Baby Reindeer #4

I can't imagine she'd get pip for diabetes. You have to be seriously unwell to get it. Even people who are quite disabled seem to struggle to get it. Many of the questions do seem to centre around mh though which is what got me wondering.

As others have said if she gets a big payout she'll likely lose her benefits so will be interesting to see.
 
I think there will be a legal team that will believe or are confident that there will be a case that she could potentially win or settle outside of court due to the fact Chris Daw kc compiled a statement that was sent to the press. I think it's shocking if she does benefit financially from a crime she has committed (even if she's not convicted). Like I've said before people have their opinions on Richard Gadd but that doesn't take away from the fact he, his family and even other people have been victims of her abusive, obsessive and stalking behaviour. It's so careless that netflix didn't take extra precautions to produce the series with the correct wording that would protect Gadd from the current backlash and potential legal action. I would hate to know someone who caused me harm and distress was able to monopolise on it. She doesn't deserve acknowledgement, never mind a payout. People found her due to tweets, but she came out shouting that Martha isn't her, but it is her. She put herself at the centre and loved every minute of it. She's enjoyed the attention from social media and the mainstream media. It would be really sad for Richard if she was to financially benefit from the harm she caused him. I would also love to see every victim of her emails come out and expose them.
 
I think there will be a legal team that will believe or are confident that there will be a case that she could potentially win or settle outside of court due to the fact Chris Daw kc compiled a statement that was sent to the press. I think it's shocking if she does benefit financially from a crime she has committed (even if she's not convicted). Like I've said before people have their opinions on Richard Gadd but that doesn't take away from the fact he, his family and even other people have been victims of her abusive, obsessive and stalking behaviour. It's so careless that netflix didn't take extra precautions to produce the series with the correct wording that would protect Gadd from the current backlash and potential legal action. I would hate to know someone who caused me harm and distress was able to monopolise on it. She doesn't deserve acknowledgement, never mind a payout. People found her due to tweets, but she came out shouting that Martha isn't her, but it is her. She put herself at the centre and loved every minute of it. She's enjoyed the attention from social media and the mainstream media. It would be really sad for Richard if she was to financially benefit from the harm she caused him. I would also love to see every victim of her emails come out and expose them.
For her to prove defamation - she has to prove loss of earnings/future earnings or damage to her reputation. I honestly don't think she can prove either......if she's claiming benefits at 58 years old, the likelihood of her working in the future is improbable. Her reputation has been damaged for the last 27 years, since harassing Laura, her husband, child and employees. Chris Daw must have taken on the case shortly after he was on Piers Morgan. I doubt he knew about the 276 vicious emails to Keir Starmer that were revealed in the last few days.

People who tend to win defamation cases are few and far between. I think Netflix will stand their ground - they've not even acknowledged that Martha is based on Fiona. They could use the following (as most films outline) : Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead or actual events is purely coincidental
 
I think in reality Netflix took more precaution than we know/ realise. Perhaps Im giving them too much credit. Everybody (including FH herself) keep picking on opening line "this is a trie story". But, like was mentioned here a few times, the Blair Witch and some other series/ films started like this too. So this phrase is for effect. But I personally dont remember or not even looked at what was in closing credits for example. Somehow I feel sure they covered their arse legally. The press, including "lovely" Pierse, have a lot to answer for giving her platform and potentially by this encouraging her in her delusion that she has a case.
 
According to Richard Osmand on The Rest Is Entertainment podcast it's quite difficult under English Law to prove libel.


As I have zero knowledge of law practice, I'll take his word for it! Unless one of the knowledgeable Tattlers can clarify?
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Also - Defamation, Libel, Slander - a very quick Google suggests they're all very similar? Would she sue for one or all 3?
 
According to Richard Osmand on The Rest Is Entertainment podcast it's quite difficult under English Law to prove libel.


As I have zero knowledge of law practice, I'll take his word for it! Unless one of the knowledgeable Tattlers can clarify?
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Also - Defamation, Libel, Slander - a very quick Google suggests they're all very similar? Would she sue for one or all 3?
Defamation is the group word : spoken word = slander - libel = written form
 
With Johnny and Amber, didnt he lose that case against Sun, because Sun or whatever reprinted the info they were given by her ? But won defamation because of what she actually write in op-ed ? Very grey area for civilians but that example helped me understand 😇 So she could sue gadd but not netflix because they acted in information they were given?
 
According to Richard Osmand on The Rest Is Entertainment podcast it's quite difficult under English Law to prove libel.


As I have zero knowledge of law practice, I'll take his word for it! Unless one of the knowledgeable Tattlers can clarify?
---
Also - Defamation, Libel, Slander - a very quick Google suggests they're all very similar? Would she sue for one or all 3?
It is very difficult and usually only successful when you're a celebrity or large business owner etc. It's not enough that someones lies about you - you have to show you've lost something that gives rise to damages. In my opinion Fiona has not. She does not have work or a livelihood to lose. She is not a public figure who might lose work such as Johnny Depp. As has also been pointed out over and over again, neither Gadd nor Netflix have said Fiona is Martha, even now. Truth is a defence to defamation, anything about stalking I expect will be covered under that. People keep saying it's not enough that Netflix said 'it's a true story' with some other statement at the end - without being a media lawyer, I would really expect that the Netflix legal team either knows enough about media law to know they've sufficiently covered themselves, OR they have already built a realistic quantum settlement into the budget for the show, on the basis that this has all riled up a lot of attention for the platform.

The only other thing I would say is look carefully at who is saying they will take on Fiona's case or that she has a case. Look at what kind of work Chris Daw KC does, look at the fact Piers Morgan keeps asking American lawyers out of our jurisdiction to comment, look VERY carefully at how the statements from lawyers in this jurisdiction are framed - in my opinion, they all want the public to think she has a case, but if you read between the lines, it's a different story. Not helped by people going 'what about duty of care' (duty of care has limits, it doesn't apply to everyone you'd think it might and it has a strict test to determine where it does apply or not) and 'what about her reputation' (again means something different legally than you'd think).
 
I can't understand how she can be on benefits. She has no obvious health conditions (if you ignore the mh issues). She's apparently a qualified lawyer living in London where there would be plenty of jobs. My guess is she is on pip due to mh issues 🤔
It's very obvious how she can be on benefits. Would you employ her? Plus many people have health issues that you can't see - you can't tell who has cancer by looking at them.

PIP is nowhere enough to live on, and is supposed to help pay for the extra expenses disabled or chronically ill people have. You can claim it if you're a millionaire and work 90 hours a week. It's not related to not working.
 
It's very obvious how she can be on benefits. Would you employ her? Plus many people have health issues that you can't see - you can't tell who has cancer by looking at them.

PIP is nowhere enough to live on, and is supposed to help pay for the extra expenses disabled or chronically ill people have. You can claim it if you're a millionaire and work 90 hours a week. It's not related to not working.
To be honest I know very little about benefits as no personal experience, fortunately. I do know that if you're on JSA they expect you to take any job that you're fit enough to do. I do see lots of pip applications at work though & I know how strict that is. Of course we have no idea about why she doesn't wor,k, but it is probably fair to assume she's unemployable due to her vile personality.
 
It is very difficult and usually only successful when you're a celebrity or large business owner etc. It's not enough that someones lies about you - you have to show you've lost something that gives rise to damages. In my opinion Fiona has not. She does not have work or a livelihood to lose. She is not a public figure who might lose work such as Johnny Depp. As has also been pointed out over and over again, neither Gadd nor Netflix have said Fiona is Martha, even now. Truth is a defence to defamation, anything about stalking I expect will be covered under that. People keep saying it's not enough that Netflix said 'it's a true story' with some other statement at the end - without being a media lawyer, I would really expect that the Netflix legal team either knows enough about media law to know they've sufficiently covered themselves, OR they have already built a realistic quantum settlement into the budget for the show, on the basis that this has all riled up a lot of attention for the platform.

The only other thing I would say is look carefully at who is saying they will take on Fiona's case or that she has a case. Look at what kind of work Chris Daw KC does, look at the fact Piers Morgan keeps asking American lawyers out of our jurisdiction to comment, look VERY carefully at how the statements from lawyers in this jurisdiction are framed - in my opinion, they all want the public to think she has a case, but if you read between the lines, it's a different story. Not helped by people going 'what about duty of care' (duty of care has limits, it doesn't apply to everyone you'd think it might and it has a strict test to determine where it does apply or not) and 'what about her reputation' (again means something different legally than you'd think).
Thank you, that's really informative and has helped my understanding.
 
They have it -or similar- at the end of each episode stating that characters and situations have been created for dramatic purposes.
So you could argue the premiss is true - there are stalkers out there who’s actions have far reaching consequences, it’s incredibly hard to prove the stalking & obtain some resolution through law, the stalker can’t identify with the harm they have done as the don’t see that pouring all that attention on someone is wrong or harmful, the abused has the potential to become the abuser, people who suffer trauma may be left open to further abuse and it takes one show (good or so bad it’s good) to really turn around an entertainers career. 🤷🏽‍♀️ Just a few of my musings having had an extremely long week at work!
 
Day 17 - morning session of Depp v Heard on Emily D Baker's yt channel. Emily explains defamation in the USA in the Q&A section of the video....and what has to be proven.....it's pretty much identical to our defamation laws (the YT video is highly entertaining as it includes Heard's cross examination)
 
Day 17 - morning session of Depp v Heard on Emily D Baker's yt channel. Emily explains defamation in the USA in the Q&A section of the video....and what has to be proven.....it's pretty much identical to our defamation laws (the YT video is highly entertaining as it includes Heard's cross examination)
TV gold! Also a big fan of watching her deposition - what a mess!

Would be great to see Fiona on the stand 🤣
 
Saw this on FB earlier:

"There’s a lawyer in the news today giving a detailed breakdown of the scenes that Netflix should have cut from Baby Reindeer to stop ‘Martha’ being identified in real life.
I agree with their list entirely, including the crucial scene in the streaming giant’s production where Fiona Harvey gives an interview to a few papers and then goes onto Piers Morgan’s show. Oh wait that happened afterwards, didn’t it? 😂 😂 😂 "
 
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