VanterreDuPont
Member
I definitely think it's highly naive and unlikely to believe that the Middleton family didn't encourage the relationship between Kate and William. Are we really, genuinely of the belief that there was no effort on their part to pull off what would be a history making social coup?
I think it doesn't suit people's Cambridge vs. Sussex nonsense, but the truth is every woman who married into the royal family has had to have a degree of manipulative finesse. These women are all extremely dynamic, underestimated, charismatic and intelligent in their own right. A lot of it was by design. Let's be real. Yes the Middletons conspired to seal their family in the annals of history, yes Camilla conspired to marry in and try to rebuild her image after years of mockery and humiliation, yes Meghan knew who Prince Harry was before she met him.
Yes women deny and downplay these qualities across the board because they will be absolutely eviscerated for admitting to them.
The difference is, I genuinely believe that Meghan realised her life was far better before The Firm, in way that unsettled her beyond belief - while Kate and Camilla are operating on a sunken cost dynamic. The latter two have spent the majority of their adult lives entwined with their (now) husbands and chasing the approval of the system. They've lost so many alternative years of personal development and experiences outside of that mission that it wouldn't be worth them leaving. Meghan was always going to do better outside of it than in.
I think it doesn't suit people's Cambridge vs. Sussex nonsense, but the truth is every woman who married into the royal family has had to have a degree of manipulative finesse. These women are all extremely dynamic, underestimated, charismatic and intelligent in their own right. A lot of it was by design. Let's be real. Yes the Middletons conspired to seal their family in the annals of history, yes Camilla conspired to marry in and try to rebuild her image after years of mockery and humiliation, yes Meghan knew who Prince Harry was before she met him.
Yes women deny and downplay these qualities across the board because they will be absolutely eviscerated for admitting to them.
The difference is, I genuinely believe that Meghan realised her life was far better before The Firm, in way that unsettled her beyond belief - while Kate and Camilla are operating on a sunken cost dynamic. The latter two have spent the majority of their adult lives entwined with their (now) husbands and chasing the approval of the system. They've lost so many alternative years of personal development and experiences outside of that mission that it wouldn't be worth them leaving. Meghan was always going to do better outside of it than in.
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great points. I completely agree.
CrackingOwlSanctuary
VIP Member
I think the downturn in quality of the latter series was they were too drawn into more recent events rather than previous series where they more successfully set up an internal issue against an external issue affecting the wider country every episode. As Diana came in the episodes lost that balance.
From Series 2 the Margaret casting was alot more dynamic and interesting while the queens seemed on a downward spiral
Curly Top
VIP Member
I found the scenes with William and Kate excruciating especially when he was at the Middleton's home commenting on the Queen whilst she was on TV. It seemed ludicrous that he would be talking like that to people he'd only just met.
Like everyone, I loved Lesley Manville's portrayal of Princess Margaret in her later years. Her acting with a stroke was exceptional. She actually made her likeable and really brought out her fun-loving side. The scenes with her and Imelda Staunton were so uplifting to watch - I love to think of them having such a close relationship.
The ending was superb and very moving. That last scene with Philip by that beautiful stained glass window was so well judged. It was a fitting end to the series.
Like everyone, I loved Lesley Manville's portrayal of Princess Margaret in her later years. Her acting with a stroke was exceptional. She actually made her likeable and really brought out her fun-loving side. The scenes with her and Imelda Staunton were so uplifting to watch - I love to think of them having such a close relationship.
The ending was superb and very moving. That last scene with Philip by that beautiful stained glass window was so well judged. It was a fitting end to the series.
kingseven
VIP Member
I did laugh out loud that it was Olivia telling the Queen to pack it in and Claire Foy insisting she keep going!
Does anyone have an opinion on Bertie Carvel as Tony Blair? To me although hit and miss in the final episodes there were times if I closed my eyes he sounded exactly like him. I think there was not enough PM in season six due to it being so rushed.
One thing I really wish they had included in the final series was when the Queen had the Star Spangled Banner played at the Changing of the Guard two days after 9/11. Understandably though that would have likely detracted from the Margaret episode given they mentioned Porchey died on the same day as the terror attacks.
I thought it was great casting. I know Bertie had a career in theatre but to me, he was most well known for playing Simon in Dr Foster.
I think that’s why he might’ve been cast as Tony Blair.
both characters are outwardly very astute and charming but with a tiny pinch of sleaze and ultimately, very disappointing.
I’m rewatching s3 and 4
did anyone else pick up on the foreshadowing when we are first introduced to Diana? She’s dressed up as puck from a midsummer nights dream.
in a midsummer nights dream, there’s a similar love triangle/conflict between lovers that mirrors the APB/Camilla/Charles/Diana situation about to unfold.
In a MSND Hermia and Lysander are in love. Demitrius is supposed to marry Hermia, but she loves Lysander. Meanwhile her friend, Helena, is in love with Demetrius.
puck comes along and outs a potion on Lysander which makes him fall in love with Helena, so we have a conflict where Demtrius loves Hermia, who loves Lysander, who loves Helena.
I thought it was a really clever bit of storytelling. There was so much happening in that scene, it was so layered.
i also loved the very pointed mirroring in the lunch the queen had with Andrew in which he refers to koo stark’s film in which a 17 year old is sexually abused in essence, by predators. It’s one of the few scenes where andrew speaks for any real length so it feels fitting he’s essentially describing the later behaviour of predator real life Andy.
did anyone else pick up on the foreshadowing when we are first introduced to Diana? She’s dressed up as puck from a midsummer nights dream.
in a midsummer nights dream, there’s a similar love triangle/conflict between lovers that mirrors the APB/Camilla/Charles/Diana situation about to unfold.
In a MSND Hermia and Lysander are in love. Demitrius is supposed to marry Hermia, but she loves Lysander. Meanwhile her friend, Helena, is in love with Demetrius.
puck comes along and outs a potion on Lysander which makes him fall in love with Helena, so we have a conflict where Demtrius loves Hermia, who loves Lysander, who loves Helena.
I thought it was a really clever bit of storytelling. There was so much happening in that scene, it was so layered.
i also loved the very pointed mirroring in the lunch the queen had with Andrew in which he refers to koo stark’s film in which a 17 year old is sexually abused in essence, by predators. It’s one of the few scenes where andrew speaks for any real length so it feels fitting he’s essentially describing the later behaviour of predator real life Andy.
fakesheikh
Chatty Member
…. And this is why I love Tattle.
petitspois
VIP Member
I've finished it last night and was pleasantly surprised. On the whole, I think the casting was spot on. Leaving aside Olivia Coleman and the newest Queen Mother, I think they got it right with either definite likenesses or the ability to capture the character really well.
As a series about the reign of QE2, I think it was excellent - with commentary about her life, her family and the events she lived through. Her reign was unique in many ways. It could have made some poor choices in terms of how it ended but I think it got it right. We all know full well what happened in the last 18/20 years so don't need to see it all again and it was a nice touch to have Claire Foy and the other one there for the final scene.
I'm not a royalist in any way but I'd say it's left me more sympathetic to their position. Or some of them at least, Andy can still get in the bin.
As a series about the reign of QE2, I think it was excellent - with commentary about her life, her family and the events she lived through. Her reign was unique in many ways. It could have made some poor choices in terms of how it ended but I think it got it right. We all know full well what happened in the last 18/20 years so don't need to see it all again and it was a nice touch to have Claire Foy and the other one there for the final scene.
I'm not a royalist in any way but I'd say it's left me more sympathetic to their position. Or some of them at least, Andy can still get in the bin.
Mark81
VIP Member
I think she could have been fine if she was styled differently and directed/acted differently. Why she was directed/written as a dotty old lady I don't know. Costume wise she didn't seem right either, so the look wasn't there.
Chinese_whispers
VIP Member
I don’t understand the Olivia Coleman hate? Claire Foy was always going to be a tough act to follow but what is it about Olivia’s turn that people don’t like?
QEII was a hard woman who unfortunately didn’t turn out the best children except Anne. She had a notoriously bad attitude towards Charles and turned a blind eye to any conflict. I see all of that in Olivia. She probably looks like her the least but that’s the only bit I can think of.
QEII was a hard woman who unfortunately didn’t turn out the best children except Anne. She had a notoriously bad attitude towards Charles and turned a blind eye to any conflict. I see all of that in Olivia. She probably looks like her the least but that’s the only bit I can think of.
Boredofgrey
VIP Member
The voice wasn’t quite there either for me but she always had it tough following young and beautiful Claire and wasn’t cute adorable old lady Imelda…….
petitspois
VIP Member
For me, she was pulling too much of a jowly disgruntled look - in fact much the same as the role she plays in the new Wonka film- a peasant landlady. Also, maybe the wider realisation that she plays every role in the same way.
I do agree about QE2. I think she was distant and a bit cold as a mother and her duties came first. DoE seemed the same.