Sir Keir Starmer #2

1
Veronicaaa said:
What *is* British values though?
Click to expand...

Like it or not, British values are grounded in Christianity. Look to the 10 commandments and to the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament to understand the values of this country. They aren't anything special and are shared by other Christian countries - there's often a thinking that they have to be 'unique' and confuse them with culture and heritage.

Culture and values are different, which is why it often boils down to stupid arguments about fish and chips and bland food. Noone ever gets a decent answer, and it then looks like there are no values.
 
The argument about immigration needs to be firmly categorised into 2 parts:

1 - legal routes which allow the assessment of who is coming in…so gives the option of attracting people with skills/qualifications this country is short of.

2 - illegal routes which doesn’t allow that because they are usually not documented or qualifications/references etc can’t be confirmed…so gives us people who may/may not speak English but as they’ve managed to get here unaided they are likely to be generally able-bodied….so if we have a shortage for low-skilled jobs, they can form a supply.

Which types of immigration we want, should depend on what we need. Policies should then be applied to get the flow of people to match that.

I genuinely don’t understand why, when these young men who have travelled across Europe and the channel as put in hotels and given pocket money by the government and prevented from working legally for possibly months. They will be grouped together and bored, it’s asking for trouble. Why can’t they be bused out to a farm or put to work doing street cleaning etc, just 40 hours a week like everyone else does…just normal jobs with lunch breaks etc nothing particularly harsh that young able-bodied men aren’t capable of. Take a deduction for their hotel bill and still give them their same pocket money. Do that while they await their asylum decision. If someone isn’t willing to work while they are awaiting a decision to remain permanently…that’s a surefire sign that they haven’t come here to integrate and contribute at all.

There probably wouldn’t be enough work placements for all of them, but that in itself would signify a major issue…because if there isn’t, it also raises the question of what these people will be doing with their time once they receive approval to remain.
 
I don't think the illegal undocumented migrants can do any work because then that would automatically give them rights.
In the past we might have needed lots of unskilled labour but blue collar unskilled manual jobs are pretty rare these days. For all the jobs with shortages it's not something anyone can turn up on and start doing with no training or experience.
We need migrants is such a simple take on something complex. We have many skilled jobs to be filled. If you have these skills you can apply for a visa and get them. But these skilled people can go anywhere in the world and every country has these gaps and are competing to try and get the finite supply of highly skilled people.
 
The number of illegal immigrants is quite a lot lower than the number of legal ones, and most illegal immigrants are people who overstay visas. The number of people coming on boats is, in the scheme of things, not that many.

Which isn't to say that we should ignore the boats, but it seems to be the only thing anyone ever mentions when it comes to immigration.
 
The boat crossings are about 150'000 so far.

Considering every one of those needs to be fed, clothed and housed before then spending years more of public resources to decide their status the cost is huge.

These people cost £41'000 a year to alone house and we've no idea who most are. That many undocumented people is a concern and out of the 150'000 there has been a far higher crime rate.

These people are a total cost of £4.7bn for FY 23-24. That is huge. Legal migrants can work or receive education and contribute to the system.

www.independent.co.uk

Cost of housing an asylum seeker ‘soars from £17k to £41k in four years’

Think tank criticises ‘glaring lack of effective oversight’ of contracts for asylum seeker hotels
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
 
Eye_Spy said:
The argument about immigration needs to be firmly categorised into 2 parts:

1 - legal routes which allow the assessment of who is coming in…so gives the option of attracting people with skills/qualifications this country is short of.

2 - illegal routes which doesn’t allow that because they are usually not documented or qualifications/references etc can’t be confirmed…so gives us people who may/may not speak English but as they’ve managed to get here unaided they are likely to be generally able-bodied….so if we have a shortage for low-skilled jobs, they can form a supply.

Which types of immigration we want, should depend on what we need. Policies should then be applied to get the flow of people to match that.

I genuinely don’t understand why, when these young men who have travelled across Europe and the channel as put in hotels and given pocket money by the government and prevented from working legally for possibly months. They will be grouped together and bored, it’s asking for trouble. Why can’t they be bused out to a farm or put to work doing street cleaning etc, just 40 hours a week like everyone else does…just normal jobs with lunch breaks etc nothing particularly harsh that young able-bodied men aren’t capable of. Take a deduction for their hotel bill and still give them their same pocket money. Do that while they await their asylum decision. If someone isn’t willing to work while they are awaiting a decision to remain permanently…that’s a surefire sign that they haven’t come here to integrate and contribute at all.

There probably wouldn’t be enough work placements for all of them, but that in itself would signify a major issue…because if there isn’t, it also raises the question of what these people will be doing with their time once they receive approval to remain.
Click to expand...
There’s no placements for newly trained medical professionals until the overseas quota is filled, we’re poaching medical pros from poor countries ( red list) substandard qualifications ,to fill low paid positions and forcing our home grown talent overseas …Madness!
 
Eye_Spy said:
The argument about immigration needs to be firmly categorised into 2 parts:

1 - legal routes which allow the assessment of who is coming in…so gives the option of attracting people with skills/qualifications this country is short of.

2 - illegal routes which doesn’t allow that because they are usually not documented or qualifications/references etc can’t be confirmed…so gives us people who may/may not speak English but as they’ve managed to get here unaided they are likely to be generally able-bodied….so if we have a shortage for low-skilled jobs, they can form a supply.

Which types of immigration we want, should depend on what we need. Policies should then be applied to get the flow of people to match that.

I genuinely don’t understand why, when these young men who have travelled across Europe and the channel as put in hotels and given pocket money by the government and prevented from working legally for possibly months. They will be grouped together and bored, it’s asking for trouble. Why can’t they be bused out to a farm or put to work doing street cleaning etc, just 40 hours a week like everyone else does…just normal jobs with lunch breaks etc nothing particularly harsh that young able-bodied men aren’t capable of. Take a deduction for their hotel bill and still give them their same pocket money. Do that while they await their asylum decision. If someone isn’t willing to work while they are awaiting a decision to remain permanently…that’s a surefire sign that they haven’t come here to integrate and contribute at all.

There probably wouldn’t be enough work placements for all of them, but that in itself would signify a major issue…because if there isn’t, it also raises the question of what these people will be doing with their time once they receive approval to remain.
Click to expand...
We should NEVER allow illegal/ undocumented immigration.

We have allowed criminals - rapists, murderers, child abusers, thieves - to enter this country without any control. We have enough home-grown criminals - we don't need to import them.

Immigration of this type is a Trojan horse. Islamic extremists have imported an army which can be used to take over our countries and impose what they consider should be the law. Do we really want a law that permits men to murder their children the way Sara Sharif was murdered? Sharia law allows it, it seems, and many areas of the UK are unofficially living under it. The government is frightened to cross them- and I'm not surprised.

We are being taken over in plain sight, and if you think otherwise you are very naive.
 
BigCatFace said:
Like it or not, British values are grounded in Christianity. Look to the 10 commandments and to the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament to understand the values of this country. They aren't anything special and are shared by other Christian countries - there's often a thinking that they have to be 'unique' and confuse them with culture and heritage.

Culture and values are different, which is why it often boils down to stupid arguments about fish and chips and bland food. Noone ever gets a decent answer, and it then looks like there are no values.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response. I, personally, don't like the idea of the 'values' of any country / state being tied to religion - any religion - but a quick google confirms both Starmer and Sunak have described it similarly so that definition makes sense.
 
Veronicaaa said:
Thanks for the response. I, personally, don't like the idea of the 'values' of any country / state being tied to religion - any religion - but a quick google confirms both Starmer and Sunak have described it similarly so that definition makes sense.
Click to expand...
It has always bugged me when people go on about Christian values as if you can only be a decent person through god (and one particular definition of god at that). Being a decent person with good morals isn’t owned by the church. As can be seen by horrific stories in the ideas, plenty of religious people have done some horrific things and many of the Christian people I know are quite frankly judgemental bigots with values that don’t fit in with what I would consider a good person. If somebody wants to live through their religion and this helps them be a decent member of society then fair enough but it’s not a monopoly or even guaranteed.
 
Some love to be obtuse when you say British values.
But British values are stuff like women's rights and gay rights. A couple of cities in the UK could be a majority Muslim within a decade and you can bet they will try to push through their rules and erode rights that have been fought hard for. Tolerance is being taken advantage of by the intolerant.
 
TheMiceInTheShed said:
We should NEVER allow illegal/ undocumented immigration.

We have allowed criminals - rapists, murderers, child abusers, thieves - to enter this country without any control. We have enough home-grown criminals - we don't need to import them.

Immigration of this type is a Trojan horse. Islamic extremists have imported an army which can be used to take over our countries and impose what they consider should be the law. Do we really want a law that permits men to murder their children the way Sara Sharif was murdered? Sharia law allows it, it seems, and many areas of the UK are unofficially living under it. The government is frightened to cross them- and I'm not surprised.

We are being taken over in plain sight, and if you think otherwise you are very naive.
Click to expand...
Kneeler has just appointed shamama beguns defence lawyer as his attorney General, and we know which way that will probably go. 🤔
 
IMG_1582.jpeg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top