House Prices #3 Property market, buying and selling

[Yel]

Economist in the telegraph, seems logical

House prices will fall faster and further than anyone expects

archived 29 Dec 2022 07:07:39 UTC

archive.vn

uk house prices why fall 2023

archived 28 Dec 2022 04:29:57 UTC

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[underwhelmed1985]

Economist in the telegraph, seems logical

House prices will fall faster and further than anyone expects

archived 29 Dec 2022 07:07:39 UTC

archive.vn

uk house prices why fall 2023

archived 28 Dec 2022 04:29:57 UTC

archive.vn

I really worry for those on 90/95% mortgages where negative equity is a real concern. I am in a very fortunate position where I now have about 90% equity based on current values so can withstand the value going down a bit. Chucking all our efforts at overpaying what’s left on the mortgage with the aim to be mortgage free in five years, all going well which I appreciate is a very fortunate position

 

[Yel]

Only those that bought very recently with a high LTV and short fix of 2 years will be really affected negativity. Which is a tiny tiny amount of property in the UK.

Those on 5 year fixes before interest rates rose will be fine at the end of that term even if they bought at the top. No one is buying with today's interest rates with high LTV. Even things completing recently are mainly mortgage rates rolled over.

While it's not good for anyone to face hardship, the fall was kinda inevitable and it will affect a tiny amount compared to proping up the sky high prices.

People have been fucked over massively by 10-20% rises each year and there was next to no concern for them, although there really should have been as it massively negatively affected the whole of society.

 

[Folkevermore]

As someone who plans on buying in the next year on a 10% deposit, it is what it is. Even if I have to go on a standard variable after a couple of years to make even, it’s not fair to expect everyone who wants to get on the ladder to be crippled at my expense.
I’m planning on buying a sensible sized house where I won’t have to move for at least 5 years, and make do

 

[Yel]

There's this really toxic expectation that you should do whatever you can to buy a property then it'll only ever increase in price. Obviously pyramid schemes only last for so long and do a lot of destruction.

Should be made very clear when buying a house that it can go up and down in value. As can the interest rate. It's a gamble. Life is a gamble. There's no such thing as a safe bet.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

There's this really toxic expectation that you should do whatever you can to buy a property then it'll only ever increase in price. Obviously pyramid schemes only last for so long and do a lot of destruction.

Should be made very clear when buying a house that it can go up and down in value. As can the interest rate. It's a gamble. Life is a gamble. There's no such thing as a safe bet.

Plus I don’t think it’s essential for everybody to own their own property.
Yes it would be nice but renting also has it’s advantages.
It’s been drilled into people’s heads that owning is the holy grail. It’s not. Properties need maintenance and it can become an expensive exercise

 

[Folkevermore]

Plus I don’t think it’s essential for everybody to own their own property.
Yes it would be nice but renting also has it’s advantages.
It’s been drilled into people’s heads that owning is the holy grail. It’s not. Properties need maintenance and it can become an expensive exercise

The issue with not owning is retirement. Let’s be real, there will be very little if any state pension when millenials and gen z reach retirement age so many people will be truly fucked if they are still paying rent.

there are of course ways to fix this, including hugely increasing social housing etc but I can’t see it happening.

usually people will be paying a mortgage either way; either their own or a landlords. Better to be paying your own then spending your money to increase the wealth of someone else

 

[Yel]

Plus I don’t think it’s essential for everybody to own their own property.
Yes it would be nice but renting also has it’s advantages.
It’s been drilled into people’s heads that owning is the holy grail. It’s not. Properties need maintenance and it can become an expensive exercise

Agree, although with how little protection renter's have in the UK and the sky high rents you can see why renting in the UK is looked down on - like you're a second class citizen.

There should be a proper alternative to buying.

This amateur buy to let stuff should have been nipped in the bud back when it started in 1997.

All the speculation since then and the last 15ish years of printing money and artificially keeping rates low was always going to lead to what we're experiencing now.

 

[Megansnarkle]

The issue with not owning is retirement. Let’s be real, there will be very little if any state pension when millenials and gen z reach retirement age so many people will be truly fucked if they are still paying rent.

there are of course ways to fix this, including hugely increasing social housing etc but I can’t see it happening.

usually people will be paying a mortgage either way; either their own or a landlords. Better to be paying your own then spending your money to increase the wealth of someone else

This! The problem is always that the people that talk about how owning property is overrated tend to directly overlap with those who definitely aren't saving enough for retirement to keep up with renting in the private market. Even if your property never increases in value, the main objective in buying should be to have a mortgage-free place to live by retirement.

Owning property is a huge part of most people's pension planning and it kills me when I see people with a kind of YOLO attitude to getting on the property ladder. Like fine, live your 20s in London and travelling at every opportunity but if you're still doing that in your 30s and don't have rich parents to fall back on? I'm giving you serious side eye.

 

[Anne1448]

A lot more people would be renting long term if the rent wasn't consuming 40% of their earnings.

Ireland is just as bad as the UK when it comes to renters' rights. You should consider yourself lucky if your landlord isn't increasing the rent price every year, if they take care of the rental and if they come to do repairs.

 

[Yel]

it kills me when I see people with a kind of YOLO attitude to getting on the property ladder. Like fine, live your 20s in London and travelling at every opportunity but if you're still doing that in your 30s and don't have rich parents to fall back on? I'm giving you serious side eye.

To be honest I see the total opposite.

I see people just graduated at 22 and are desperate to get a mortgage and sign themselves up to a lifetime of debt on an overpriced asset.

I find that sad. I'd of hated to waste my 20s working hard to pay off some overpriced bricks and saying no to experiences.

Everyone seems desperate to buy a house, isnt it something like 95% of renters want to buy, and the rest are mainly students, lucked out on the social housing lottery or people that don't plan to be in the UK.

I find the boomer mail reader stereotype of young people spending all their money on holidays, clothes and avocados to virtually not exist in reality. No matter how hard they try to paint everyone young as being feckless and wasteful. Young people are more serious than ever, no Woodstock or free love for people these days!

 

[theweekend]

This! The problem is always that the people that talk about how owning property is overrated tend to directly overlap with those who definitely aren't saving enough for retirement to keep up with renting in the private market. Even if your property never increases in value, the main objective in buying should be to have a mortgage-free place to live by retirement.

Owning property is a huge part of most people's pension planning and it kills me when I see people with a kind of YOLO attitude to getting on the property ladder. Like fine, live your 20s in London and travelling at every opportunity but if you're still doing that in your 30s and don't have rich parents to fall back on? I'm giving you serious side eye.

Could not agree more. I have (/had…) a friend that is the classic traveller type, she has a full on phobia of corporate life but is very much up her own arse about it and makes no secret of the fact she thinks my life is shit. She’ll work part time in retail only but keeps quitting, usually not by choice though (e.g. her manager has had enough cause she keeps calling in sick with bullshit excuses so the environment becomes too toxic, etc).

Last time I saw her we were discussing my recent promotion and new home outside of London - she made sure to state how she couldn’t think of anything worse than working in an office full time, would never move out of London and loves renting in central/doesn’t feel the need to buy and will happily rent for the rest of her life. So I said it’s not really about me/anyone ‘wanting’ to own versus rent, it’s really about needing a place to live once you can no longer work. She said oh well my parents have properties so I’ll just inherit those. I said but can you guarantee that though? If a parent needs full time care for years that can be your inheritance obliterated, which is why I don’t consider mine in any pension planning. She hasn’t spoken to me since

 

[Yel]

Pension advice is laughable for 98% of people at the moment. The idea that people in their 30s could put aside 30% of their income, or 40% in 40s etc and have enough money to exist today is so far detached from reality.

20-30 years on a state pension was never going to last. A wholly unsustainable system that should have had reform decades ago.

I think the best pension advice would be to get a job you like, because retirement will never come for most people.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

Nope, not owning a property isn't just for YOLO's. There are great alternatives to living in places that charges most of your salary. But again people bought into the idea that you must live in certain places. That they are entitled to certain things. Go to Wales when you retire. You can pick up houses dirt cheap there or even rent at minimal prices. But God forbid people have to move away from where they feel they are entitled to stay

 

[Meg78]

I do find retirement planning a subject that none of my friends want to discuss or even think about, which is quite terrifying! I have friends with mortgages and no pensions, and others in social housing with neither, many stay at home mothers too who are banking on a shared workplace pension later in life…. The state pension compared to inflation will be a pittance by the time most of us retire, yet I haven’t met a single person in their 30’s who has a plan, and anytime I try to bring it up it’s shot down as a problem for their future selves to worry about. Why save a nest egg when you could have a new car on lease right now instead? Who cares about my income at 70, I need a kitchen island!

Why does no one want to talk about safeguarding their future? Surely this is something that needs to be normalised?

 

[Koalabear]

As someone who plans on buying in the next year on a 10% deposit, it is what it is. Even if I have to go on a standard variable after a couple of years to make even, it’s not fair to expect everyone who wants to get on the ladder to be crippled at my expense.
I’m planning on buying a sensible sized house where I won’t have to move for at least 5 years, and make do

I have bought during the 2018 and as a first time buyer with a tiny deposit my interest rate was just over 11%. It's absolutely crap, but as long as you budget for it to stick for a little while, you'll be fine. When it eventually dropped and went on a much lower variable rate, it was such a relief (and quite a bit of money freed up from the budget which I was used to not having).

 

[Yel]

House prices only down a touch in Dec according to nationwide index, but the trend is one way and December is a slow month.

Annual house price growth continued to slow sharply as 2022 drew to a close

Fourth consecutive monthly decline drives annual house price growth down to 2.8% in December All regions record a slowdown in annual price growth in the final quarter of the year East Anglia the strongest performing region in 2022, while Scotland was weakest Gap between weakest and strongest...

www.nationwidehousepriceindex.co.uk

 

[Folkevermore]

I have bought during the 2018 and as a first time buyer with a tiny deposit my interest rate was just over 11%. It's absolutely crap, but as long as you budget for it to stick for a little while, you'll be fine. When it eventually dropped and went on a much lower variable rate, it was such a relief (and quite a bit of money freed up from the budget which I was used to not having).

Wow that’s high, I’m being quoted 4.9% by my mortgage advisor right now as an estimate, I wonder why yours was so high? Unfortunately I wouldn’t be able to afford an 11% interest rate, a typical small three bed where I live is £300k

 

[Anne1448]

I do find retirement planning a subject that none of my friends want to discuss or even think about, which is quite terrifying! I have friends with mortgages and no pensions, and others in social housing with neither, many stay at home mothers too who are banking on a shared workplace pension later in life…. The state pension compared to inflation will be a pittance by the time most of us retire, yet I haven’t met a single person in their 30’s who has a plan, and anytime I try to bring it up it’s shot down as a problem for their future selves to worry about. Why save a nest egg when you could have a new car on lease right now instead? Who cares about my income at 70, I need a kitchen island!

Why does no one want to talk about safeguarding their future? Surely this is something that needs to be normalised?

I remember bringing up at work the fact that I had a trust fund for my retirement since the age of 18. My colleagues thought that I was crazy for looking after myself.

Sir, who is going to ensure that my future self is well looked after if not my younger self? People are crazy to navigate life without a retirement nest.

 

[HoGi]

I remember bringing up at work the fact that I had a trust fund for my retirement since the age of 18. My colleagues thought that I was crazy for looking after myself.

Sir, who is going to ensure that my future self is well looked after if not my younger self? People are crazy to navigate life without a retirement nest.

Far too many people don't think about retirement until they are in their 50s and then it is far too late