Crazy Middles and 22 Kids

[LLR]

Honestly I agree that putting children on social media is exploitative but how inactive this thread is shows that they aren't really doing very much that is above the general level of putting kids on YouTube for everyone to see. They always say that they get consent from people to put the videos online for videos such as reuniting with family. I don't think they have bad intentions, both families are obviously passionate about foster care and adoption and you can tell when they speak. I think they are just a little misguided at times.

The idea of showing the children and 'teasing' the audience with shots of them BEFORE they are adopted is weird.

I've always assumed that they did this is make the new children feel more included and part of the family. I think they would probably feel left out if they excluded them from filming.

And they can make videos and memories, why does it need to be publicly posted to youtube? I have videos of my childhood, stored on disk and vhs, there is absolutely no need to have it publicly available. If theyre doing it for other adopted/adoptive parents....why does it have to be monetised if they're just giving advice to other people? Why does it all have to be branded?

Everything today is monetized, you can't get anything for free, everyone charges for things and honestly a monetized YouTube video is probably one of the most easily accessible places to put information. CM have stated they started posting videos on YouTube to be more easily shared with the children's bio families, which is in itself a problem. They've talked about refusing offers of reality TV shows because they thought it would be bad for the children's welfare. They children don't have much individual social media presence, only the teens have accounts and that's just part of being a normal teen.

Also, children cannot consent to having their image and story out there. So even if they are happy now, to tell all these deeply personal stories for millions to watch and judge, they physically and mentally cannot grasp the long term implications of this. University? Jobs? Future relationships?

CM have said the kids only share their stories if they want to and I've always felt a lot of the adoption stories feel quite bare-bones and PG with the exceptions of Melinda and Jamie's which both include sexual abuse and even then they do not go into much detail. Mostly the reason they post they seems to be along the lines of "we want other kids in foster care to know it gets better".

They started posting in 2015 which was a time when there were a lot of family vloggers most of whom are doing a lot more questionable things and before I think a lot of people were aware of how it could negatively impact the kids.

Honestly my main problems with CM/CP and why I'm on this thread in the first place are:

1. The ridiculous house CP bought which has walk in closets bigger than a lot of UK single bedrooms. Like more than twice as big as a few of my friends bedrooms growing up. Although I guess they wanted most of the kids to have their own rooms.

2. Lacey going from wanting to travel and do stuff to giving up on everything to have a baby.

3. The ridiculous rule book that the CM have and their nonsensical chore system.

4. The blatant favouritism that CM show to some of their kids to the point you could probably write an ordered list of how much they like their kids.

5. CM having cameras in their children's bedrooms in St. Johns (I know they want cameras on every exit and entrance but it's still weird)

6. Both CM/CP sharing their town and their kids school when living in St. Johns putting their kids safety at risk

7. CM/CP both showing their full front of their house making them easy to find again putting their kids at risk.

8. The awkward relationship the CM have with Nicole and everyone apparently telling them that she was trying to take advantage of them

+ Probably more I'm forgetting.

 

[lokencrepis]

Honestly I agree that putting children on social media is exploitative but how inactive this thread is shows that they aren't really doing very much that is above the general level of putting kids on YouTube for everyone to see. They always say that they get consent from people to put the videos online for videos such as reuniting with family. I don't think they have bad intentions, both families are obviously passionate about foster care and adoption and you can tell when they speak. I think they are just a little misguided at times.

We're definitely on the same side here. I think the main difference, I stopped watching them bar the very occasional video. I don't have anything to say day to day because I'm simply not really watching anymore. Absolutely, if those family members are adults I have zero problem, it's the children. They're sharing incredibly personal things, they cant possibly know at age 14 whether or not they'll think the same about sharing at 18. They should have that time to privately deal with whatever they went through, you can see this in Savannah and Luke's video. Luke is remembering different things to Savannah, and vice versa. They really needed to go to therapy and talk things through just them and their parents before having that all online. How do we know they won't ever want people knowing? Thats my main gripe with the consent.

I've always assumed that they did this is make the new children feel more included and part of the family. I think they would probably feel left out if they excluded them from filming.

Completely understand this, Im sure thats how the kids do feel. But its the parents job to keep them safe, and if they have a parent or adult who is trying to find them.... lets not leave breadcrumbs for them to find.

Everything today is monetized, you can't get anything for free, everyone charges for things and honestly a monetized YouTube video is probably one of the most easily accessible places to put information. CM have stated they started posting videos on YouTube to be more easily shared with the children's bio families, which is in itself a problem.

My childhood isn't monetised. My filmed memories aren't either. Advice in facebook groups for adoptees and adopters, is not monetised. Having a youtube monetised does not hurt its chances in the algorithm. Youtube is a great place for learning, but you don't have to accept sponsorships or sell merch... which is another thing, if theyre innocent of exploiting specifically for money, why do they sell merch? There are youtube channels that focus on adoption in their families, without sharing the kids personal info for monetary gain.
Thats weird.. from the beginning CM have known it would ultimately get to the bio families, and didn't think it was a problem? I don't know how many of their adoptions are closed, but its a serious danger for some adoptees to have their location known by their bio families, as you know from your comment.

CM have said the kids only share their stories if they want to and I've always felt a lot of the adoption stories feel quite bare-bones and PG with the exceptions of Melinda and Jamie's which both include sexual abuse and even then they do not go into much detail. Mostly the reason they post they seems to be along the lines of "we want other kids in foster care to know it gets better".

I can only imagine the positive impact that some of the audience will have, knowing that they are not alone. It will be immense, but those kids are just too young though, they can avidly tell their stories, with all the good intentions in the world, but they don't know the impact of everyone knowing the particulars of their own stories. It could be fine! But it might not be, and they can't make that decision yet. But.... we know there was sexual abuse. We shouldn't. Jamie may not have the capacity to consent, I don't know, but it shouldn't be shared the way it has. We know way too much about these kids.

Honestly my main problems with CM/CP and why I'm on this thread in the first place are:

1. The ridiculous house CP bought which has walk in closets bigger than a lot of UK single bedrooms. Like more than twice as big as a few of my friends bedrooms growing up. Although I guess they wanted most of the kids to have their own rooms.

2. Lacey going from wanting to travel and do stuff to giving up on everything to have a baby.

3. The ridiculous rule book that the CM have and their nonsensical chore system.

4. The blatant favouritism that CM show to some of their kids to the point you could probably write an ordered list of how much they like their kids.

5. CM having cameras in their children's bedrooms in St. Johns (I know they want cameras on every exit and entrance but it's still weird)

6. Both CM/CP sharing their town and their kids school when living in St. Johns putting their kids safety at risk

7. CM/CP both showing their full front of their house making them easy to find again putting their kids at risk.

8. The awkward relationship the CM have with Nicole and everyone apparently telling them that she was trying to take advantage of them

+ Probably more I'm forgetting.

Could not agree more, those bedrooms are slightly obscene. I am not sure if all American bedrooms are like that... but if not they are going to have the biggest culture shock when they go out on their own.
I am so upset for Lacey. She had so many plans, she'd branched out and then just had a baby. Not to say she can't do anything now... but we know she won't. She'll family vlog and that'll be it.
That rule book blew my mind. The lack of trust they have in their kids just makes me feel ill, if theyre willing to show that online.. what are they not showing??
Its intense, and so blatant. I can't imagine being a little kid in that house and having to battle for attention against Lacey originally and now Aubrey.
The cameras just make me think of the Saccone-Jolys, and I hate the cameras, and the people who think they have to spy on their entire family.
They have zero idea about safety, the fact they share everything about their whereabouts, it just scares me for what could happen.
Yep. Moving, and then doing it again?! And showing the houses they 'might' buy. Just to show a triangluation of where they spend most of their time.
The whole situation with Nicole is suss from both sides. From the beginning too, I almost don't believe they couldnt take her in as well as Jacob. I think she was deemed 'too difficult' just like Johnathan.

It's a heck of a long message, but I wanted to address everything. None of this is meant with bad feelings, and I think we agree on most. I think the main thing is how they actually are behind closed doors, it could be anything given we only see what they want us to see after all.

 

[LLR]

It's a heck of a long message, but I wanted to address everything. None of this is meant with bad feelings, and I think we agree on most.

We definitely are in agreement on most things.

I wanted to add a few things that I thought of whilst reading your comment.

I think Savannah and Luke should have waited to tell their story until they were both comfortable. Luke is older and I'm sure Savannah was protected in some ways by her older brothers from the reality of their situation which is probably why Luke seems more affected. I think a lot of people were asking for their background and Savannah seems like a bit of a people pleaser. I do think kids seeing other children of similar ages being adopted is helpful for them and Savannah has said that she had watched the CP channel before being adopted so maybe that's why she was more eager than Luke to share.

With Jamie what was specifically said was that Aurora's dad was not listed on her birth certificate and if paternity was established then Aurora's father would be in prison, which makes me uncomfortable for Aurora when she grows up. Nothing else is said regarding this man but everyone who has watched that video will know that Aurora is the product of abuse.

I don't think any of the children have any relatives that are an immediate danger to them and I think most have biological relatives who know where they are. I believe that Lacey said that her father is currently in prison for murder though so they do obviously have some dangerous relatives out there. I don't think social services would have placed anyone who needed anonymity with them though. A lot of the kids seem to have family members who still wanted contact but were unable to look after them full time (aunts, grandparents).

A lot of YouTube kids you can see are struggling or being overly sexualized but both the CM/CP kids seem to be doing good overall and have plans for their future (even if Alex and Lacey are trying to make it as YouTubers) - although we'll have to see if they follow through. They have kids who disappear from videos for a while because they are off being engaged in their lives outside YouTube whilst most of the other kids on the platform live inside a bubble where they have to make content.

Honestly both the channels are messy and nobody know what they should be sharing or not as long as they both still seem like wholesome Mormon families (but obviously not too Mormon as it might alienate people).

Tithing is mandatory for Mormons which means 10% of everything they make goes to the church including all the YouTube money.

 

[lokencrepis]

We definitely are in agreement on most things.

I wanted to add a few things that I thought of whilst reading your comment.

I think Savannah and Luke should have waited to tell their story until they were both comfortable. Luke is older and I'm sure Savannah was protected in some ways by her older brothers from the reality of their situation which is probably why Luke seems more affected. I think a lot of people were asking for their background and Savannah seems like a bit of a people pleaser. I do think kids seeing other children of similar ages being adopted is helpful for them and Savannah has said that she had watched the CP channel before being adopted so maybe that's why she was more eager than Luke to share.

With Jamie what was specifically said was that Aurora's dad was not listed on her birth certificate and if paternity was established then Aurora's father would be in prison, which makes me uncomfortable for Aurora when she grows up. Nothing else is said regarding this man but everyone who has watched that video will know that Aurora is the product of abuse.

I don't think any of the children have any relatives that are an immediate danger to them and I think most have biological relatives who know where they are. I believe that Lacey said that her father is currently in prison for murder though so they do obviously have some dangerous relatives out there. I don't think social services would have placed anyone who needed anonymity with them though. A lot of the kids seem to have family members who still wanted contact but were unable to look after them full time (aunts, grandparents).

A lot of YouTube kids you can see are struggling or being overly sexualized but both the CM/CP kids seem to be doing good overall and have plans for their future (even if Alex and Lacey are trying to make it as YouTubers) - although we'll have to see if they follow through. They have kids who disappear from videos for a while because they are off being engaged in their lives outside YouTube whilst most of the other kids on the platform live inside a bubble where they have to make content.

Honestly both the channels are messy and nobody know what they should be sharing or not as long as they both still seem like wholesome Mormon families (but obviously not too Mormon as it might alienate people).

Tithing is mandatory for Mormons which means 10% of everything they make goes to the church including all the YouTube money.

Bless her, it was obvious she was looked after by her brothers, no doubt there is plenty she doesn't have a clue about. She was only 13(?!) when she was adopted, thats way before you're aware of adult goings on.

I really feel for Auroras future, and I really really hope that the 'father' cannot/has no way of access in the future. Aurora can't even begin to say its okay to have her story out there, and who knows how much her medical issues will affect her ability to consent in the future.

Yes, I never quite cottoned on to why Lacey's dad was in prison, thats heavy!! I hope that social services has the brains to not put properly serious cases with them. Those cases need so much extra attention and help, I can't imagine being in such a big family would help that? Nevermind the online stuff, they would need one on one care. This is all speculation, I am never a parent nor an expert in social services. We can hope though!

Oh 100%, some of the stuff that these 'family' youtubers put out... it just blows me away. Kids deserve to just be kids, theres no need to pretend to be adults it just invited unwelcome attention (online and offline). The one thing with this, is how much make up Hannah wears. I seriously thought she was at least 17 when I started watching about 2 years ago. Finding out that she was 14??! I understand self conciousness and all that, we all deal with variations and different amounts, but I just feel sorry for her. There is no way a 13-14 year old should've been wearing a full face of make up. Clothes wise and attitude wise, they're all kids and its lovely to see that they're able to enjoy their childhood now.

Theyre proper messy, it seems to be - focus on adoption, do pranks, vlogs and whatever else sticks and gets views. I had no clue that they were mormon until about 6 months of watching. Maybe I joined at a time they weren't discussing it, but they definitely keep it under wraps. Which I get, mormons aren't well known for their inclusiveness, it would alienate a chunk of their audience. Their religion does throw up some interesting things. THE TITHING! I hate the idea of any of my social media currency is going to the mormon church!! Of course mormons believe that your family becomes your eternal family when you all die. AS LONG as you're all practising mormons. From what I can tell, it appears to be a vague competition as to how big your eternal family on your own special celestial planet will be. Just a thought, but maybe that comes into their choice to adopt so many children? Shows they are properly good mormons??

I also wonder how active they are as mormons. CM force their kids to go to church, not necessarily believe, but I don't know about the CPs?

 

[LLR]

I also wonder how active they are as mormons. CM force their kids to go to church, not necessarily believe, but I don't know about the CPs?

Both families have said that they do not film on Sundays because those are for church. I'm not sure if I remember much talk of it recently, they talked about it more when they lived in St. Johns.

Slightly off topic but I've always wondered if the Mormon church encourages family vlogging as a either a way for families to have more income to give to the church or so the Mormons are watching other Mormons be Mormon or so families and young children who are watching Mormons may be encouraged to convert. There are so many Mormon vlogging families (8 Passengers, Not Enough Nelsons, J House Vlogs, Bucket List Family, Crosby Family, Yawi Vlogs, April & Davey, Mindy McKnight of Cute Girls Haristyles and her kids (Brooklyn & Bailey etc.)). It's weird how many Mormon families seem to be family vloggers who get you watching and occasionally share their faith. Sure you get the generically Christian family vloggers and the ones who don't go to church but I don't really come across any other faiths that often when just randomly watching videos.

 

[lokencrepis]

Both families have said that they do not film on Sundays because those are for church. I'm not sure if I remember much talk of it recently, they talked about it more when they lived in St. Johns.

Slightly off topic but I've always wondered if the Mormon church encourages family vlogging as a either a way for families to have more income to give to the church or so the Mormons are watching other Mormons be Mormon or so families and young children who are watching Mormons may be encouraged to convert. There are so many Mormon vlogging families (8 Passengers, Not Enough Nelsons, J House Vlogs, Bucket List Family, Crosby Family, Yawi Vlogs, April & Davey, Mindy McKnight of Cute Girls Haristyles and her kids (Brooklyn & Bailey etc.)). It's weird how many Mormon families seem to be family vloggers who get you watching and occasionally share their faith. Sure you get the generically Christian family vloggers and the ones who don't go to church but I don't really come across any other faiths that often when just randomly watching videos.

Yessssssss!! I have been wondering this for YEARS. Five two love, Knorpp and South, The Piano Guys too! Its ridiculous, there's so many of them, too many for it to be coincidence in my mind! There isn't enough mormons.... for it to just be natural. I think it has to be some kind of advertising drive from the mormon church. Maybe they get paid by the church, as it's technically an advertising job? Plenty of families online are christian, but the saturation of mormons online is too much for it to have just 'happened'. I know from watching Jordan and Mckay, that the missionaries are very much using social media to attract people to the religion, it's not beyond to think they're engineering entire channels.

It could always have just been a suggestion of how to evangelise for the church? At their conference thing, perhaps someone showed how well some of the really big Youtubers are doing, and other families got ideas?

I just did a quick search on mormon Youtubers.... THE SHAYTARDS. I had no idea they were mormon??? I knew they were christian and fairly religious from the whole cheating and alcoholism... but its alcohol! Wouldn't have even guessed they were mormon, mainly due to that!

The Jewish Youtubers are really coming up at the moment, I've been recommended several orthodox Jews recently. Very very interesting, as I only knew a tiny amount about judaism. But they're all really upfront with their religion, theres no smoke and mirrors like with the mormons. But then again, its quite hard to hide your jewishness if youre wearing a hair covering...

 

[LLR]

Plenty of families online are christian, but the saturation of mormons online is too much for it to have just 'happened'. I know from watching Jordan and Mckay, that the missionaries are very much using social media to attract people to the religion, it's not beyond to think they're engineering entire channels.

Given that JustJordan33's channel is just her parents giving updates at the moment they must have permission from the church to do that (and I assume to show the pictures of the other missionaries she is serving with).

If the church are encouraging it then people are far less likely to question the damage it is going to do to their kids. People go to their priests and church elders for advice, because they believe they are godly and know what is right.

A lot of the Mormon parents seem quite naive, including Crystal from CP - the other CM/CP parents seem slightly more grounded although I think they are all very much drinking the koolaid as it were when it comes to their church. The financials of the LDS church seem very dodgy if you've ever seen stuff about that, beneath all the religion it is definitely a money making venture for those at the top.

I've watched a couple of Jewish channels and they seem much less kid focused. There's a difference between having a family YouTube channel where the kids are the main focus and just being a YouTuber with kids who occasionally appear because they are there but are not the main draw of the channel and obviously when you have kids and start a channel you have to decide which way you are going to lean.

 

[JDseasonings4life]

OMG Savannah's face from 23:10 in on the latest CP video

 

[LLR]

OMG Savannah's face from 23:10 in on the latest CP video

I'm not exactly sure what you're on about, to me she just looks like she doesn't want to just watch Ariana open her presents and overreact to the camera. I'm not sure if she even knew she was in camera frame. Ariana comes across the least friendly of the girls but she was the first kid adopted so I guess she didn't sign up for all the kids that came after her. For the most part
Savannah seemed to be living her best life in that video though and we have to remember even though she does look older she is still a middle schooler. Be kind.

 

[JDseasonings4life]

I'm not exactly sure what you're on about, to me she just looks like she doesn't want to just watch Ariana open her presents and overreact to the camera. I'm not sure if she even knew she was in camera frame. Ariana comes across the least friendly of the girls but she was the first kid adopted so I guess she didn't sign up for all the kids that came after her. For the most part
Savannah seemed to be living her best life in that video though and we have to remember even though she does look older she is still a middle schooler. Be kind.

Good point but the face drop as she walks away shows how much they feel the need to act up for the camera. It's sad really.

 

[LLR]

Good point but the face drop as she walks away shows how much they feel the need to act up for the camera. It's sad really.

I pretended to be happy and interested whilst watching other people open their presents as a kid when I was feeling kinda jealous but tried to pretend when people looked in my direction. I'm not saying the kids don't play up for the camera but I didn't take it that way in this instance.

 

[Crl8]

Alex and Savannah got a pug puppy. I don’t know if it’s different in the US but 6 weeks old is to young for that puppy to be away from its mother they said in the video the person works at a rescue and the puppy was being rehomed. It just doesn’t sit right with me that someone who works in a rescue centre for pugs would willing give a puppy that young to someone with no background checks. Then taking it to the CP house the same night poor little thing was terrified. She’s not even 6 weeks yet so she would be to young to even get her first vaccine here in the uk.

 

[Prettyinpink25]

Alex and Savannah got a pug puppy. I don’t know if it’s different in the US but 6 weeks old is to young for that puppy to be away from its mother they said in the video the person works at a rescue and the puppy was being rehomed. It just doesn’t sit right with me that someone who works in a rescue centre for pugs would willing give a puppy that young to someone with no background checks. Then taking it to the CP house the same night poor little thing was terrified. She’s not even 6 weeks yet so she would be to young to even get her first vaccine here in the uk.

from googling it apparently puppies in the US can leave their mothers and be vaccinated from 6 weeks.

To be fair we can (UK) vaccinate from 7weeks it just pushes their 2nd vacc later as you can’t 2nd vaccinate until 10weeks at the earliest. Also it’s quite safe as long as the pup has had 1 vaccine for it to socialise with fully vaccinated dogs in someone’s home.

 

[Monkey1651]

from googling it apparently puppies in the US can leave their mothers and be vaccinated from 6 weeks.

To be fair we can (UK) vaccinate from 7weeks it just pushes their 2nd vacc later as you can’t 2nd vaccinate until 10weeks at the earliest. Also it’s quite safe as long as the pup has had 1 vaccine for it to socialise with fully vaccinated dogs in someone’s home.

6 weeks is way too young. If they don’t have another dog, this puppy will never know how to socialize properly. Those 2 weeks from 6-8 weeks, are important. Some dogs shouldn’t leave their moms until 10-12 weeks. A responsible, ethical breeder would never allow a puppy to go to a new home before 8 weeks

 

[Crl8]

from googling it apparently puppies in the US can leave their mothers and be vaccinated from 6 weeks.

To be fair we can (UK) vaccinate from 7weeks it just pushes their 2nd vacc later as you can’t 2nd vaccinate until 10weeks at the earliest. Also it’s quite safe as long as the pup has had 1 vaccine for it to socialise with fully vaccinated dogs in someone’s home.

The puppy wasn’t even 6 weeks when they got her

 

[JDseasonings4life]

The puppy wasn’t even 6 weeks when they got her

That's so irresponsible.

 

[Prettyinpink25]

The puppy wasn’t even 6 weeks when they got her

I haven’t watched the video to be honest I was just responding to whoever’s comment I quoted but if they did that’s really irresponsible of the rescue I don’t suspect Alex and Savannah know better (not an excuse but the majority of the blame lands on the rescue)

 

[JDseasonings4life]

I haven’t watched the video to be honest I was just responding to whoever’s comment I quoted but if they did that’s really irresponsible of the rescue I don’t suspect Alex and Savannah know better (not an excuse but the majority of the blame lands on the rescue)

How young is the new puppy in the CP house? I hope it isn't as little as Alex's pup.

 

[Louisej3]

Alex and Savannah got a pug puppy. I don’t know if it’s different in the US but 6 weeks old is to young for that puppy to be away from its mother they said in the video the person works at a rescue and the puppy was being rehomed. It just doesn’t sit right with me that someone who works in a rescue centre for pugs would willing give a puppy that young to someone with no background checks. Then taking it to the CP house the same night poor little thing was terrified. She’s not even 6 weeks yet so she would be to young to even get her first vaccine here in the uk.

I hope they are aware of the medical issues with having a pug

 

[Louisej3]

I get gay vibes from eli