Caitlin Moran #2 She’s just insulting everyone’s intelligence now

[Spurgyrose]

This discussion was never about shoehorning in a black character for the sake of it, jeez. It’s about listening, to views and concerns and conversations outside of your own experience. Ironically.

Yes thank you that was my point if it wasn’t clear. Lack of diversity is an issue, perpetuating it by not listening to other voices is just as bad. The fact that we think POC have to be/or are shoehorned into a show set in an extremely diverse city is just evidence of these issues.

 

[HotesTilaire]

Yes thank you that was my point if it wasn’t clear. Lack of diversity is an issue, perpetuating it by not listening to other voices is just as bad. The fact that we think POC have to be/or are shoehorned into a show set in an extremely diverse city is just evidence of these issues.

And as I say I don’t think she’s changed much. So to bring this all the way back around - that’s why people are carrying out a diversity assessment of her Bluesky followers, because she was and is tone deaf and probably always will be.
This is exacerbated by her being something of an idiot without much curiosity for knowledge. IDK maybe she will catch up here and write something about a girl growing up in a large family on a midlands estate who is homeschooled but has one black friend IDK.

 

[FrannyGallops]

North American, Canadian with dual citizenship. I have lived in the U.S. now for a while.

Ok, fair enough. I do think the issues are different between the US and the UK, but I take the point that Moran should have shut up and listened to other POV.

The fact that we think POC have to be/or are shoehorned into a show set in an extremely diverse city is just evidence of these issues

I don’t think anybody on this thread thinks that, but this is what happens for a variety of reasons. As someone pointed out, Lena Dunham was writing from her experience and maybe she didn’t feel confident writing a POC character. However, I don’t think this is the thread to get into all that.

 

[IOrderedASandwich]

Caitlin Moran and Eve Barlow Are Giving Girls a Bad Name

Lena Dunham's probably not racist, but that doesn't mean racism doesn't exist.

www.vice.com

interesting too because Caitlin lives in a particularly diverse area of London which itself it very diverse anyway, and a year earlier there was literal rioting on her doorstep due to tensions between POC and the police.

I thought she lived in Brighton?
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I just hope she never tries to address “race” the same as she has with “men” coz apparently *she* has to sort things out. By writing a book which people buy.

Oh no, that's Baddiel's job. A man who took the piss out of a young Black player's hairstyle on TV for years, doing blackface impressions of him with a pineapple on his head, and then wrote a book about how he's the real victim of racism, acks.

 

[Veronicaaa]

However, I don’t think this is the thread to get into all that.

Oh I dunno, I think it speaks a lot to Moran's cultural relevance that we're still talking about the nonsense she was talking a decade ago. Not that it's got any better.

 

[HotesTilaire]

I thought she lived in Brighton?
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Oh no, that's Baddiel's job. A man who took the piss out of a young Black player's hairstyle on TV for years, doing blackface impressions of him with a pineapple on his head, and then wrote a book about how he's the real victim of racism, acks.

No that’s her girl Sali.
Jewish people can be racist against other races.

 

[griftalo]

I thought she lived in Brighton?
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Oh no, that's Baddiel's job. A man who took the piss out of a young Black player's hairstyle on TV for years, doing blackface impressions of him with a pineapple on his head, and then wrote a book about how he's the real victim of racism, acks.

Baddiel is a problematic man.

 

[SamFoxStuckinaCloak]

There’s a good documentary on iplayer about loaded magazine which baddiel is in, and it really feels like he’s trying to revise history. “Oh no, I was deeply uncomfortable with all of this joking about women.” Bullshit were you.

 

[CocoCottesmore]

There’s a good documentary on iplayer about loaded magazine which baddiel is in, and it really feels like he’s trying to revise history. “Oh no, I was deeply uncomfortable with all of this joking about women.” Bullshit were you.

I was watching this on bbc2 on Friday night and literally.screamed at the tv when he said that. Total rewriting of history.

 

[bracrumbs]

I really like Frank Skinner, I think he’s owned up to a lot of the 90s stuff and is reflective about his behaviour.

his continued association with Baddiel means I have to give him some serious side eye tho.

 

[Jelly Bean]

There’s a good documentary on iplayer about loaded magazine which baddiel is in, and it really feels like he’s trying to revise history. “Oh no, I was deeply uncomfortable with all of this joking about women.” Bullshit were you.

He's good at revising history. I think it was on Desert Island Discs he was asked about a Lad's Mag cover (possibly Loaded) where he and Frank were leering at a woman in a skimpy football shirt and quick as a flash he said 'that was Frank's idea'.
Like the 'blackface' dressing up it was always someone else who made poor David do these things he didn't want to

 

[Flibbertigibbet]

He's good at revising history. I think it was on Desert Island Discs he was asked about a Lad's Mag cover (possibly Loaded) where he and Frank were leering at a woman in a skimpy football shirt and quick as a flash he said 'that was Frank's idea'.
Like the 'blackface' dressing up it was always someone else who made poor David do these things he didn't want to

He's flummoxed because he's like Billy Bragg; he started his career from the left-wing, when that was edgy and alternative and trendy and so insufferably pious, and now he is shocked to find that women and ethnic minorites are criticising some of his jokes and attitudes.

I watched his documentary on antisemitism, Jews Don't Count, and he still doesn't get it. He has a very good point about how antisemitism is not always condemned by those who say they are anti-racist. But then he airily claimed that Israel has nothing to do with him, and Miriam Margolyes put him in his place. He doesn't seem to understand that two things can be true at the same time, that Israel's conduct toward Palestinians is appalling, and that some people use this as a weapon against ordinary Jews in Europe, which is also appalling. But he would always rather preach than listen and think.

 

[Veronicaaa]

But he would always rather preach than listen and think.

This is the thing which annoys me. He seems to think he's some sort of intellectual heavyweight when nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Jelly Bean]

This is the thing which annoys me. He seems to think he's some sort of intellectual heavyweight when nothing could be further from the truth.

View attachment 3287559 q

In almost everything he writes or talks about he says things are 'complex'. I guess to make his ideas appear very deep and knotty. Once you spot his constant use of that word you can't unsee it.

 

[IOrderedASandwich]

I really like Frank Skinner, I think he’s owned up to a lot of the 90s stuff and is reflective about his behaviour.

his continued association with Baddiel means I have to give him some serious side eye tho.

Skinner is a really smart guy, and as you say, very reflective on who he was and who he is.

He's basically as smart as Baddiel think himself to be.
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He's flummoxed because he's like Billy Bragg; he started his career from the left-wing, when that was edgy and alternative and trendy and so insufferably pious, and now he is shocked to find that women and ethnic minorites are criticising some of his jokes and attitudes.

What did I miss with Billy Bragg? The only controversial thing I've seen with him is that he's pro-trans rights, which is a fairly mainstream left-wing position.

 

[HotesTilaire]

Dave never married his teenage student though.

 

[Flibbertigibbet]

What did I miss with Billy Bragg? The only controversial thing I've seen with him is that he's pro-trans rights, which is a fairly mainstream left-wing position.

He's not just pro-trans, he's anti-women in the way he will not entertain a single serious concern about women's single-sex spaces and provisions because any woman who dares to question his position is a fascist Nazi witch.

He is, ironically, very binary in the way he has to process everything through his good vs evil ideological machine, and if you're not "on the right side of history" you're obviously Hitler. He tried to link the issue to the Holocaust in a grotesque tweet of hyperbole about the Stolpensteine (cobblestones that commemorate Jews who were taken away by the Nazis) - basically saying women who want sex-based as opposed to gender-based rights are heading toward a repeat of that atrocity.

Anyhoo, sorry to derail.

 

[HotesTilaire]

He's not just pro-trans, he's anti-women in the way he will not entertain a single serious concern about women's single-sex spaces and provisions because any woman who dares to question his position is a fascist Nazi witch.

He is, ironically, very binary in the way he has to process everything through his good vs evil ideological machine, and if you're not "on the right side of history" you're obviously Hitler. He tried to link the issue to the Holocaust in a grotesque tweet of hyperbole about the Stolpensteine (cobblestones that commemorate Jews who were taken away by the Nazis) - basically saying women who want sex-based as opposed to gender-based rights are heading toward a repeat of that atrocity.

Anyhoo, sorry to derail.

I thought everyone hated him coz he lives in a mansion by the coast and he won’t let people walk across his land or something.

 

[IOrderedASandwich]

I guess it depends whether those speaking to him about it are doing so reasonably or doing it Graham Linehan style and calling everyone groomers, though. I think you can be pro-trans without being anti-women, and it irks me (especially as a woman) when people think that they are two opposite sides and only one of those is what "actual women" think and feel. Social media tends to reduce complex issues to entrenched binaries, ones that reduce us in turn to tribalism, and it serves nobody.

I thought from what you were saying though that he was being racist or making comments on the Gaza issue that weren't being well-recieved.

But anyway, back to ! She's hosting some "Evening with David Baddiel" which sounds like the kind of intellectual heavyweight event that will solve all our problems in one go.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Dave never married his teenage student though.

Yes Frank has worked very hard at his reinvention too - intellectual bookworm and religious.
I think they're trying to forget their mutual interest in pornography, an*l and m*sturb*ting. Which they both used to discuss at length.