Laughingforlife
VIP Member
((
Ukraine Russia War #14
- Thread starter Doctor_Wibble
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Doctor_Wibble
VIP Member
Unfortunately entirely unsurprising - Putin just can't handle the prospect of there being any kind of gathering of people that don't like him.
Laughingforlife
VIP Member
Let's see what happens
Doctor_Wibble
VIP Member
in the meantime, someone spotted that whilst the farmers in Poland have genuine grievances, and whilst some are known to be sponsored by some 'russian-leaning' groups, there are a few individuals mingling in with them that turn out not to be farmers at all... not exactly shocking but better to list the evidence so it doesn't get dismissed as rumour [ translation below ]
[ web translation : And now, on the left, the so-called farmer with the Russian ambassador to Poland, on the right the same so-called farmer with anti-Ukrainian and anti-Semitic slogans in Warsaw, what does this banner have to do with Ukrainian wheat and the EU Green Order? ]
Follows the 160 tons of grain dumped on the train tracks by 'persons unknown' in spite of Ukrainian grain being a diminishing problem and Russian grain still being imported and transited by/through EU countries in massive quantities and at artificially cheap-oil-subsidised low prices without much protest:
www.europarl.europa.eu
Question also notes that at least some of the grain is likely from occupied Ukraine, not sure though how this is affected by being stolen and/or proceeds of war, given that legality and ethics aren't always written on the same page.
Presumably the question is answered somewhere, or will be soon, not sure of the timescales on these.
[ web translation : And now, on the left, the so-called farmer with the Russian ambassador to Poland, on the right the same so-called farmer with anti-Ukrainian and anti-Semitic slogans in Warsaw, what does this banner have to do with Ukrainian wheat and the EU Green Order? ]
Follows the 160 tons of grain dumped on the train tracks by 'persons unknown' in spite of Ukrainian grain being a diminishing problem and Russian grain still being imported and transited by/through EU countries in massive quantities and at artificially cheap-oil-subsidised low prices without much protest:
Parliamentary question | Transit of grain from Russia through the EU | E-000492/2024 | European Parliament
Question for written answer E-000492/2024 to the Commission Rule 138 Bronis Ropė (Verts/ALE)
Question also notes that at least some of the grain is likely from occupied Ukraine, not sure though how this is affected by being stolen and/or proceeds of war, given that legality and ethics aren't always written on the same page.
Presumably the question is answered somewhere, or will be soon, not sure of the timescales on these.
Laughingforlife
VIP Member
Doctor_Wibble
VIP Member
Saw the full thing - still short and to the point too.
One odd reaction to it was to suggest she was saying to forget the war but they were I think reading too much into her words - the war has to continue at the same time as tackling Putin as the crime-lord that he is - to ensure the return of the land stolen and the rebuilding of what has been destroyed.
And just to calm everyone's nerves, an interview about how Russia might go about attacking NATO countries.
Russia’s gamble: how and why it could attack NATO countries. Ex-NATO official explains
Edward Hunter Christie gave his perspective on the Russian threat to NATO, Ukraine and European security.
euromaidanpress.com
Laughingforlife
VIP Member
I agree. I never thought she was saying forget the war. In order to free Ukraine you have to fight Putin. To have a free democratic, safe eastern Europe as a whole, you have to fight Putin.Saw the full thing - still short and to the point too.
One odd reaction to it was to suggest she was saying to forget the war but they were I think reading too much into her words - the war has to continue at the same time as tackling Putin as the crime-lord that he is - to ensure the return of the land stolen and the rebuilding of what has been destroyed.
And just to calm everyone's nerves, an interview about how Russia might go about attacking NATO countries.
Part and parcel of the strategy is to get NATO arguing amongst themselves, damaging the cooperation that makes it work - and without that the whole picture gets that much darker.Russia’s gamble: how and why it could attack NATO countries. Ex-NATO official explains
Edward Hunter Christie gave his perspective on the Russian threat to NATO, Ukraine and European security.
That's essentially her message. Putin is obviously the cause of all this, so he must be held responsible.
Yulia literally says that he must be held accountable for what he has done to a "peaceful neighbouring country"
Doctor_Wibble
VIP Member
Meanwhile, back in the free democratic people's republic of Putinland, the glorious leader's speech didn't last seven hours as I expected, this one apparently is the one that only last about an hour or so... untranslated vid on Kremlin website says 2h07m37s transcript still in progress.
A whole TASS section on it, the headlines they list under that are a handy way to avoid having to watch/read the whole thing:
tass.com
Some highlights (all pieces linked there)
Putin's idea of alliance is where he 'suggests' direction and all members agree.
Because Putin can do no wrong and everyone agrees with him
Remembering that 'sovereign Russia' is the totality of everything claimed by Putin as 'forever Russia' including parts it hasn't invaded or occupied yet.
And of course talk of nuclear missiles, readiness to deploy them... and a denial -we have seen those before
that Russia has any intention of invading Europe even though the west provoked the conflict in Ukraine (well obviously)
tass.com
Some may recall his remarks in that chat show appearance, the one where he basically said that WW2 started because Poland forced Germany to invade...
TLDR no surprises, just more of the same with confirmations of emphasis and direction.
A whole TASS section on it, the headlines they list under that are a handy way to avoid having to watch/read the whole thing:
TASS: Russian President Vladimir Putin's address to the Federal Assembly
Russian President Vladimir Putin's address to the Federal Assembly
tass.com
Some highlights (all pieces linked there)
Putin's idea of alliance is where he 'suggests' direction and all members agree.
Because Putin can do no wrong and everyone agrees with him
Remembering that 'sovereign Russia' is the totality of everything claimed by Putin as 'forever Russia' including parts it hasn't invaded or occupied yet.
And of course talk of nuclear missiles, readiness to deploy them... and a denial -we have seen those before
that Russia has any intention of invading Europe even though the west provoked the conflict in Ukraine (well obviously)
Potential interventionists in Russia to face more tragic consequences than in past — Putin
The Russian leader stressed that the claims that Russia was preparing to attack Europe were nothing but nonsense
tass.com
TLDR no surprises, just more of the same with confirmations of emphasis and direction.
Laughingforlife
VIP Member
Laughingforlife
VIP Member
Very brave. All been peaceful so far. No one has been scragged by police...
kev1974
VIP Member
Article about army recruitment in Ukraine (archived link)
archive.ph
Desperate for money and men, Ukraine is using violent press gangs to …
archived 29 Feb 2024 17:42:05 UTC
Doctor_Wibble
VIP Member
Article about army recruitment in Ukraine (archived link)
Desperate for money and men, Ukraine is using violent press gangs to …
archived 29 Feb 2024 17:42:05 UTC
The prospect of being shot at is never an appealing one!
Though the piece ends with this:
Which sounds like decent advice, even if the warning does feel a bit dramatic.
Ellelalala
Chatty Member
Doctor_Wibble
VIP Member
Latest reminder of Russia's intent, courtesy of Dmitri Medvedev
For clarity, full pic showing the map behind him
For clarity, full pic showing the map behind him
RaveChampion
Chatty Member
Conscription via stealth I reckon. I feared as much in an earlier post tbh.
https://www.12ft.io/https://www.dai...ed-style-contest-Special-Forces-veterans.html
Doctor_Wibble
VIP Member
Conscription via stealth I reckon. I feared as much in an earlier post tbh.
It's a brilliantly cunning ploy, looks like they even paid for their own training.
This is an excellent proof of concept for military budgeting and I look forward to us all getting tax cuts on the back of it.
Actually if they are making money from pictures taken at the front line whilst they are there at the taxpayer's expense then I think we should getting a percentage.
Why did the networks not want this? It's a guaranteed win-win!
RaveChampion
Chatty Member
I'm glad that you can see the pattern.
There's Colonel Kurtz levels of high strangeness going on here. Text book MKULTRA techniques.
How can an assassin be an assassin if they don't know they are an assassin etc
Also has a whiff of Illuminations involvement IMO. Maybe big farmers too.
I don't want to doxx myself too much but I've some experience in these grey areas:-
1/ I've completed Call of Duty: Black ops 1,2, and 3 on medium setting.
2/ I also saw "the Manchurian candidate"on telly a while back though I was a bit spannered I can remember they key takeaways.
There's Colonel Kurtz levels of high strangeness going on here. Text book MKULTRA techniques.
How can an assassin be an assassin if they don't know they are an assassin etc
Also has a whiff of Illuminations involvement IMO. Maybe big farmers too.
I don't want to doxx myself too much but I've some experience in these grey areas:-
1/ I've completed Call of Duty: Black ops 1,2, and 3 on medium setting.
2/ I also saw "the Manchurian candidate"on telly a while back though I was a bit spannered I can remember they key takeaways.
RaveChampion
Chatty Member
Realistically Ukraine is in a parlous position. I originally posted "screwed" but I'm trying to sound a bit positive.
They can't manage with the trickles of ordnance they're being sent. Increasingly you're seeing pics of Ukrainian fighters with missing limbs/some who shouldn't even be fighting. Just like the Tattered Volksturm at the close of WW2. It's concerning. I'd hoped (as many probably did) that this would turn into the "Winter war" of 1939. It isn't and it hasn't sadly.
Russia is using their tried and tested "Meatgrinder" technique (to borrow Stalins phrase) and will happily pay gallons of blood for every metre taken. It's kind of medieval but it works eventually so why fix something that isn't broken? Who'll run out of bodies first? Won't be the USSR. Of this you can be certain.
Just look what a state the Russian military was in 1939. Still they endured and turned it round by 1943/44.
Since Vietnam (the first televised war) the west (sans Ukraine) have always been scared of rising body counts and the public opprobium this engenders. Russia has no such fears/concerns. It never has even since Tsarist days.
What to do? It looks increasingly bleak.
There will have to be peace negotiations/Ukranian ground given.
Thats easy to say when it's not your own country but realistically what are the other options? I'd be interested to hear them.
They can't manage with the trickles of ordnance they're being sent. Increasingly you're seeing pics of Ukrainian fighters with missing limbs/some who shouldn't even be fighting. Just like the Tattered Volksturm at the close of WW2. It's concerning. I'd hoped (as many probably did) that this would turn into the "Winter war" of 1939. It isn't and it hasn't sadly.
Russia is using their tried and tested "Meatgrinder" technique (to borrow Stalins phrase) and will happily pay gallons of blood for every metre taken. It's kind of medieval but it works eventually so why fix something that isn't broken? Who'll run out of bodies first? Won't be the USSR. Of this you can be certain.
Just look what a state the Russian military was in 1939. Still they endured and turned it round by 1943/44.
Since Vietnam (the first televised war) the west (sans Ukraine) have always been scared of rising body counts and the public opprobium this engenders. Russia has no such fears/concerns. It never has even since Tsarist days.
What to do? It looks increasingly bleak.
There will have to be peace negotiations/Ukranian ground given.
Thats easy to say when it's not your own country but realistically what are the other options? I'd be interested to hear them.
Doctor_Wibble
VIP Member
[ sorry, went on the soap-box a bit ...again... trying to be clear, with luck succeeded and without stupid typos but if not then the pics and TLDR I think convey the sentiment ]
The situation only looks bleak because the west has been too afraid of provoking Russia - but no provocation was needed because Putin was always going to go ahead with this, at best the only thing changed might have been the timing.
Actually it's also bleak because of some high profile Russian sponsored individuals bleeping things up for everyone but that's best left for a separate post...
The collective west made the mistake of not doing enough in 2014 (and earlier) as per an interview with John McCain and clear statement of the situation back then by President Poroshenko (clips ref bbchardtalk on youtube), the latter describing a situation identical to what we face right now.
A single carefully placed item would deal with the problem of Putin but unfortunately there is such an almost cult-like fatalistic acceptance of the idea that he is the only one that can lead Russia and if he was unexpectedly retired, that would elevate him to 'Martyred Saint' his chorus being everyone else who was in the Kremlin at the time.
If his invasion is rewarded with a gift of territory, Putin will just do it again because that's what he does. And 'gift' because he does not count dead soldiers as a cost.
That's why there's more efforts on longer range smarter hardware for strategic hits, not just on inflicting high casualty rates.
Half the Black Sea is already considered something of a no-go area for Russia now, almost the entirety of Crimea is within range, and the Kerch bridge is getting closed a lot.
As regards comparisons between countries, Putin's Russia goes something like this and this is what would be extended to occupied Ukraine on a permanent basis once Russia puts up some facades on the rubble and pretends the land has been liberated from an evil regime.
And the latest promises from Russia that they won't invade anyone else, these are of course the same as what they said in mid to late February 2022 but of course their contention is also that it's not invading because actually it's all Russia and anyway they all voted (or will vote when the soldiers go round with the ballot boxes) to 'rejoin motherland russia'.
If we abandon Ukraine (even just some of it) then that's an entire country that's added to the 'hates us' list but with more venom than most, everybody who's come here (funding already/nearly expired?) gets to claim asylum and full non temporary refugee status, we get the extra long long term costs of maintaining a high risk active border and defence line, Russia then undercuts and kills the worldwide grain market at the cost of only a few lean years and starvation of some of its outer regions that Moscow doesn't care about.
TLDR : Ukraine is not Russia. Putin's murdering war-criminal army fucks off home, voluntarily or otherwise. Any negotiated settlement which doesn't have that as the prerequisite will be a false economy even if we pretend there isn't a known multiple treaty breaker as a signatory.
The situation only looks bleak because the west has been too afraid of provoking Russia - but no provocation was needed because Putin was always going to go ahead with this, at best the only thing changed might have been the timing.
Actually it's also bleak because of some high profile Russian sponsored individuals bleeping things up for everyone but that's best left for a separate post...
The collective west made the mistake of not doing enough in 2014 (and earlier) as per an interview with John McCain and clear statement of the situation back then by President Poroshenko (clips ref bbchardtalk on youtube), the latter describing a situation identical to what we face right now.
A single carefully placed item would deal with the problem of Putin but unfortunately there is such an almost cult-like fatalistic acceptance of the idea that he is the only one that can lead Russia and if he was unexpectedly retired, that would elevate him to 'Martyred Saint' his chorus being everyone else who was in the Kremlin at the time.
If his invasion is rewarded with a gift of territory, Putin will just do it again because that's what he does. And 'gift' because he does not count dead soldiers as a cost.
That's why there's more efforts on longer range smarter hardware for strategic hits, not just on inflicting high casualty rates.
Half the Black Sea is already considered something of a no-go area for Russia now, almost the entirety of Crimea is within range, and the Kerch bridge is getting closed a lot.
As regards comparisons between countries, Putin's Russia goes something like this and this is what would be extended to occupied Ukraine on a permanent basis once Russia puts up some facades on the rubble and pretends the land has been liberated from an evil regime.
And the latest promises from Russia that they won't invade anyone else, these are of course the same as what they said in mid to late February 2022 but of course their contention is also that it's not invading because actually it's all Russia and anyway they all voted (or will vote when the soldiers go round with the ballot boxes) to 'rejoin motherland russia'.
If we abandon Ukraine (even just some of it) then that's an entire country that's added to the 'hates us' list but with more venom than most, everybody who's come here (funding already/nearly expired?) gets to claim asylum and full non temporary refugee status, we get the extra long long term costs of maintaining a high risk active border and defence line, Russia then undercuts and kills the worldwide grain market at the cost of only a few lean years and starvation of some of its outer regions that Moscow doesn't care about.
TLDR : Ukraine is not Russia. Putin's murdering war-criminal army fucks off home, voluntarily or otherwise. Any negotiated settlement which doesn't have that as the prerequisite will be a false economy even if we pretend there isn't a known multiple treaty breaker as a signatory.