Harry and Meghan #84 Haz should've listened to Auntie Anne, kept his balls to stay a man.

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freda19 said:
Yah, some people need to educate themselves. Truly shocking witnessing the denial that many many nations and races other than blacks were subjected to slavery and other horrors. I'm Irish, we got a bum deal from the English for centuries. I'm over it and I think Brenda is fabulous, so shoot me.

H1Nkris.jpg
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In the 50’s-60’s there was a common sign in shops in the uk too.

No Blacks
No Dogs
No Irish

in that order.
 
peradetlic said:
Bravo!!!!!🥰🤩💕💖

That's also why I flip every time I hear term "feminist", "woman empowering" etc in same sentence with MM. Also why I can't condone Kate role in the family (little woman). Both (K and M) knew what they were doing when they said "Yes". At least K is doing her job without whining and preaching.
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I agree with such a lot that you say, but at risk of straying off topic I am intrigued by your comment that you "can't condone Kate role in the family". I'd like to understand this better, because I have felt that she is fulfilled. I can imagine I would have taken as long to reach my full strengths, based on a thorough appreciation of what public service entails. She has developed real expertise in key areas and is now using that to deliver superior public service, which is the role she chose after fully informing herself what was entailed. What should I be unwilling to condone?
 
JudithKuntz said:
Right. And antisemitism was overt, undisguised & entirely tolerated almost everywhere. Today, Jewish people are the highest achievers in the world which really ought to tell us something.
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It isn't as much of a past thing as you might think... there is more anti-semitism in NYC than anti-black racism. My parents couldn't join a club as recently as 20 years ago because they were Jews... In other words A LOT OF PEOPLE -- the Irish, the Jews, the blacks -- and more -- have been mistreated. You can live your life bemoaning the past or you can live your f*cking life!!!!
 
shragae said:
It isn't as much of a past thing as you might think... there is more anti-semitism in NYC than anti-black racism. My parents couldn't join a club as recently as 20 years ago because they were Jews... In other words A LOT OF PEOPLE -- the Irish, the Jews, the blacks -- and more -- have been mistreated. You can live your life bemoaning the past or you can live your f*cking life!!!!
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Oh, I know. It’s still a very real thing...just ask the Labour party!

When people acknowledge their victimhood but refuse to engage in victim mentatity they can move mountains. Or win 20% of Nobel Prizes. Same thing 😊
 
JudithKuntz said:
Oh, I know. It’s still a very real thing...just ask the Labour party!

When people acknowledge their victimhood but refuse to engage in victim mentatity they can move mountains. Or win 20% of Nobel Prizes. Same thing 😊
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100%!

You don't stop hatred and ignorance by telling people they are horrible. That kinda has the OPPOSITE effect! Live your life, be good to other people, and be like Martin Luther King -- change through peace and protest, not demands and riots...
 
LemonCakes said:
As a fellow Irish person, the myth of Irish slaves has been debunked repeatedly by both Irish and international historians. The situation of indentured servants is not comparable to enslaved Africans. Irish servants had more rights and were treated better (note, I say that with the obvious rolling of my eyes that torturing people is somehow better than just outright beating them to death).

The whole 'Irish slave' imagery has been seized upon by white nationalists in order to try and belittle the enslavement experienced by Africans and other nationalities.


The distinction between voluntary and involuntary indentured servitude is also an important one. It is true that some Europeans, particularly prisoners of war or political prisoners, were sent to places like the Caribbean against their will and without a predetermined period of servitude. Upon arrival, however, those without contracts were, by law, required to serve the master who purchased their labour for a limited number of years, depending on their age. It is also true that many servants did not live to see the end of their period of servitude owing to brutal treatment, climatic conditions and their harsh work regimens, but while under the conditions of servitude they were subject to the same laws that governed European servants, not ‘Negroes’.
....
While planters in Barbados were paranoid about the Irish under their watch, by 1667 nearly 2,000 Irishmen were members of the colony’s militia. Enslaved Africans were also permitted to be in the militia, but only in cases of emergency and they were never permitted to wield firearms. The 1661 slave code ordered overseers to search ‘negro houses’ for ‘clubs, wooden swords’ so that they could be confiscated and burnt. Furthermore, if an Irish servant encountered an African slave in the act of stealing, he could kill the slave and the homicide law would not apply. The killer would be rewarded with a large amount of sugar and the owner of the slave would then be compensated for his loss out of the public purse. Enslaved Africans who assaulted any ‘Christian’, regardless of the white person’s status, were severely punished under assorted methods of torture.
...
One of the worst recorded incidents of servant abuse in Barbados appeared before a court in 1640. John Thomas, likely an Englishman, had been suspended from his wrists by his masters and burning matches had been placed between his fingers. He had ‘lost the use of several joints’. In a rare case of a servant successfully suing for redress, the court freed Thomas from his indenture and ordered his former masters to remain in prison and to pay for his medical treatment, plus compensation amounting to 5,000 pounds of cotton. This case demonstrates that servants had legal redress and that the sufferings of servants were not limited to the Irish; English, Scottish, Welsh, German and French servants also experienced hardship in Barbados.
...
Despite its political and social effects, it has been suggested by some that the ‘white slavery’ narrative is not worth disputing. We argue otherwise. The abuse of history has a spectrum of potential repercussions—from perpetrating general misunderstandings to facilitating a racist agenda—and demands a response. Historical research does not take place in a political or social vacuum and it is incumbent upon researchers to use their privilege with responsibility. As the movement for reparations continues to attract national attention in the United States and the Caribbean, those who proclaim the history of ‘white slavery’ claim a shared heritage of victimisation. By sharing ahistorical ‘white slaves’ memes they aim to vindicate themselves and their ancestors from any involvement in the processes of racial inequality or oppression in the past and in the present.

The experiences of Irish indentured servants before, during and after the Cromwellian era represent a traumatic and haunting period in Irish history. Those who suffered and died as a result of their treatment should be remembered. Nevertheless, their experiences should not be treated as an opportunity for a ‘race to the bottom’ of the ‘most oppressed’. Instead, we need to accept that, as badly as they were treated in the colonial Caribbean, Irish indentured servants were not categorised in the same way as African chattel slaves: they were afforded rights and their period of indenture was not perpetual or hereditary. Accepting this distinction does not make their suffering any less, but it does ensure that the historical record is presented accurately and is not distorted for unsavoury contemporary purposes.


The above quotes are taken from an article by an Irish historian, an American anthropologist and an Irish heritage researcher.
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Your (interesting) passage doesn’t actually debunk anything, though. Feudalism in all it’s forms was enslavement, but some people had it worse than others. It was always thus. Black African slaves had it worst of all because they were literally considered to be animals, as despicable as that is & so were denied even basic human rights.

Freda was simply making the point that human beings have suffered horrifically at the hands of others through the centuries. If we get into x had it worse than y then we’re making value judgements about real suffering & that seems pointless to me.

There are a small group of people with disproportionately loud voices who want to be victims. Some of them are black & want us all to be racist. Some of them are white and want us all to be racist so that they can show off their anti-racism credentials. Some of them are women who want all men to be rapey misogynists and some of them are trans who want to deny biology.

It’s all a load of self-indulgent crap & I think that’s the point Freda was making (although she doesn’t need me to speak for her).
 
Stargazerlily said:
I agree with such a lot that you say, but at risk of straying off topic I am intrigued by your comment that you "can't condone Kate role in the family". I'd like to understand this better, because I have felt that she is fulfilled. I can imagine I would have taken as long to reach my full strengths, based on a thorough appreciation of what public service entails. She has developed real expertise in key areas and is now using that to deliver superior public service, which is the role she chose after fully informing herself what was entailed. What should I be unwilling to condone?
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Not her as person, but role of "little women", "Stepford wife" stereotype. I would strongly advise my daughter against it, after all hard work she put in her education. I think that's the direction of modernisation of RF. Wives, no matter who husband is, should not have fear of "shadowing" husbands. RF should be able to use diplomacy weapon not only in foreign affairs, but also in domestic.

I'm family oriented, but also I have a carrier that I fight hard for (I work in male dominant field and when I started some 30yrs ago I have to fight tooth and nail for it). Too much stereotyping for my taste.

Also I give her kudos for doing the scripted job right. She seems well prepared about subjects she discuss, but I would like her to take more controversial issues (for example secret family court, overzealous and underzealos social services etc) and to shed light on painful subjects (as Camila and Diana). Also I would like to see her more youthfully clothed, but that's me:)
 
LemonCakes said:
As a fellow Irish person, the myth of Irish slaves has been debunked repeatedly by both Irish and international historians. The situation of indentured servants is not comparable to enslaved Africans. Irish servants had more rights and were treated better (note, I say that with the obvious rolling of my eyes that torturing people is somehow better than just outright beating them to death).

The whole 'Irish slave' imagery has been seized upon by white nationalists in order to try and belittle the enslavement experienced by Africans and other nationalities.


The distinction between voluntary and involuntary indentured servitude is also an important one. It is true that some Europeans, particularly prisoners of war or political prisoners, were sent to places like the Caribbean against their will and without a predetermined period of servitude. Upon arrival, however, those without contracts were, by law, required to serve the master who purchased their labour for a limited number of years, depending on their age. It is also true that many servants did not live to see the end of their period of servitude owing to brutal treatment, climatic conditions and their harsh work regimens, but while under the conditions of servitude they were subject to the same laws that governed European servants, not ‘Negroes’.
....
While planters in Barbados were paranoid about the Irish under their watch, by 1667 nearly 2,000 Irishmen were members of the colony’s militia. Enslaved Africans were also permitted to be in the militia, but only in cases of emergency and they were never permitted to wield firearms. The 1661 slave code ordered overseers to search ‘negro houses’ for ‘clubs, wooden swords’ so that they could be confiscated and burnt. Furthermore, if an Irish servant encountered an African slave in the act of stealing, he could kill the slave and the homicide law would not apply. The killer would be rewarded with a large amount of sugar and the owner of the slave would then be compensated for his loss out of the public purse. Enslaved Africans who assaulted any ‘Christian’, regardless of the white person’s status, were severely punished under assorted methods of torture.
...
One of the worst recorded incidents of servant abuse in Barbados appeared before a court in 1640. John Thomas, likely an Englishman, had been suspended from his wrists by his masters and burning matches had been placed between his fingers. He had ‘lost the use of several joints’. In a rare case of a servant successfully suing for redress, the court freed Thomas from his indenture and ordered his former masters to remain in prison and to pay for his medical treatment, plus compensation amounting to 5,000 pounds of cotton. This case demonstrates that servants had legal redress and that the sufferings of servants were not limited to the Irish; English, Scottish, Welsh, German and French servants also experienced hardship in Barbados.
...
Despite its political and social effects, it has been suggested by some that the ‘white slavery’ narrative is not worth disputing. We argue otherwise. The abuse of history has a spectrum of potential repercussions—from perpetrating general misunderstandings to facilitating a racist agenda—and demands a response. Historical research does not take place in a political or social vacuum and it is incumbent upon researchers to use their privilege with responsibility. As the movement for reparations continues to attract national attention in the United States and the Caribbean, those who proclaim the history of ‘white slavery’ claim a shared heritage of victimisation. By sharing ahistorical ‘white slaves’ memes they aim to vindicate themselves and their ancestors from any involvement in the processes of racial inequality or oppression in the past and in the present.

The experiences of Irish indentured servants before, during and after the Cromwellian era represent a traumatic and haunting period in Irish history. Those who suffered and died as a result of their treatment should be remembered. Nevertheless, their experiences should not be treated as an opportunity for a ‘race to the bottom’ of the ‘most oppressed’. Instead, we need to accept that, as badly as they were treated in the colonial Caribbean, Irish indentured servants were not categorised in the same way as African chattel slaves: they were afforded rights and their period of indenture was not perpetual or hereditary. Accepting this distinction does not make their suffering any less, but it does ensure that the historical record is presented accurately and is not distorted for unsavoury contemporary purposes.


The above quotes are taken from an article by an Irish historian, an American anthropologist and an Irish heritage researcher.
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The fact that reparations could be in the form of college paid for by the government wouldn't have anything to do with these college employees wanting to keep the narrative looking a certain way, would it?
 
Family court & social services is political, though...she can’t talk about those things.

Even though she’s not one, she could champion single parents...usually mothers. Society still doesn’t properly recognise what a tremendously difficult thing it is to bring up children alone & there’s still a sneering attitude to them. Like they all dropped their knickers for a council flat, or something. No, most single mums wanted the nuclear family but got dumped.

Sorry...forgot to quote...that was for @peradetlic
 
antisocialmedia said:
He's also from an old aristocratic family, Beatrice is a Contessa now, I believe
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Sort of. The Italian nobility was disestablished in 1946 although they're able to be used as courtesy titles, Edo doesn't use his and he's spent all his life in the UK. His English mother is also pretty well connected though.

I think a lot of people side eyed him because he seemed to look directly at the cameras when they first started dating seeming to like the attention and the possible over lap between his ex girlfriend and Beatrice. He does seem to be getting a little more respect for not running after Andrew + lockdown together.

As for Kate, well it is quite a restricted role in certain ways and she seems to understand that. But you can have a voice and make a difference and I think she's gradually doing that. Children's mental health was quite an undiscussed area a decade ago. I also think she'd be a sporty stay at home mother who did local volunteer work if William was a posh boy banker or whatever.

Even Philip thought it was restricting and in that doc a few years ago all his family were exclaiming "and he gave up his Naval career for her and he could have been an admiral (real one)!" and it was a big deal, so it's not just the women.

Although exactly zero people care what Tim gets up to for the most part unless he cocks it up and then every cares.
 
Bubblesdahling said:
Oh do duck off woko!

Blind Item #6

The alliterate one has spent the past two weeks offering to host fundraisers for politicians in exchange for their public support for her ap...
www.crazydaysandnights.net www.crazydaysandnights.net
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Do we truly think the political rumours are true? Is she actually so self obsessed and reality challenged that she doesn’t realise any political campaign of hers would be the biggest flop in the history of flops?!! I can’t actually fathom that someone, even Smirkle, could be that blind!
 
shragae said:
100%!

You don't stop hatred and ignorance by telling people they are horrible. That kinda has the OPPOSITE effect! Live your life, be good to other people, and be like Martin Luther King -- change through peace and protest, not demands and riots...
Click to expand...
How sensible, I wish the BLM looters and rioters had Martin Luther King's approach. Funny how the BLM bandwagon has moved on, leaving nothing but damage in its wake and having achieved nothing but more racial tension.
Just goes to show that when you boil it all down, all lives matter and the BLM movement was an aggressive load of hot air and a power-grab by troublemakers.
 
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