Sir Keir Starmer

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He has been much better than Boris at handling Covid and the lockdowns. He announced he was closing welsh schools last March and forced Boris‘ hand, he was wary about opening things up too fast last summer (and was proven right), and at Christmas when Covid rates were going through the roof he shut all non essential retail, hair and beauty salons, gyms and hospitality immediately. There was no we’ll give you a few days grace like Boris did, no, they closed at 6pm on a Saturday evening about ten days before Christmas and didnt open up again until a fortnight ago. Lots of people were caught out because we hadn’t finished Christmas shopping etc. It was that sudden and unexpected. But I still believe it was the right thing to do.
I live in Wales and thought that Drakeford would follow everything Boris did like a sheep
I was so very wrong , he has shown what great leadership skills he has and his judgement is 💯 better than BJ
He also puts people before profit, I have the utmost respect for him.
 
He has been much better than Boris at handling Covid and the lockdowns. He announced he was closing welsh schools last March and forced Boris‘ hand, he was wary about opening things up too fast last summer (and was proven right), and at Christmas when Covid rates were going through the roof he shut all non essential retail, hair and beauty salons, gyms and hospitality immediately. There was no we’ll give you a few days grace like Boris did, no, they closed at 6pm on a Saturday evening about ten days before Christmas and didnt open up again until a fortnight ago. Lots of people were caught out because we hadn’t finished Christmas shopping etc. It was that sudden and unexpected. But I still believe it was the right thing to do.
Didn't he live in his garden shed?
 
I’ve really struggled with Sir Keir as a leader. Some of his work as the DPP was outstanding. But he missed his calling in politics. He could have made a great centerist leader when people like Chukka Umunna left the main parties. And a centrist party is what most people seemingly need. He seems lost in a labour party that isn’t about workers and the working class anymore, the ideals he seems to actually hold.
Labour is still way too woke from the momentum fiasco. The Liberal Democrats have got even more vague. The rest of the left, well erm....... yeah. The small parties on the right are just nuts
The Torys are the closest we have to ‘normal’ for people who don’t just want to be told ‘your life doesn’t represent the view of blue haired 19year olds who make up identities so you are all doing life WRONG!!’ But they are just spiraling
I still can’t understand how they are still holding the places they are if I really look at it- the northern working class areas what are traditional labour heartlands, just don’t fit what the newnelabour
 
totally agree, I have family in Wales so have been following how things have gone there and it has been so much better, both Scotland and Wales have done far better than England regard covid
That still doesn't explain why Labour in England and Scotland are so tit though
Starmer was calling for earlier lockdown too. The Tories were 2 weeks late on everything, threw money around, wasting it on shocking procurement to their mates etc. I was wondering why Labour were still so awful in England. They are dead in Scotland too which means they will have amount tain to climb if they ever want to win a General Election again.
 
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I’ve really struggled with Sir Keir as a leader. Some of his work as the DPP was outstanding. But he missed his calling in politics. He could have made a great centerist leader when people like Chukka Umunna left the main parties. And a centrist party is what most people seemingly need. He seems lost in a labour party that isn’t about workers and the working class anymore, the ideals he seems to actually hold.
Labour is still way too woke from the momentum fiasco. The Liberal Democrats have got even more vague. The rest of the left, well erm....... yeah. The small parties on the right are just nuts
The Torys are the closest we have to ‘normal’ for people who don’t just want to be told ‘your life doesn’t represent the view of blue haired 19year olds who make up identities so you are all doing life WRONG!!’ But they are just spiraling
I still can’t understand how they are still holding the places they are if I really look at it- the northern working class areas what are traditional labour heartlands, just don’t fit what the newnelabour
In desperation looking for a party that I could actually vote for, I came across the SDP. I really like their policies and they seem centre left like me and have policies on womens rights I approve of ( which no party on the Left do). But because they dont stand in my constituency I cant vote for them. And FPTP means they have no chance. I wonder if all the parties on the Left joined together ( even though most of them hate each other) and managed to hold it together long enough to win an election and reform the voting system we would have PR and allow a decent opposition to form.
 
Labour are just too woke to ever get elected anywhere outside of the South East. They patronise working class people instead of tying to understand them and their views and until that changes they won’t win elections.


This is true , I am in the midlands and many people will say labour are out of touch with us and are more concerned with wokeness and identity politics. I also think brexit had a huge part in the red wall collapse.

I liked Jeremy Corbyn although many people in the area didn't .
 
I'm actually lost with where to place my future votes. As it stands right now anyway obviously i know a lot can change in a short space of time (thanks covid)

I'm moving to Scotland i think 🙃🙃

But just to add to my earlier comments....Sir Keir Starmer will NEVER get the working class votes imo
However i do think England is missing that really strong party to contest the main ones.

Where are the old red votes going?

I can't get on board with the idea that they have ALL turned blue
 
I'm actually lost with where to place my future votes. As it stands right now anyway obviously i know a lot can change in a short space of time (thanks covid)

I'm moving to Scotland i think 🙃🙃

But just to add to my earlier comments....Sir Keir Starmer will NEVER get the working class votes imo
However i do think England is missing that really strong party to contest the main ones.

Where are the old red votes going?

I can't get on board with the idea that they have ALL turned blue
I think they just aren't turning up to vote. In Harlepool, the Brexit party and the Tories split the vote last time and let Labour in. This time there was no Brexit Party so they all voted Tory. The people who couldn't vote Tory stayed at home I think rather than vote for them.
 
A huge problem Labour are facing is the refusal of the leadership to accept responsibility for the parties failures. Corbyn’s been gone over a year now, using the ‘we’re not the Jeremy Corbyn’ party doesn’t work anymore. A family who can’t afford to feed their kids don’t care about that, it’s not a policy. Labour don’t have any distinguishing characteristics that separate them from the Tories.

Another problem is the core of the party seem to hold a large part of the parties traditional base in disdain. I’ve seen lots of the classic London champagne socialists out on Twitter using a YouGov poll showing the education level of voters in Hartlepool as an example of why Labour lost. Basically the vast majority of people without a uni degree voted Tory. Long story short, implying that people who didn’t vote Labour are just thick, not that they probably didn’t vote Labour because Labour don’t align with their values anymore.

Who are the Labour party now? Why would anyone vote for Starmer to lead the country when he’s offering nothing new? Why change what Starmer himself doesn’t seem to want to fix? That’s why Labour are losing. They don’t have any principles, any policies. What are they offering?
 
The Labour Party as we know it will never be the same. Blair took it too far over to the right and then Corbyn took it over to the left again and the traditional voters (white, W/c, northern) have been sucked in by right-wing media narratives what play on fear (think losing jobs to immigrants etc). Right wing parties jumped on this. Brexit was the nail in the coffin.

I think it’s sad. My political views are left leaning and it annoys me that people I know divide the left vote by voting Green (nothing wrong with that). I don’t think Labour having a re-shuffle will solve anything. I think Keir could be electable, I just don’t know what else the party could do.
 
A huge problem Labour are facing is the refusal of the leadership to accept responsibility for the parties failures. Corbyn’s been gone over a year now, using the ‘we’re not the Jeremy Corbyn’ party doesn’t work anymore. A family who can’t afford to feed their kids don’t care about that, it’s not a policy. Labour don’t have any distinguishing characteristics that separate them from the Tories.

Another problem is the core of the party seem to hold a large part of the parties traditional base in disdain. I’ve seen lots of the classic London champagne socialists out on Twitter using a YouGov poll showing the education level of voters in Hartlepool as an example of why Labour lost. Basically the vast majority of people without a uni degree voted Tory. Long story short, implying that people who didn’t vote Labour are just thick, not that they probably didn’t vote Labour because Labour don’t align with their values anymore.

Who are the Labour party now? Why would anyone vote for Starmer to lead the country when he’s offering nothing new? Why change what Starmer himself doesn’t seem to want to fix? That’s why Labour are losing. They don’t have any principles, any policies. What are they offering?
Completely agree with you. 50% of people don't have a university degree. Who do they think the Working Class are? Labour need to ditch pretending they are the party of the downtrodden and working class if they are spending their time sneering at the working class for being too stupid to do as they are told. They need to be a middle class party along the lines of the Lib Dems. But to do that they will have to ditch union support, which they cant afford to do. The two factions of the party are too different and they hate each other more than they hate the Tories.

The Labour Party as we know it will never be the same. Blair took it too far over to the right and then Corbyn took it over to the left again and the traditional voters (white, W/c, northern) have been sucked in by right-wing media narratives what play on fear (think losing jobs to immigrants etc). Right wing parties jumped on this. Brexit was the nail in the coffin.

I think it’s sad. My political views are left leaning and it annoys me that people I know divide the left vote by voting Green (nothing wrong with that). I don’t think Labour having a re-shuffle will solve anything. I think Keir could be electable, I just don’t know what else the party could do.
The problem is a lot of them did lose their jobs to EU immigrants, because they were cheaper and yes, in a lot of cases better workers. British employers have always been averse to training their own workforce, preferring to bring in people from overseas that someone else has already trained. That is not the fault of immigrants, but of successive governments. But the fact is that people who did not have a decent education were being undercut in low skilled jobs and all they saw from Labour were them pandering to the middle class metropolitan elite and talking about university tuition fees, paid for partly through the taxes of the 50% of the population who didn't go to university. The non university educated in Hartlepool didn't not vote for Labour because they were 'thick' but because Labour didn't offer them anything at all.
I think we do need to move to a system of PR but that will never happen while the Tories are in power, so it will never happen. All the parties on the Left need to unite into a coalition then implement PR but they wont because they all hate each other and wont be able to agree on who will lead the thing.
 
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Completely agree with you. 50% of people don't have a university degree. Who do they think the Working Class are? Labour need to ditch pretending they are the party of the downtrodden and working class if they are spending their time sneering at the working class for being too stupid to do as they are told. They need to be a middle class party along the lines of the Lib Dems. But to do that they will have to ditch union support, which they cant afford to do. The two factions of the party are too different and they hate each other more than they hate the Tories.
Exactly. Labour have always been a left wing party. At its heart, it doesn’t know how to be anything else. The last twenty years of the media and establishment, including Labour themselves, vilifying the EU and immigrants as a way of deflecting from their own failings and greed has culminated in the vast majority of the working class misplacing their grievances onto the EU and immigrants instead of those in power that have caused them the vast majority of their problems.

It suited the establishment to do this at the time but now it’s coming back to bite Labour. They want to be the party of the EU and minorities like immigrants yet stood by for years letting them get trashed to avoid looking bad themselves. Now, the working class won’t vote for a party who want to protect those minorities and the EU because they see them as the problem. They’ve turned the working class against itself and by extension themselves.
 
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