The Royal Family

[FreeSquirrels]

Apparently he has three "regular lady visitors" at Sandringham.

I remember reading something where an "inside source" said that there was a gay royal but it wasn't Edward. Certainly there's been rumours that Andrew is bi, and Fergie know all about where the various bodies are buried which is why she is still around. She and Andrew are apparently friends with benefits.

There is a gay royal, Lord Ivar Mountbatten.

 

[Norbs]

I don’t like MM because I think she married Harry for all the wrong reasons and it was to further herself along the road, he looks so unhappy since he had been with her and she has done what abusers do; moved him away from his family, I understand that part of her reasons were to do with the British media and I know out of all the media worldwide then the British media are the worst out of them all, but I just don’t think she is genuine and I can’t see their marriage going the distance. I can see why William was suspicious of her and why she was marrying Harry, fame and money comes to mind.

Have you ever read the German press? Or the Italian? Or American tabloids? Bad as some elements of the British press are, the British media is far from ‘the worst of them all’.

 

[Vanillaco]

Does HM have any lovers? There is seems to be a question mark over Andrews paternity!! It’s been banded about that he is porches son!! Lol !! Maybe that is the reason why he is her favourite child?

Apparently he has three "regular lady visitors" at Sandringham.

3 lady visitors??Blimey! Who would want a 99 year old pumping away? Yuk!
Re HM. I always thought she adored Phil even though he was a bit ( much) less loyal. But I suppose if the marriage was going through difficulties she could have sought comfort elsewhere.

 

[vikka]

On Kate and Will, They certainly didn’t have a running start to working royal life. But if I recall correctly the Queen was okay with that because she appreciated her early years with Phillip in Malta? So was happy for the eventual future King and his spouse to also experience a quieter life before dedicating themselves to their jobs? I do think they’ve improved over the years. By sharing the occasional picture they’re also able to control the narrative around their children and give them some semblance of normality.

There was a lot of criticism, because it was felt that was just the excuse of the day. Even when Liz was in Malta, she still did more than the Cambridges at the time. Then the ongoing hilarity of constant statements from KP about Kate being "keen to hit the ground running", an expression which became a running (ha!) gag amongst royal watchers, because whenever the self-imposed deadline of her "keenly hitting the ground running" came closer, oops another pregnancy happened (or some other happenstance simply making it oh-so impossible to do more, like Will's bought-for fantasy job, he was supposed to step up (with Liz & Charles's blessing), but oopsie he took a "gap year" as married adult and the ambulance job (don't remember which of those came first), a job literally created for him with the expense of a new helicopter just for Willie, so he could be co-pilot, unheard of in emergency helicopters, there's a pilot normally and that's that).

Edit: There was even a tailored-to-Will 4 week agriculture course at Cambridge uni he started, which was supposed to prep him for running the estate once he becomes duke of Cornwall, rumour is, he never finished it.

He laughingly told people several times on the record he doesn't read his briefs (prior to meetings, incl on tours). Who does that??

There's quite a bit of debate how ok Liz was really with that, the initial idea was I think for an eased first and perhaps second year and then be fully integrated, they are still shirking, 10 years later.

So true. There was a time when Wiliam and Kate were single handily bringing down the monarchy. Being utterly lazy, only interested in nice engagements (sport or red carpets), rejecting their roles and obligations, the renovation drama about Amner Hall, the BIG grandparent war, practically withholding the children from Charles and the Queen, Wiliams hostile relationship with the media. They had to put up with a lot of criticising for not parading their children to the public. All the articles how the peerage dislikes and ridiculed Kate, Kate’s spending (especially on items that look exactly the same), Kate breaking protocol a thousand times, Kate the Flasher, Kate the gold digger, Wiliam the hypocrite in his animal rescue but sport hunting, Wiliam and part time flying, Kate using pregnancies to avoid work, Kate faking HG, Kate’s eating disorders, Kate the anti-feminist, Kate’s horrible posture, Kate’s bad speeches, when Meghan turned up it was all about jealous Kate- not busy enough, not stylish enough, not warm
enough, still hasn’t learned the ropes, would be in Meghan’s shadow..... and that’s just from the top of my head.
They were short of being called the Anti-Christ.
Sadly, people love to gossip and hate on people. Now, the wind has turned and everything they were ever criticised for is interpreted differently, forgiven or forgotten. That is why, I have a hard time following the Meghan has it so much worse narrative. Most articles read as taken from Kate coverage 5 years ago and they just swapped names. What did horrify me were the comment sections though. That’s were racism has raised its ugly head and I wish they would have exposed those people. Bring a private citizen should not protect you if you are comfortable to voice such opinions.
I disagree in terms of Harry and Meghan taking the fall for the Cambridge’s. Harry was in the media’s and the public’s good graces while his brother and his family couldn’t do anything right. It’s an ongoing cycle that has little to do with what is actually happening.
Interesting what you say about Denmark. I heard the Danish press and public were very critical especially about her spending, and language deficits. And wasn’t there a big scandal about some holiday home or yacht (or was this Netherlands or Spain?). So maybe our tabloids exaggerated the press action in Denmark.
I absolutely agree about your soap comparison. It’s all highly entertaining.






Like to add Luxembourg, Andorra and the Vatikan (counts as absolute monarchy).
Also, while many might not have a ruling monarch as head of state (poster figure or actually powerful) many still have a big peerage that is still very exclusive and impenetrable. They might not be as rich anymore but they are utter snobs and their titles still come with a lot of privilege. Even in Germany, where there is no official peerage anymore (the title is now part of the name) they are still their own group, avoiding too much exposure (like the patsy Frederick von Anhalt. Adopting rich people to get paid for the name is sadly no one off). The big families still maintain their old structures with a family head and were marriages have to be allowed to stay in the book. They own land and business, and are highly educated. Sadly, governments will always find something to drown money instead of putting it where it should be (education, health, art, environment). A royal head of state is just one more hole. I think you could still distribute tax money more fair even if you still have to pay for them. I mean, our parliament had been riding their salaries to a point where it is ridiculous. And don’t let me think of their pensions. Two legislative periods and you are set up for live. And if you backed the right lobby, there is great and high salaried job as the CEO or on the board of directors waiting for you on top. A royal family fits right in. At least you have entertainment, some glitz at state visits and gorgeous castles and grounds.

I'm not too sure on holiday/yacht scandals, I follow the Windsors the closest and the others sporadically and some yet still closer than others, so can't say for sure, but I do know there were several yacht/holiday homes scandals across the board, Mette and Haakon's luxury holidays on yachts, questions on the finances and several holiday homes of Max & Will-Alex, questions on the Luxembourg's Paris appartement (and as it transpired Maria Teresa is a massive bytch who's nasty to her staff and courtiers), questions on the Monegasque money, I remember a few years ago the Grimaldis made some investments in I think the Middle East, well, many think that's a money laundering scheme, so take your pick!

Generally the Danish press is very very forgiving and lax and it always amazes royal watchers when they do criticize, but there is a lack of balanced reporting (ie calling them out when there's reason to), so it seems the general Danish public is even more apathetic towrds their royals than others. Hilariously, a popular argument there is, like from UK royalists, that the Danish RF bring in the tourism and it is such a BS argument whoever utters it, I know of no one who went for anyone's RF, ever, and I think most people don't even realize the Danes even have a RF!!

That's true on former monarchies still having their club, but that's still another topic and quite different to the UK, even with ongoing monarchies, nothing compares to the UK in terms of "old money/exclusive club not letting anyone in".

Eg in Germany, yes the families still stick together, head big corporations or are involved in politics and they still back each other up. It is also more hidden in ways, because they don't use their titles for the most part. In Germany there are also some saddos who are attention-seeking media whores, they're laughed at by the olden peerage and the common man alike.

The Netherlands and Sweden have done away with nobility. It doesn't exist anymore. The families still exist and they also have each others' backs and are close to their reigning house and tend to use their olden titles, but effectively it doesn't exist and there's a real sense and mentality of "everyone's equal" and it's really felt, in spite of having a monarchy, there's no sense of "social betters", but equality and equal opportunites for everyone (yes, these countries still have their problems, of course, but talking generally right now).

The UK, however, is like no other. Titles are worth everything, just attending the right school (eg Eton) and you can be sure you'll have a great career (regardless of grades or much of anything else), the UK circles are the really impenetrable, where not even money will get you into some of the circles and clubs, only "pedigree" and "breeding". Also a restaurant exists in London, that'll seat members and their offspring of the peerage on one side of the establishment and non-titled people on the other. It's utterly ridiculous.
I speak a few languages and in no other like in English have I come across either the saying or remotely an inkling of a sense that it is meant, like in England, like "good breeding", "pedigree" (for humans ffs!), "know your station" or "don't get above your station" or "know your social betters".
I studied culture and history and have lived in a few European countries and spend regular time in various places and honestly there's nothing like it, except in snobby England.

I agree about the problems you mention republics have, but even with those problems I'd take a republic any day over a monarchy, or at least a scaled-down model like the Dutch, I can live with that.

Btw, sorry for the full-on essay, I thought a bit about this and more and more popped into my head and I just about scratched the surface, but whoever made it reading this, thank you! I hope I didn't bore you to death!

Have you ever read the German press? Or the Italian? Or American tabloids? Bad as some elements of the British press are, and the British media is far from ‘the worst of them all’.

The British media may have a reputation, but the media is nasty across the board. You mention Italian press, some of the covers I've seen are unbelievable. Papparazzi snaps of women on the beach topless.. I'm not clutching my pearls over breasts, but the fact that these women are on holiday and I assume expect some privacy?!

Whichever language from whatever country I read or watch an interview with a celebrity, there's always complaints how "no one else's media is as horrible as ours!" Makes me laugh sometimes...

 

[Jaybtee]

The first part of your post - the Windsors are a great study in terms of PR.

Harry's wife, no matter who she were to be, would've been crucified by the press, just like Kate was. However, BP does let it happen and it is part of their age-old tactic of having the spare and their spouse be the fall couple for the heir & spouse, so they look better in the public's eye.

Nothing makes me laugh more than the adulation Kate gets and comments by people how Kate "would never do this", "behaved always impeccably" or "never put a foot wrong" "is elegant and classy 100% of the time". I wonder, did these people start following once Harry married or did they start the adulation (knowing full well that the above statements are not true) just to spite Meghan? Because if we were to compare Meg vs Kate 1st year of marriage and 2nd (to draw a more direct comparison, so ticking the stations from the start of entering the firm in direct contrast), Meg either outperformed Kate or did no worse than her.

The media followed suit and glorified Kate along with these either spiteful or unknowing people, but the thing is, as Diana said, they build you up to knock you down. The Cambridges felt this again, after years of positive on positive press (ie since Meg came along), when the Sussexes were gone from the media for a good while, they started to criticize the Cambridges again. And the Cambridges do deserve quite a bit of criticism.

Charles has been on quite a campaign since Diana died and the introduction of Camilla was nothing short of genius PR. There's a whole documentary on that out there. The biggest problem Charles really faces is his age. People seem to love nothing more than youth, so no matter Charles's good deeds (and there are many of them), he remains always overshadowed by the younger generation, so his image is oddly skewed, regardless of postive PR.

The workhorse bit, you're right. I think this ties in with the "Harry's frustration regarding projects" bit in Omid's biography of them. I do think they had many ideas, wanted to work on many things and were sidelined, because they cannot do more or overshadow the heir and the heir's heir (ie Charles & Will).

A further problem is that the Cambridges are absolutely lazy. Both of them, but Kate even more so. Harry's wife being a busy bee (again, no matter who she were to be) would've been a massive problem. Esp if that wife were to have also kids and still outperfom Kate in numbers and with a better delivery (ie better written and performed speeches, something Kate's only become better at in the past 2-3 years, is the timeline in which Kate became better a mere coincidence or a shock/wake up reaction to the de facto direct competition (ie Harry's wife)?).

In terms of PR it is really fascinating what the Windsors do and also how the press spins it all by their own. There's a documentary on the Windsors's PR tactics over the years and it's beyond amazing!
Albert was the first to have a major hand in the family's PR in a similar way as Phil did back in the 1950s/60s, he's the one who started with the whole "wholesome family just having a nice time bonding" thing and the one who effectively shaped Xmas as we know it today and the Windsors's own Xmas traditions, as well.

They need to update the monarchy fast, they are the most old-fashioned of all European monarchies and I realized that only once I started to learn a bit about them all. The UK has in theory more territory to cover than other monarchies (ie the Commonwealth), but in reality it's not like the Windsors are incessantly on tour and need a whole family to act as representatives.

They should have a monarch & heir only system like the others (e.g. Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Sweden, Norway & Denmark, basically like all EU monarchies at this point), wherein all spares are raised to join the workforce and all extended family (ie spares, cousins, aunts, uncles, the works) are only roped in based on necessity, eg to fill seats at state banquets, but even then seats could be filled in various ways.

Abolish the curtsey bs, too. Others have done it as well.

They must also quit the "heir vs spare" pitting type of PR, as it's doing them no favours at all. The spares are acting out (rightly so, who'd want to be the professional fall guy for their older "more important" sibling?? All their life!) and when the negative press of the spare is rotated through and nothing left to write about, the heir will be experiencing a renewed fall from grace anyway.
Most recently as we saw with the Cambs a few months ago. The Cambridges will have a lambasting through the press soon enough again, just wait for it.

The media is a fickle beast and can be quite problematic, aside from what I just wrote about. Eg in Denmark they never criticize their royal family, even though there is a lot that the people should know about and the heir and his wife need to be called out for (eg spending so much, they beg the government for more money, which goes up in air on luxury shopping sprees for Italian and French couture brands, which then end up sold by Mary in a 2nd hand shop! that's just one example. Another is the fact that Mary's Danish is still piss poor, nigh in non-existent, meanwhile Maxima was basically fluent in Dutch already when she gave the engagemet interview back in the day, as was Marie in Danish for her engagement interview...).

Monarchies are great (apparently) never ending soaps, really. Tune in to The Windsors, series 856, all brand spankin' new with the same age-old scandals befalling a whole new generation!

Excellent long read

 

[Josie113]

Yeah but even if all that was true, Harry is an adult that can make his own mistakes. The extreme hatred of her is weird. The track record of the Royals in the marriage stakes is appalling at the best of times. If they do get divorced they will be the latest in a long line of Royal divorcees. Harry is so far off the throne as to be irrelevant. The significance given to them is based entirely on the hysteria whipped up over the internet and by the papers. If they want to be left alone, leave them alone and shut up about them. They will go away.What I find more distasteful is the top billing given to Harry and Meghan being annoying narcissists and a lower billing given to Andrew being a long time friend to sexual predators ( he invited Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein to his childs 18th birthday at Windsor Castle ffs. Why? Was it because of all the 17 and 18 year old girls running around? ) They are not equal 'crimes' yet they are mentioned in the same breath all the time! They are being used as a smokescreen to cover up far worse things and and the baying internet mob lap it up, ignoring more serious issues, like our Head of State allowing her beloved son get away with his behaviour for so long and our future head of state refusing access to their children if they run stories on Andrew. Harry and Meghan are nobodies yet our rulers and future rulers are being protected by their human shield.

This is my sentiment wholly! I said in the Megan and Harry thread that this situation is a PR dream for the RF. There is not one story or even the whole situation does not Warrent the backlash and press it is receiving (along with the place insiders sharing small snippets to ensure it is being talked about as well as Piers Morgan) These non stories are being used one hundred per cent as a smoke screen for the biggest crisis the RF has ever seen!

Needless to say I got lynched told something about sugar

 

[Josie113]

Yes you also got told how to spell story correctly. Oh and it's warrant also - You're welcome.

Sorry doodlebug005 won’t happen again.

 

[Norbs]

This is my sentiment wholly! I said in the Megan and Harry thread that this situation is a PR dream for the RF. There is not one story or even the whole situation does not Warrent the backlash and press it is receiving (along with the place insiders sharing small snippets to ensure it is being talked about as well as Piers Morgan) These non stories are being used one hundred per cent as a smoke screen for the biggest crisis the RF has ever seen!

Needless to say I got lynched told something about sugar

You really didn’t. Your opinion got challenged because this is a discussion forum.

 

[Josie113]

You really didn’t. Your opinion got challenged because this is a discussion forum.

You really didn’t. Your opinion got challenged because this is a discussion forum.

I had no problem replying to the challenges under my post. But what I felt was when I challenged the status quo, asking for anything real to be brought to the table a story of real substance to justify the air time, tabloid inch’s In regards to the Megan & Harry So called scandal compared to the Andrew scandal I was called out on bad spelling and grammar!

But look if you don’t like them, that’s fair enough I have no opinions on them as people or the crap they pull, however I do want to see Andrew at least questioned in relation to the Epstein enquiry! I feel at the minute all attention in the UK seems to be on the wrong royal due to this perfectly timed book etc

 

[Pippa M]

One of the3 ladies that visit Pr Philip is the daughter or granddaughter of Earl Mountbatten,so a family member ( Penny)
She does ( or did ) carriage driving as well so that was something in common.I dont know who the others are but am sure they have impeccable family ties and are pure as the driven snow.... probably play chess and read aloud ...

 

[Norbs]

Sorry, you seem to have mucked up the quote hierarchy somehow, @Josie113 so I can’t quote your post, but in answer to your question it is a pattern of behaviour with the Sussexes that people object to - the way they have treated both of their families, the disrespect they have shown to the Crown and - by extension - the people of this country, the way they whinge and moan about how tough they have it whilst living a millionaire lifestyle and in the face of the abject poverty of the people in Africa when they were on tour, the way they preach about the environment whilst hopping on private jets, Meghan’s behaviour in barging in front of Harry and trying to elbow her way into the top tier of the Royal Family when she and ‘Aitch’ are in fact a tier below, etc, etc. So when you ask for ‘stories’ the simple fact is there are too many to enumerate.

As for Prince Andrew, people simply felt that the two things co-exist independently, not that one was being used to deflect from the other.

 

[Norbs]

There is a gay royal, Lord Ivar Mountbatten.

Who is now Cressida Bonas’s uncle-by-marriage.

 

[Blade Runner]

This is my sentiment wholly! I said in the Megan and Harry thread that this situation is a PR dream for the RF. There is not one story or even the whole situation does not Warrent the backlash and press it is receiving (along with the place insiders sharing small snippets to ensure it is being talked about as well as Piers Morgan) These non stories are being used one hundred per cent as a smoke screen for the biggest crisis the RF has ever seen!

Needless to say I got lynched told something about sugar

The media are more interested in Meghan and Harry, than in the real scandal which is Andrew and his ever protective mother. No thought whatsoever about the victims. The same applies to the media. I’m sure the RF are very relieved that Meghan and Harry have turned out to be such eejits.

 

[Pippa M]

The media are more interested in Meghan and Harry, than in the real scandal which is Andrew and his ever protective mother. No thought whatsoever about the victims. The same applies to the media. I’m sure the RF are very relieved that Meghan and Harry have turned out to be such eejits.

I am pretty sure Andrew's turn will come. The HarryMegain stories will cool off after they have taken everyone to court for not buying their nice book and Andrew's problems will pop up again, he must have terribly high blood pressure and sleepless nights worrying about how much longer mummy can hold his hand.

 

[Blade Runner]

I am pretty sure Andrew's turn will come. The HarryMegain stories will cool off after they have taken everyone to court for not buying their nice book and Andrew's problems will pop up again, he must have terribly high blood pressure and sleepless nights worrying about how much longer mummy can hold his hand.

I wonder who will hold his hand when his mammy passes away?

 

[Won’t you have a cup]

Why did they write a book?

Either way, the motives won’t be good. It will be for one of these reasons:

1. For money.

2. To ‘set the record straight’, which never ends well. Every idiot selling a story to a tabloid uses the same excuse - setting the record straight - as if failing to do so would be an assault on natural justice that would rock the country to its foundations. I’m talking about George Best’s ex-wives level of micro-celebrity here. Nobody with any sense writes a book in their own defence.

3. Because they think that they are international statespeople and can produce their own version of ‘Becoming’ by Michelle Obama. Hubris.

I had no strong feelings about them either way, apart from a general sense of ‘why are we paying for the royal family’, until they started endorsing commercial ventures - which is exactly what Travalyst is - using private jets whilst telling us not to fly anywhere and staging their silly ‘we’re flouncing but WE WANT TO KEEP ALL THE MONEY AND YOU’RE STILL PAYING FOR US, OK?’ strop.

Now I just see them as irritants.

 

[Vanillaco]

One of the3 ladies that visit Pr Philip is the daughter or granddaughter of Earl Mountbatten,so a family member ( Penny)
She does ( or did ) carriage driving as well so that was something in common.I dont know who the others are but am sure they have impeccable family ties and are pure as the driven snow.... probably play chess and read aloud ...

i thought she was the one who lives there with him?

Because they think that they are international statespeople and can produce their own version of ‘Becoming’ by Michelle Obama. Hubris
[/QUO They
They thought they were important without the pomp and ceremony of the RF but the RF are the pomp and ceremony. They have nothing to back them up whatsoever as Harry has found out to his cost. I suppose having your every whim catered to must give you a skewed sense of your own importance.
The Obamas are The Obamas because they are respected for what they achieved and have something to say about how they achieved it and what they learned. God even the Kardashians have done something even if it's making a lot of money out of very little. The Royals have nothing if you take away the carriages and the Tiaras and the soap opera. They are just a dysfunctional family of not very bright people with little in the way of achievements, personally or professionally that would make them stand out.

 

[Milliemoo99]

The media are more interested in Meghan and Harry, than in the real scandal which is Andrew and his ever protective mother. No thought whatsoever about the victims. The same applies to the media. I’m sure the RF are very relieved that Meghan and Harry have turned out to be such eejits.

Meghan and Harry and Andrew are 2 extremely different stories though.

Meghan & Harry are a kind of reality show gone wrong kind of media coverage! Its a human interest.....fascination with other people.....story. Similar to Big Brother gossip etc. How on earth did they expect to get away with behaving like this?

Andrew and his life story is totally different, in my opinion... he has been on the edge of scandal his entire adult, life, with loads of stories of financial irregularity, which is where his initial friendship with dubious characters like Epstein came from. let alone the whole ......'horror,'...of his attitude towards young women. ( I dont know how to express my distaste for his attitude and behaviour.)

The massive difference between them, is that H& M chose to leave the security of the RF press corp, and thought they could do better out in the cold. Andrew has stayed securely within the structure of the RF press corp, except for his disastrous Newnight outing. Whilst he stays there, as the second son of the Queen, he is safe, and almost untouchable. (And sad as it is, I do think Andrew was a relatively insignificant part of Epstein and his empire, so Im not sure why so much is being made of his involvement? What else can he say, and if the newsnight interview is taken into account, how much of a reliable interviewee is he? Pizza hut ....who actually believed he was there that night? ) Andrew has lost his job as a member of the RF, he cant represent them any more, he cant go to the USA to play golf, and he wasnt even allowed to be pictured in photos from his daughters wedding. so he is being punished....just not in a way that means that much to many of us.

 

[Pippa M]

Meghan and Harry and Andrew are 2 extremely different stories though.

Meghan & Harry are a kind of reality show gone wrong kind of media coverage! Its a human interest.....fascination with other people.....story. Similar to Big Brother gossip etc. How on earth did they expect to get away with behaving like this?

Andrew and his life story is totally different, in my opinion... he has been on the edge of scandal his entire adult, life, with loads of stories of financial irregularity, which is where his initial friendship with dubious characters like Epstein came from. let alone the whole ......'horror,'...of his attitude towards young women. ( I dont know how to express my distaste for his attitude and behaviour.)

The massive difference between them, is that H& M chose to leave the security of the RF press corp, and thought they could do better out in the cold. Andrew has stayed securely within the structure of the RF press corp, except for his disastrous Newnight outing. Whilst he stays there, as the second son of the Queen, he is safe, and almost untouchable. (And sad as it is, I do think Andrew was a relatively insignificant part of Epstein and his empire, so Im not sure why so much is being made of his involvement? What else can he say, and if the newsnight interview is taken into account, how much of a reliable interviewee is he? Pizza hut ....who actually believed he was there that night? ) Andrew has lost his job as a member of the RF, he cant represent them any more, he cant go to the USA to play golf, and he wasnt even allowed to be pictured in photos from his daughters wedding. so he is being punished....just not in a way that means that much to many of us.

That is a more personal " punishment" of his own making. The fact that a woman states that he had sex with her when she was young and the facts we know of his relationship with sex trafficking people are the things that need sorting out and then if guilty I am quite sure a different sort of punishment would have to be decided...difficult as he is sure to be well guarded...but whatever comes out there will be people within his own family who do know the truth and he has to live with them knowing...how embarrassing and shaming to lose credibilty with own family that way.

 

[CarrieW24]

I'm sorry at how people are responding to you Josie. It's normally more respectful around here (in my experience at least)

@Josie113