Boris Johnson #2

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Flowergirl14 said:
I have no wish to get into an argument.

But Labour only appear to be really concerned about taking the knee, etc. Google the photos.
Northern Labour are not concerned about this.
Modern Labour is interested in woke, minorories, climate change.
All important issues, but not to Mr & Mrs Wakefield on a day to day basis.
They want a home, job, car, etc.
They want a party that will provide aspiration, and that is not the current Labour Party.

I am not a Conservative voter either.
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I think what the other poster is saying though is that Labour under Starmer aren’t ‘super woke’. There are definitely MPs in that faction, but him, himself, is very much a fence sitter, so it’s like what is it the Red Wall want from a PM? He can’t exactly ignore those issues but he also isn’t appealing to the left very much either so Labour has a lot of work to do.

I do wonder what Labour would have looked like had David Milliband rather than Ed took the leadership.
 
Lilliepad said:
I think what the other poster is saying though is that Labour under Starmer aren’t ‘super woke’. There are definitely MPs in that faction, but him, himself, is very much a fence sitter, so it’s like what is it the Red Wall want from a PM? He can’t exactly ignore those issues but he also isn’t appealing to the left very much either so Labour has a lot of work to do.

I do wonder what Labour would have looked like had David Milliband rather than Ed took the leadership.
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Very much agree with you.
 
Lilliepad said:
I think what the other poster is saying though is that Labour under Starmer aren’t ‘super woke’. There are definitely MPs in that faction, but him, himself, is very much a fence sitter, so it’s like what is it the Red Wall want from a PM? He can’t exactly ignore those issues but he also isn’t appealing to the left very much either so Labour has a lot of work to do.

I do wonder what Labour would have looked like had David Milliband rather than Ed took the leadership.
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FWIW I dont think the MP's are the problem. The problem comes from Labour supporters. Admittedly a small group of mainly young University educated London based activists who sneer at people from the North on social media and on the tv. In the past few days, I've heard the reasons people voted Tory as being ' because there are no young people there' 'because they have the fewest graduates' ' because they are turkeys' 'because they are racist morons'. The Tories may hate them, but they never pretended otherwise. Labour was formed to support them and has turned their back on them. Labour MP's have also been massively complacent about their vote. Also, Labour replaced an MP who had to resign because of sexual harassment allegations with someone who had to apologise for making derogatory comments about women. How stupid are they?
 
It's complex, there is no doubt about it. Watching people vote against their own interests is heartbreaking. But as someone who studied in the north east, I am not going to apologise for saying that yes, they are insular people. This is a very racist country. Am I glad the racists have shown their true colours and voted Tory? That's a tough one. In a way, I feel like Labour should have made a convincing argument to bring them round. On the other hand, I don't want to be a member of a party that kow tows to UKIP voters out of desperation.

There is no doubt that Labour have taken their heartlands for granted for far too long. But that goes back to Blair. Putting someone like Mandelson in Hartlepool was an absolute insult. They've learned nothing. They had no shortlist this time and parachuted in another white middle class man who was a remainer. They can't even get the basics right.

For the first time in my life I didn't vote and I am a life long Labour voter (even during Iraq when it was a real moral dilemma for me). I have no idea where the party goes from here. I have my own personal opinions but as the mention of Jeremy Corbyn makes people see red, I will keep them to myself!
 
My son is off to university this year ( well depending on the A-level tit show ), I am very interested to know what political leanings he will return home with. I am middle of the road, his Dad is Lib-Dem. We shall see. He is his own man.
 
Flowergirl14 said:
My son is off to university this year ( well depending on the A-level tit show ), I am very interested to know what political leanings he will return home with. I am middle of the road, his Dad is Lib-Dem. We shall see. He is his own man.
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My kids are 9 and 13. They declared that they are going to vote Green. To be fair, my eldest did do some research beforehand and came to the same conclusion!
 
Lilliepad said:
I think what the other poster is saying though is that Labour under Starmer aren’t ‘super woke’. There are definitely MPs in that faction, but him, himself, is very much a fence sitter, so it’s like what is it the Red Wall want from a PM? He can’t exactly ignore those issues but he also isn’t appealing to the left very much either so Labour has a lot of work to do.

I do wonder what Labour would have looked like had David Milliband rather than Ed took the leadership.
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Fence sitters never do well. People don't know how to respond to them because they don't know what they stand for.

As a leader you need to have a clear message. I don't dislike Starmer but he's probably a better minister or civil servant than the leader of the opposition.

I can imagine someone like Andy Burnham having a right old ding dong with Boris at PMQ's. Starmer still behaves like he's at court.
 
If the Left formed some sort of alliance, they would probably get more votes than the Tories and at least be in with a fighting chance. They all say they want PR ( not sure about Labour) and the result of PR is that they will be forced to form alliances with other parties in order to form governments. So why not do it now? It didn't really bode well for the Lib Dems who have always been advocates of PR when they cant even form alliances with other similar parties yet want to be able to do it in Parliament. (I realise Jo Swinson was a humungous disappointment and their top team was filled with useless idiots may be the reason) If the basis of your policy is to enact a constitutuional change that will result in you being in constant coalitions, then you have to hold your nose and do it. It doesnt really bode well if all you demonstrate is that a change to PR will result in parties not being able to form any sort of coalition and the country being left without a government for months while you fight it out amongst yourselves. I suspect the sticking point is Labour as they can't even form a coalition with people in their own party, but still, surely its do or die now. I would love us to have a complete reform of the electoral system- PR, dump the House of Lords, boundary changes, everything. But I was writing dissertations about Constitutional reform in the early 90's at University, and I was not some political guru with brand new ideas, they were bread and butter ideas that were taken from people who had been talking about Constitutional reform for years before. Its now 30 years later and all that has happened is nothing.
 
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I hold my hands up and admit I'm firmly to the left of 99% of the UK population so for me, Andy Burnham isn't an exciting prospect. I do however think that he would do a far better job than Keir Starmer (who I also believe to be more suited to being a competent civil servant). You have to pick your battles, I am no Blairite but I concede that even a centrist Labour government would be a million times better than what we have now.

Labour missed a trick with PR. With Scotland seemingly gone forever, there really isn't a clear path to victory for Labour anymore. They need to be making political alliances but with the party in such disarray that seems completely impossible.
 
lalalanded said:
I hold my hands up and admit I'm firmly to the left of 99% of the UK population so for me, Andy Burnham isn't an exciting prospect. I do however think that he would do a far better job than Keir Starmer (who I also believe to be more suited to being a competent civil servant). You have to pick your battles, I am no Blairite but I concede that even a centrist Labour government would be a million times better than what we have now.

Labour missed a trick with PR. With Scotland seemingly gone forever, there really isn't a clear path to victory for Labour anymore. They need to be making political alliances but with the party in such disarray that seems completely impossible.
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My MP Clive Lewis has long made pacts with The Greens where I live but he seems to be a lone voice, and it's not really in places like Norwich South, a University town with a safe Labour seat that they need to be doing it. They need to do it in marginals. They dont need to stack votes in places they already have seats. But as you said, they are so divided who on earth is going to want to go into a coalition with a party at war with itself?
 
EastofHollywood said:
My MP Clive Lewis has long made pacts with The Greens where I live but he seems to be a lone voice, and it's not really in places like Norwich South, a University town with a safe Labour seat that they need to be doing it. They need to do it in marginals. They dont need to stack votes in places they already have seats. But as you said, they are so divided who on earth is going to want to go into a coalition with a party at war with itself?
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I love Clive! I would love to see him as a potential leader but I think the left wing of the party has had its day. They won't be allowed within a sniff of power at least until Starmer is out (but even then I have serious doubts - the right of the party are vicious).

You are absolutely right about the marginals (and sadly it looks like most of Labour's seats are going marginal). The hard work really needs to be put in but I'm afraid there is absolutely zero vision. Hartlepool would have been the opportunity but as I said, they parachuted in a middle class southern remainer and had Peter Mandelson knocking on doors!!! Is it any wonder they got the result they did?!?

I'm generally not a fan of focus groups but they need to get out to those marginals and start speaking to people. It's imperative.

Also, letting sitting MPs run as mayors looks like another pending disaster and no victory for the party. I think Batley & Spen is about to be lost. Utter disaster.

L3moning said:
My guess is that he will agree to correct the official register and maybe pay a token amount of the amounts involved.
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We know there will be zero consequences for him and none of his fan club will care but the bigger story for me is, who is gunning for him? These stories are now coming out on a weekly basis - surely they're no surprise to those in the know. Who is planting the stories? I have my theories!
 
I know I'm Miss Gloom and Doom around these parts but today's Queen's Speech is sinister. We're seeing so many rights being quietly eroded via the back door. The photo voting ID is very scary especially as there is no evidence that voter fraud is an issue in this country. But passports and driving licences cost money that a lot of working class people do not have. They are coming down hard on the right to protest and the worst bit, making the government above the law. Who knew fascism would raise its head in this country via a fat clown? He really is terrifying.
 
lalalanded said:
I know I'm Miss Gloom and Doom around these parts but today's Queen's Speech is sinister. We're seeing so many rights being quietly eroded via the back door. The photo voting ID is very scary especially as there is no evidence that voter fraud is an issue in this country. But passports and driving licences cost money that a lot of working class people do not have. They are coming down hard on the right to protest and the worst bit, making the government above the law. Who knew fascism would raise its head in this country via a fat clown? He really is terrifying.
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If they want to pursue that they need to make Government ID cards available and FREE.

It's amazing how many people don't have photo ID. A lot of older people don't have photo ID. My Mum never had a driving licence or a passport and my Dad no longer has a driving licence and no passport.

I had something a while ago that said I needed proof of where I lived like a utility bill or bank statement. I had neither as all the utilities seem to be in my husbands name all bank statement are all online. There needs to be a serious review of how people can prove their identity.
 
The idea that you should have photo ID to vote is a very blatant attempt at voter suppression. Now people that will be the least likely to vote Conservative will now conveniently find it a lot harder to vote.

It's actually strange to see the US with their own far right pandering clown whose deliberate inaction over Covid caused the death of thousands of his own citizens. That convinced just enough Americans to come back from the edge of complete ruination of their country.

Then we have Britain which has a reputation for being more pragmatic and mature have our own far right pandering clown whose deliberate inaction over Covid caused the death of thousands of his own citizens...and yet instead of this having the same affect we're jumping over the edge to the complete ruination of the UK.
 
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