Taylor Swift #39 Five stages of capitalism

Will the set list change for the next leg of the tour?

  • Yes, to include a TTPD set and remove nothing

    Votes: 23 13.9%
  • Yes, to include a TTPD set and remove something

    Votes: 72 43.6%
  • No, it will be the exact same

    Votes: 63 38.2%
  • Something else (post what you think)

    Votes: 7 4.2%

  • Total voters
    165
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And this is exactly why I hate that she's done this. She knows what's she's doing, it's just disappointing.
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Cause she cannot pass up the opportunity to play victim. Honestly, I would have preferred her silence to this.
Red flags don't have to mean that Joe was some sort of monster. Just that the relationship was doomed.

I'm so not into social media and followers (I probably only follow about 5 famous people) etc but I noticed yesterday Joe still follows Taylor on Instagram, which I thought was interesting.
 
I don’t think Joe is perfect but it’s the revisionist takes from fans who were gassing him up after Sweet Nothing, Peace, Lover, Delicate that have done a 180 with no evidence and started calling him an abuser and a narc that I have to eye roll at. I do think it’s decent of him not to run his mouth off especially given how Taylor seemingly wanted privacy with him but then is claiming Travis shows up for her. Maybe that’s a bit of retaliation though…

Really it’s probably inbetween and they were just no longer suited. I don’t think there was any cheating or anyone was nasty. I think it was probably just we have got to a point where we want different things. Maybe Taylor excepted Joe to compromise on something big and he wasn’t for it and she wasn’t for passing up on something.
 
I don’t think Joe is perfect but it’s the revisionist takes from fans who were gassing him up after Sweet Nothing, Peace, Lover, Delicate that have done a 180 with no evidence and started calling him an abuser and a narc that I have to eye roll at. I do think it’s decent of him not to run his mouth off especially given how Taylor seemingly wanted privacy with him but then is claiming Travis shows up for her. Maybe that’s a bit of retaliation though…

Really it’s probably inbetween and they were just no longer suited. I don’t think there was any cheating or anyone was nasty. I think it was probably just we have got to a point where we want different things. Maybe Taylor excepted Joe to compromise on something big and he wasn’t for it and she wasn’t for passing up on something.
I just assume a lot of these swifties are very young and have never had a long slow relationship breakdown where it burns out over several years rather than some massive dramatic ending so they feel there must be a big secret reason.
 
I just assume a lot of these swifties are very young and have never had a long slow relationship breakdown where it burns out over several years rather than some massive dramatic ending so they feel there must be a big secret reason.

Yes this really annoys me, like the only way a breakup can be sad is if there’s a clear villain / hero and if someone DID SOMETHING VERY WRONG, like life isn’t like that sometimes. To go back to myself because Taylor has done this to me and made me relive my pain 😂 with me it was just that the guy didn’t love me as much as I did him and ‘just’ that undramatic fact ruined me for years.

It also speaks to just generally how we in society have lost the art of nuance - everything has to be so instant, so black and white, nobody seems able to think critically any more or discuss more than one side to something. Apart from us on this thread obv, we are perfect 😍 haha.
 
Yes this really annoys me, like the only way a breakup can be sad is if there’s a clear villain / hero and if someone DID SOMETHING VERY WRONG, like life isn’t like that sometimes. To go back to myself because Taylor has done this to me and made me relive my pain 😂 with me it was just that the guy didn’t love me as much as I did him and ‘just’ that undramatic fact ruined me for years.

It also speaks to just generally how we in society have lost the art of nuance - everything has to be so instant, so black and white, nobody seems able to think critically any more or discuss more than one side to something. Apart from us on this thread obv, we are perfect 😍 haha.
The long slow death is even sadder in my opinion, there is something so heartbreaking about just falling out of love and it’s even scarier because it can just happen even if you both behave perfectly and no one does a thing wrong. Even sadder if it’s just one of you and the other doesn’t understand what they’ve done wrong, or why you’re leaving, because they still love you.

But yes I agree re nuance, I get people can interpret things however they want though, it’s just frustrating when to me I dunno how you can take something so out of context and jump to ‘omg she is saying thing were bad even when she wrote lover’

Maybe she does look back and think she was blinded by love but she isn’t saying things were bad even then IMO, she’s saying even if they were she never would have seen it because she was so in love and things seemed so good.

And by putting clear non Joe songs on there she’s also telling us this happens with every break up. Idk how you get Joe was some abusive villain from that given STYLE is on there.
 
Red flags don't have to mean that Joe was some sort of monster. Just that the relationship was doomed.

I'm so not into social media and followers (I probably only follow about 5 famous people) etc but I noticed yesterday Joe still follows Taylor on Instagram, which I thought was interesting.
Imagine the reaction he’d get if he unfollowed..I’d bet he’s secretly turned off her posts from appearing though
 
People are so weirdly reading into this on Twitter . She directly says with the anger playlist ‘I wrote these songs when I was angry’ she’s not saying she wrote all the songs in the denial playlist when she was in denial, but they are all love songs she wrote about people who it didn’t work out with. Or about people being in love/forgiving (eg Betty). They are not even all Joe songs.

When you are in denial about a relationship breakdown, you romanticise all the good times as why you can’t leave. The songs are proof of the good times. The songs are like looking back at picture/memories and being like ‘but we were so happy, it can’t be over’. Denial/delusion.

People on Twitter like ‘omg she’s rewriting the whole lore/past’ clearly don’t have a single thought in their brains and have to take what she says and turn it into the most simplistic form. Untouchable is on there ffs… she didn’t even write untouchable 😅

But at this point with Taylor’s career what she does doesn’t exist in a vacuum away from Swifties’ behaviour. Even if she didn’t intend to fuel the theories with this, she’s said nothing to disabuse fans of the notion that they’re defending her by doing the most with her exes. I’m not saying she’s directly responsible for people’s crazy behaviour but if she’s online enough to respond to this theory in the first place, she’ll know about the abuse directed at Joe. Regardless of whatever feelings she may have towards him, I wouldn’t want that on my conscience. Putting some of the songs she did on the playlist are deliberately provocative.
 
Red flags don't have to mean that Joe was some sort of monster. Just that the relationship was doomed.
I completely agree with this in general, but at this point I sadly do think Taylor is manipulating her naive and young audience in the name of ‘winning the breakup’ . Using the term ‘Red flags’ in this context is loaded and she knows it. She needs to grow up. I think I’m at a point where if TTPD is just a slander album then I’m going to need to rethink the time I give to Taylor, but I’m keeping my hopes up…
 
Using the term ‘Red flags’ in this context is loaded and she knows it.
She may well mean it as a general thing because some of those songs aren’t necessarily about Joe

However, at the same time, she’s definitely aware that people expect everything to be about Joe and she is playing into that


I also find it so disappointing that people are pushing how she has now ruined Lover as a song for weddings and whatever by putting it on the denial playlist. Large parts of this fandom really just can’t think for themselves
 
But at this point with Taylor’s career what she does doesn’t exist in a vacuum away from Swifties’ behaviour. Even if she didn’t intend to fuel the theories with this, she’s said nothing to disabuse fans of the notion that they’re defending her by doing the most with her exes. I’m not saying she’s directly responsible for people’s crazy behaviour but if she’s online enough to respond to this theory in the first place, she’ll know about the abuse directed at Joe. Regardless of whatever feelings she may have towards him, I wouldn’t want that on my conscience. Putting some of the songs she did on the playlist are deliberately provocative.
I’ve said it before but if people need Taylor to outright tell them not to be a dick, they have issues. I still place 100% of the blame on the people who think it’s ok to go after someone they don’t know with no proof of any wrong doing. They are basing their comments on theories they have made up off of their interpretation. Even things she has said are fictional (folklore love triangle) people are now trying to say isn’t based off their own weird ideas and is somehow about her and Joe. She did say during tour last year before DJ not to go after anyone on her behalf. Maybe she will make a similar statement before she sings TTPD songs but I don’t think it’s necessary.

If 95% of her fanbase can behave like normal human beings and not post weird theories or call someone an abuser based on legit nothing then the other 5% of weirdos can too imo.
 
I think she secretly loves the hate Joe gets, and she always plays right into the narrative, which doesn’t sit right with me.
it’s borderline abusive behaviour in my opinion

Well we don’t know that to be fair
It’s just so happens that majority of her recent songs are about him because that’s who she was with in the longest relationship! Is she meant to never sing them or talk about them?

we could come to these conclusions if the only songs on these playlists for example would be Rep onwards, but they aren’t
 
Well we don’t know that to be fair
It’s just so happens that majority of her recent songs are about him because that’s who she was with in the longest relationship! Is she meant to never sing them or talk about them?

we could come to these conclusions if the only songs on these playlists for example would be Rep onwards, but they aren’t
It’s not the playlists, it’s her dropping subtle shade at him that she knows is going to lead to him being abused online.
 
The times interview, her choices of surprise songs when certain rumours are flying around, and her not saying shit when Joe is being ripped to shreds on the internet despite being happy to tell people to lay off John Mayer.
If this album doesn’t come with a disclaimer like Ariana grandes did, it speaks volumes about her

That’s fair.
I expect she only did the John Mayer thing because he involved lawyers though and can’t imagine she would otherwise.
 
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