Womanhood and injustices against women

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great thread idea and some great points raised!

House of Tea said:
I believe the rise in girls claiming to be non-binary is a result of toxic masculinity. Trying to withdraw from the “game”.
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this paticularly isn't something I'd considered but makes a lot of sense. similarly but not the same, before I ended up with my (male) partner who I'd actually known for years, I'd completely stopped online dating men and exclusively chatted to/met women (I'm bisexual) simply because of how disgusting the majority of men I came across onlien dating. luckily mr traaazers is amazing and we have some really good conversations about how life is now for both women and men and how dangerous it all is
 
BiffasBeemer said:
As I said on the Celeb Gossip thread, men think that women love this stuff because the women on the videos are.

No doubt some of them may enjoy that, but it needs to be remembered they are getting paid for that and their job is to look like they are enjoying themselves. Also I expect if they refuse certain acts their career and earnings will drop.

I remember even in the 2000's getting called boring for not wanting to do certain sexual things, so I imagine it must be horrific now. Girls thinking they need to do stuff they are not comfortable with. I have heard young girls talking about how being choked makes them horny - just to impress guys who will then think they are "wild in bed".

I know women who played up pretending to be lesbian just to pull guys.

I think porn has its place for sure and if everyone is consenting it is generally ok.

But I do think it gives young men unreal expectations of what a healthy sexual relationship is like.
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yes to all of this :(

the surge in “popularity” of choking makes me sick. i am, regrettably, online dating and it’s horrific to see how many men have this or “i’m a dom” or “dating me is like dating mr grey” in their profiles. all things completely designed to give the man all the power in the situation while girls are told they’re being so fun and adventurous. i once replied to a guy (in a bad mood) with this in his profile asking if he was down for me to choke HIM, funnily enough his kink only extended to him doing the choking. i wonder why.
 
Flowergirl14 said:
I hate myself for saying this as I really should rise above it, but I am not a fan of men at the moment. Saying that despite having a lovely son, and my late brother and father were lovely men.
But why is there so much toxic male behaviour around at the moment.
That beautiful young teenage girl that was knifed to death in London yesterday, the Sarah Everard case....I could go on forever...
What is the answer?
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You’re not alone! And I would hope it’s quite normal to feel like this, given the various levels of violence women are subjected to on a daily basis. I definitely feel the same some days. Sending hugs 🤗
 
A woman has been murdered today in Ireland
apparently beaten to death with a sledgehammer by her sixteen year old stepson who streamed the act live online with video footage circulating on social media
And that is what is tormenting me. It isn't enough just to kill a woman now, there is some kind of social credit to be gained from sharing the act and further terrifying women. I am so tired and frightened.
 
This is a great idea for a thread.

I caveat this by saying I don’t know how widespread this attitude is, but I’m surprised and saddened at how many younger men seem to feel that feminism has gone too far and are deliberately pushing back on it. This is just one example but it kind of summed up a general impression I’d had.

An older man held a door open for me at the gym and said ‘ladies first’. It was polite and I thanked him. Three men in their 20s were behind me and started jeering stuff like ‘not in my book’, ‘not any more they aren’t‘ etc. I was quite startled by it because they clearly meant me to hear and it felt pretty unsettling that they felt they needed to send that message to me.

A few years ago, I genuinely felt that misogyny was in decline but it now feels quite the opposite.
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I’m really, really, really glad that I’m no longer in the dating game. Everything I hear about the men in it is horrifying.
 
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The explosion in porn and the increasing acceptance of prostitution has a lot to do with it.

Mainstream porn, the sort we used to find in hedges and giggle at, used to be pictures of naked models with bad hair, shoving their breasts towards their chins with their hands and posing suggestively with random objects. Now this isn't enough. Porn "has" to be violent and humiliating. When I was a teenager in the 1990s, we knew what anal was and we had some idea that some weird people were into spanking. Strangulation was really not a thing, apart from in crime stories.

Our sex and relationship advice tended to come from older women, either through magazines or from women like school nurses, who weren't afraid to tell us that we didn't need to be having sex and perhaps shouldn't be. We were told frankly that boys and men our age often had crap personal hygiene and having a lot of sex with them could lead to thrush and cystitis, as well as pregnancy and real STDs. We were definitely warned that really rough penetration could cause cysititis by forcing fluids the wrong way, and could even make us more vulnerable to cervical damage or cervical cancer.

Now, everything has to have a vague positive spin on it so as not to "shame" anyone, and sex ed is delivered by people with agendas.

I really hate how wanting sex to be fun and loving and easy is seen as boring now. Sneered at as "vanilla".
 
petitspois said:
Some of the Mum's I see with teenage boys say things like 'well it was the same when my husband was a boy' not understanding that it really really wasn't. They now have access to hardcore porn 24/7 and no experience of normal sex so that's what they think is normal. Add in the horrible influencers online and it's a potent mix that can only harm. And harm them as much as women.

When I come across someone who has a son or stepson who doesn't work and stays in his bedroom most of the time I ask what he does and it's always something like 'plays games' or 'watches box sets'. It's such a red flag for me.
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I’ve had a couple of glasses of wine so this may not be as eloquent as I’d like it to be..
I totally agree with all you say in the first para but I’d also be mindful about the staying in their room thing. My son is 10 and - most probably - neurodiverse. I can totally see the teenage years as a time when he’ll spend a lot of time on his room to decompress. I feel like the current male culture is going to hit him hard. He already struggles to make sense of the world and needs time alone to be away from it all. God knows how it’s going to be for him in the teenage years. I guess all I’m saying is sometimes boys may also find it hard to make sense of all of this and maybe the separation from the world is sometimes a necessary thing x
 
House of Tea said:
I feel like men feel we have got too much power, we have become too uppity. The next generations seemed to be handling it better. The guys of 30 different to 50s etc. they had been brought up with equalities and it did feel like things were getting better. Not perfect, still misogynistic but less overt.

However, things have now taken a disturbing dive. The likes of Andrew Tate are pulling in the young, I fear we have only seen the start of something that is going to be devastating for every one- men and women. Add in porn. Add in social media. Add in dares on TikTok. The effects of lockdown. A few years ago Lawrence Fox would not have said what he did this week publically. Sure, he has lost that gig, and hopefully his dumbo sidekick Wootten, but the men (and women wtf?) were supportive of him and the public airing of his type of take on the world trickles down to others and gets added into the toxic stew.

Editing to add - cost of living has exacerbated anger. People are angry and when they are angry with no power to change anything, the dominant look around for victims to kick.
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Yes this is all so true. The amount of women supporting Russell Brand has been depressing - 'if it was true these women would have spoken up years ago', and things like he's so rich he doesn't have to assault women.
I wonder has the equality for gay and trans people made some men worse and more 'alpha'?
As an aside there is a thread on here about horrible experiences at school and quite a few mention girls being assaulted by boys - groping them, exposing themselves, lifting up their skirts, saying disgusting things - with nothing being done about it. I have a small granddaughter and genuinely am worried about the world she is entering.
 
I was watching a report on YT regarding the horrible gun crime in Rotterdam. There were comments about the woman reporter being useless at her job and then this charming comment.
"She was probably distracted because ten minutes earlier she'd been taking it up the shitter"
I did report it but there wasn't really any category to cover "keep your vile comments to yourself " the fact he'd even said it, thought that is disturbing and no doubt that's a "vanilla" comment.
 
I was driving through a bit of Croydon at midnight last night (by Fairfield Halls if you know the area). I never go there but I had been to a concert at the O2 (New Order, bloody marvellous) and the sat nav directed us to drive through there. It was very quiet, not really anyone around which seemed odd. The only people I saw were youth in twos and threes - with masks over their faces and hoods up. People can wear what they like, but these little shits have taken over that area judging by the lack of other people (men and women), there is absolutely no need for them to wearing masks to cover their faces. Covid was great for yobs, it legitimised face coverings.
 
I was talking to a friend a few weeks ago about this. It feels harder than ever to be a woman to be honest. I’d experienced rape, an abusive relationship, harassment in the workplace all before the age of 25 and as I’ve opened up more about what I’ve experienced I realise that pretty much every woman I know has experienced at least one of those things and sometimes without realising. I know it’s not all men, but I’m sick of explaining even to “allies” why their behaviour is problematic and why the world isn’t set up for women to succeed.

On the subject of wages and pay (just wanted to get this off my chest tbh). I worked at a company that is constantly saying how progressive, diverse and equality driven they are- they still ride on the positive story of having a female CEO. Pay was structured into bands depending on job level and performance. A friend moved to my team from one that sat adjacent and while I was there he was 1-2 job levels below me and had a lot less responsibility and performance wise he wasn’t great. Fast forward to a month or so ago, I’ve been gone from that company a while. He messaged me asking what salary I was on when I left my job. I’m quite open about those things so told him and asked why. He’d asked me because he’d been promoted to the level I was when I left but hadn’t received much of a pay increase. Turns out he was on pretty much the same salary as me after a couple of years at that level vs him just starting out. And throughout me being there he was being paid more to do less work and have less responsibility. Also when negotiating with management about a counter offer it was revealed that for the next job level, the lowest paid person was a woman.

And that female ceo? All she used to do was yank up the ladder so no other women could succeed there unless they also were a part of the boys club.
 
Leonard said:
I’ve had a couple of glasses of wine so this may not be as eloquent as I’d like it to be..
I totally agree with all you say in the first para but I’d also be mindful about the staying in their room thing. My son is 10 and - most probably - neurodiverse. I can totally see the teenage years as a time when he’ll spend a lot of time on his room to decompress. I feel like the current male culture is going to hit him hard. He already struggles to make sense of the world and needs time alone to be away from it all. God knows how it’s going to be for him in the teenage years. I guess all I’m saying is sometimes boys may also find it hard to make sense of all of this and maybe the separation from the world is sometimes a necessary thing x
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Time to decompress is necessary and I’m sure your son will navigate his way through. I didn’t mean children. He seems really sensible to me.
I know of a few men in their twenties via friends or colleagues who don’t work, don’t socialise in real life and just stay in their rooms ‘on their computers’. I just can’t fathom that they’re reading the news up there. Surely you’re bound to go down various rabbit holes spending that much time alienated and alone?
 
Sunflower91 said:
And that female ceo? All she used to do was yank up the ladder so no other women could succeed there unless they also were a part of the boys club.
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Never worked for a female CEO, but one of the reasons I wanted out of the corporate world was that I was sick of seeing the same mediocre, chummy, blokey men promoted every time at the expense of others who would have done a better job, often women.
 
I worked in the charity sector for ages. It provided social care and a lot of the workforce were women.
The CEO (male) gave us all an inspirational talk one day and actually said one of the things he was proudest of was that a lot of the women employed were older and part time - and it was nice for them to have 'a bit of extra pin money'. Thus devaluing and belittling an important job, and implying their hard earned (quite low) wage was for fripperies and lipstick no doubt.
 
xxAprilxx said:
Not sure whether this story is relevant to the thread, but I saw this yesterday which angered me

www.lbc.co.uk

'The smiles vanished from their faces': Fury as girls' football club 'loses' training pitch to boys' club

Locals have been left outraged after a girls’ football club had their pitch contract terminated and re-allocated to a boys’ club.
www.lbc.co.uk www.lbc.co.uk
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It does belong. I really thought these attitudes had gone now. When I played 20+ years ago, I was part of an official university team and we were forever getting shoved off our training pitch before our time was up by a men's team that played in the inter-departmental league, so supposedly below us in the AU pecking order. Nothing was ever done. The official university men's team were often vile to us as well. Weirdly, the rugby lads used to stick up for us.
 
CarmenGhia said:
It does belong. I really thought these attitudes had gone now. When I played 20+ years ago, I was part of an official university team and we were forever getting shoved off our training pitch before our time was up by a men's team that played in the inter-departmental league, so supposedly below us in the AU pecking order. Nothing was ever done. The official university men's team were often vile to us as well. Weirdly, the rugby lads used to stick up for us.
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The only positives I take from this is it’s the fathers of the girls who are saying it is probably gender based and not fair.
 
xxAprilxx said:
Not sure whether this story is relevant to the thread, but I saw this yesterday which angered me

www.lbc.co.uk

'The smiles vanished from their faces': Fury as girls' football club 'loses' training pitch to boys' club

Locals have been left outraged after a girls’ football club had their pitch contract terminated and re-allocated to a boys’ club.
www.lbc.co.uk www.lbc.co.uk
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Tower Hamlets Council has a completely male Cabinet. That’s quite something.

For those fortunate enough to who have never worked within or with a local authority, it’s a council’s Cabinet that sets the overall policy tone, and that has a statutory role of determining policy direction, leading the other elected members of the majority party (or a no-overal-control administration) on that.

I don’t know another council in the country that doesn’t have a female Cabinet member.
 
Tower Hamlets - https://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co...hman-launches-bid-become-tower-hamlets-mayor/
How he was allowed to become Mayor again is baffling.

The cabinet is not only skewed across gender but race too. That is relevant to the discussion because they will have different views about women’s roles in society - second class citizens.

How is this a democracy if the whole cabinet is male and from the same broadly speaking background. Smells whiffy, especially the fact that Rahman is heading it up.
 
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