unconcerned about the possibility of his own demise. This is something that diagnosed sociopaths say and it’s very interesting. At this point, arguably, he should have more security than ever in case of further attempts on him. I wonder whether he will not address this, won’t see the importance of it and will, as a result put himself (and others) in further danger. I hope he listens to his advisors to avoid such a thing.
bubbadabut
VIP Member
Whatever you think of the Ukraine situation, what is the need for this? Stay classy, Trump family.
All the Trump kids are pretty unbearable, but Don Jr is the worst.
All the Trump kids are pretty unbearable, but Don Jr is the worst.
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Doctor_Wibble
VIP Member
Apparently (from unnamed sources) Trump has spoken to Putin and warned him not to escalate in Ukraine, but Kremlin has issued an official denial so now reality is imploding as we now face the prospect of the Kremlin telling the truth 
Fake News!!! He doesn't do 'cardboard box'.
Anyway it's not big fish little fish, it's an accordion
Fake News!!! He doesn't do 'cardboard box'.
Anyway it's not big fish little fish, it's an accordion
miss n thropy
VIP Member
I have so many questions. I don’t think Trump speaks Russian and I’ve never heard Putin speak English so was this whole exchange conducted through an interpreter?
And however you might feel about Trump, surely you have to admit that this anecdote is nothing short of hilarious xx
Dollenganger
VIP Member
Don Jr is apparently so much like his father that they clash and argue all the time. Were it not for this, I think he’d have a prominent position in the Trump administration 2.0. I think we’re in for a pantomime of hiring and firing like last time.
Apologies if this was discussed on the last thread (stopped following, life intervened lol but I did skim and the level of discussion and debate was excellent as usual) but - I am so, so pleased that Trump has pledged to end transgender surgeries on minors. Under Biden, 14,000 children have had breasts amputated, penises removed, puberty blocked all directly resulting in a myriad of future health problems. Some of the deaths have been tragic especially Griffen Sivret who died a few months ago after several years of pure pain.
The UK seems to have decisively turned away from this horrible medical abuse of (often autistic, traumatised and/or mentally ill) children under the very sensible Wes Streeting (who I would love to see as a future Labour leader I think he's excellent) and I really hope Trump does what he says he'll do in this area.
I also hope to see Planned Parenthood return to its original role as facilitating reproductive health, it is needed in the US more than ever. Over the past 5 years it has put more resources into puberty blockers than it has reproductive health, which is shameful given that Roe v Wade was overturned on their watch and they barely made a peep about it.
The UK seems to have decisively turned away from this horrible medical abuse of (often autistic, traumatised and/or mentally ill) children under the very sensible Wes Streeting (who I would love to see as a future Labour leader I think he's excellent) and I really hope Trump does what he says he'll do in this area.
I also hope to see Planned Parenthood return to its original role as facilitating reproductive health, it is needed in the US more than ever. Over the past 5 years it has put more resources into puberty blockers than it has reproductive health, which is shameful given that Roe v Wade was overturned on their watch and they barely made a peep about it.
AdApathy
VIP Member
Could you point me in the way of a neutral outlet for this? I'm looking online and it's coming from places like Fox News and the New York Post. I'm not saying it's true or false, but they're not news outlets I'd rely on to give the full picture. Same for if the Daily Mail printed it.
also, puberty blockers are also used in children with precocious puberty (very very early puberty) so I would imagine those cases fall under that 14,000 number. For what I've read about puberty blockers in general, the risks of using them (as they're not permanent) are probably the same as the risks I and many women were susceptible to when our doctors put us on hormonal birth control aged 13.
miss n thropy
VIP Member
Completely agree if Planned Parenthood missed an opportunity to denounce the overturning of Roe v Wade. That would seem to be a missed opportunity but so am not well informed about it.
It’s interesting how statistics can be so different though, a study by a Harvard school showed the following statistics, “For teens ages 15 to 17 and adults ages 18 and older, the rate of undergoing gender-affirming surgery with a TGD-related diagnosis was 2.1 per 100,000 and 5.3 per 100,000, respectively”. It also stated that a much smaller percentage of people have regrets under the surgery compared with other similar surgeries. (By that I assume they meant cosmetic procedures but I’m not quite sure)
It is horrific that the child you mention died in pain though.
I read that as as the percentage of those having a TGD related diagnosis but I’ll admit, I have no idea how many young people have a TGD diagnosis but surely it would have to be millions to get the statistics that you have found?(not disputing them by the way, I just went looking for some as I found your post interesting.)
BTW, I have very conflicted views on the whole topic, most of which are only based on anecdotal encounters I have had and completely understand the very polarising nature of the issues. I’m certainly no expert and my opinion is just that.
Edited to add: the data above is based on 2019 data, but this is because the researchers stated that there was no other reliable nationwide data since. It would still demonstrate an exponential growth though to get to the figures you have stated.
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Doc
VIP Member
It's on his Agenda 47 website:
AdApathy
VIP Member
I meant the 14,000 figure, but thanks for this. Makes for interesting reading.
Like @miss n thropy I have conflicting views too. A lot of things fall under the umbrella term "gender affirming care" and stripping things entirely because of one's feelings about transgenderism in general makes me uncomfortable.
Transgender surgeries and hormone blockers. Hormone blockers and puberty blockers are not neutral interventions. Side effects include anorgasmia, infertility, osteoporosis and neurological damage. All of these side effects are permanent. So called puberty blockers are rarely used for precocious puberty now after a class action was brought by a group of women who had been prescribed them for precocious puberty and were left with permanent disabilities and chronic health conditions. (The tiny number of kids with precocious puberty was stripped out for the purposes of the study reported by Reuters tho)
It amounts to medical abuse of a very vulnerable cohort (gender confused children). It would be a huge win for child protection if it was stopped.