My Unorthodox life - Netflix

[emm]

Those camps are so brainwashing and awful. Julia is right - it is fundamentalism. I see so many Jews in the community criticise Islam for being oppressive and backwards - they should look within their own religion before pointing the finger. These ultra-orthodox Jews live about 5 minutes away from me yet you’d never know because they don’t travel beyond about four streets. Not to mention a lot of these people can’t even assimilate if they want to because the communities insist on speaking Yiddish 24/7 so the children don’t even grow up learning English. The son is only 14 so hopefully isn’t too far gone. Not comparing Haredi Judaism to this at all but a lot of the children who were brought up in the Westboro Baptist Church and even advocated for them as young adults ended up seeing the light and leaving eventually. Again, not comparing Jews to the utter antisemitic scummy cult who want us dead but it is proof that there is always a way out, no matter how far gone you once were.

yeah I was surpised she agreed for him to go, abd she paid for it!

 

[orlyb1310]

This reminds me so much of many stories I’ve heard from friends and family over the years.
I’m from a modern family. My husbands family is more conservative. My mother in law doesn’t speak English because she never had to despite being in the UK for 60 years.
I wear a wig to weddings and dress modestly anyway. The first time I wore jeans in front of my in laws was hilarious

I’m just worried that this type of show is putting Judaism in a bad light that a certain community will jump on and attack more of us.

I agree - so many of the shows about Judaism on Netflix portray people fleeing the ultra Orthodox community. There needs to be more showing how the rest of us live .

 

[emm]

I agree - so many of the shows about Judaism on Netflix portray people fleeing the ultra Orthodox community. There needs to be more showing how the rest of us live .

yeah but where is the drama in that there are a couple of jewish people on real housewives franchieses aren't there? Kyle and her family are (albeit it is rarely mentioned I guess). I don't think The Jewish community come across badly in this though, the daughter and her husband don't seem at all "extreme" and even the dad comes across as very moderate compared to what I would have expected.
Alternatively just come up with a catchy title and pitch a show about your family? I am thinking a Jewish version of the kardashians vibe?

 

[Bubblesandflowers]

yeah but where is the drama in that there are a couple of jewish people on real housewives franchieses aren't there? Kyle and her family are (albeit it is rarely mentioned I guess). I don't think The Jewish community come across badly in this though, the daughter and her husband don't seem at all "extreme" and even the dad comes across as very moderate compared to what I would have expected.
Alternatively just come up with a catchy title and pitch a show about your family? I am thinking a Jewish version of the kardashians vibe?

Keeping up with the Cohen's
I have to agree - Yosef came across a lot better to how I feel they made him out to be. He seemed to be very accepting of Miriam's choice with her name.
I kinda feel where Ben was coming from too. He married into an orthodox family and then literally not long after the wedding everyone took a step back from that. It's like you've been mislead into things?

I agree - so many of the shows about Judaism on Netflix portray people fleeing the ultra Orthodox community. There needs to be more showing how the rest of us live .

Yeah I think that is the problem. It is always women stay at home having babies or juggle work whilst the men study Torah.

 

[emm]

Keeping up with the Cohen's
I have to agree - Yosef came across a lot better to how I feel they made him out to be. He seemed to be very accepting of Miriam's choice with her name.
I kinda feel where Ben was coming from too. He married into an orthodox family and then literally not long after the wedding everyone took a step back from that. It's like you've been mislead into things?



Yeah I think that is the problem. It is always women stay at home having babies or juggle work whilst the men study Torah.

Love it, I would 100% watch, gap in the market now that the Kardashians are ending too
Yeah, I feel bad for Ben, would be interesting to see how his family reacted to it, seems like they are very much still orthodox. I have no finished the series and have so many questions about this whole situation, I was interested in how she told her ex she was leaving, how he reacted etc, how Ben reacted, if he questioned maybe ending the marriage (which would be a fair decision on his part imo) and how are they SO insanely rich, I didn't realise until like episode 9 they have (what seems like)a full time person working in their house, is it just from her new husband?

 

[orlyb1310]

yeah but where is the drama in that there are a couple of jewish people on real housewives franchieses aren't there? Kyle and her family are (albeit it is rarely mentioned I guess). I don't think The Jewish community come across badly in this though, the daughter and her husband don't seem at all "extreme" and even the dad comes across as very moderate compared to what I would have expected.
Alternatively just come up with a catchy title and pitch a show about your family? I am thinking a Jewish version of the kardashians vibe?

Lauren on Real Housewives of Cheshire is the epitome of a rich secular Manchester Jew Julia did seem to have quite a fortunate escape from the community. You hear too many horror stories of people who are literally excommunicated and aren't allowed contact with their family again after leaving.

 

[emm]

Lauren on Real Housewives of Cheshire is the epitome of a rich secular Manchester Jew Julia did seem to have quite a fortunate escape from the community. You hear too many horror stories of people who are literally excommunicated and aren't allowed contact with their family again after leaving.

Ah I don;t watch Cheshire, never managed to get into it!
Yeah, I watched a really interesting documentary about it (I think on HBO) about someone who left an abusive partner, he was able to get custody of the children and she was basically stalked and harassed for leaving, very sad

 

[Bubblesandflowers]

I think Ben seems lovely. I think I have a soft spot for him because I can relate. I was told that I would be marrying into one thing but turned out to be another. I was promised my mother in law would be in Israel half the year and UK the next. In the last 14 years she has spent only 3 months in Israel.
We had problems at first because she wanted me to wear a wig to work and everywhere outside. I used to wear it a fair amount anyway but being pressured into doing it made me rebel. Eventually I kicked off and refused. I will only wear it on special occasions or when I need to be respectful now.

Oh guys don't be sad please lol. Life can suck and MILs are pains but I'm blessed. I work hard, love the man my son is turning into and my husband is a pretty good guy. It's just I think I can relate to how Ben might feel - I feel like I was mis sold my future like a bad PPI claim lol.

 

[Everybody]

I’m just starting to watch this show.

I actually work very closely with a lot of orthodox Jewish people, and their kids to enable equal access to health services for children. To me it actually like husbands really respect their wives,and whilst their “roles” may be different, their viewpoints are very valued alongside their “positions”.

I’ve had some funny cases where the men wil consent for their children to do an activity, only to have their wife call back apologising for their husbands . Obviously not all families are the same, but I’ve been very welcomed by the community personally whenever I go.

also some of the mothers do”side hustles” or their own jobs too as their kids grow up.

Those camps are so brainwashing and awful. Julia is right - it is fundamentalism. I see so many Jews in the community criticise Islam for being oppressive and backwards - they should look within their own religion before pointing the finger. These ultra-orthodox Jews live about 5 minutes away from me yet you’d never know because they don’t travel beyond about four streets. Not to mention a lot of these people can’t even assimilate if they want to because the communities insist on speaking Yiddish 24/7 so the children don’t even grow up learning English. The son is only 14 so hopefully isn’t too far gone. Not comparing Haredi Judaism to this at all but a lot of the children who were brought up in the Westboro Baptist Church and even advocated for them as young adults ended up seeing the light and leaving eventually. Again, not comparing Jews to the utter antisemitic scummy cult who want us dead but it is proof that there is always a way out, no matter how far gone you once were.

It’s interesting this is your experience with the community. Mine is very different. Are you living within the UK?

I had lots of culture shocks- mainly around the way you dress, very specific Jewish cudtims, and the every day way of life. For me too the camps seem like you said, brain washing. But of course I’ve never been there so don’t know. Lots of them seem very well travelled- and not just to Israel. One lady I work with has been all around Italy, used to live in Belgium, USA. Has been all around the UK. Her husband was able to give me paper directions from a specific part of Manchester to London (which I thought was pretty impressive given they don’t use google maps)- and tbh it was pretty accurate.

all the children I spoke to are are perfectly bilingual. And the parents speak excellent English too. Maybe it’s a privacy thing where they like to speak English in public?
My experience is- would I like to be part of the community? Personally no- and from my views on life yes it is a very secular community. However, My idea of being “oppressed” is likely different to what theirs is. Not everyone wants to live their life exactly the same way as everyone else. And it’s obvious that lots of women within the community are very happy, and the tight knit sense of community, they say always makes them feel happy and supported, and never lonely. Women to and party with other women too- I know a few who could likely drink me under the table.... some have businesses, some motivational speakers, some express their own individuality in different ways like wigs, funky clothes etc.

sorry for the rant- but I really feel my eyes have been opened up more to their community recently. However, of course there are lots of young women who do probably feel they are oppressed- similarly there are young men. Young men have a lot of expectations on them, going to pray, living your entire daily life dedicated to the Torah,pressures of being married.
The religion and way of life certainly isn’t for eveyone, but it is for some people.

 

[acctbside]

Julia Haart’s story is so necessary. It is nothing to do with hating Judaism and everything to do with Monsey. My mother had a nervous breakdown after losing both her mother and brother within a year of each other and she moved our family to the outskirts of Monsey when I was five years old. She was constantly pushing the envelope on what my family was okay with. Despite her and my father working, our family was poor because she insisted on sending us to private yeshivas. My education was flushed down the drain because of a subpar school that insisted I enroll as a condition of accepting my oldest sibling who was only going to be in attendance for one year before attending 9th grade, which they did not offer. The rabbi of our community should have advised her to move me into a better school but he was busy tending to his own interests. To this day, I struggle with feeling comfortable about gossip because of how much it was drilled into my education that gossip was a bad thing. The rabbi sexually preyed on vulnerable women in the congregation (e.g., women who were seeking advice about their marriage) and would turn around and give sermons every weekend about the prohibition of believing gossip. I remember our Saturday mornings would revolve around my mother sleeping in, having a coffee and reading a mindless book, then rushing off to synagogue in time to hear his gospel. His die hard followers finally had to snap out of it when one of his victims procured explicit audio tapes of him during the act — on one of them he even declared he was the messiah. The rabbi wasn’t a nobody who rolled into town and set up tent: He was the child of the most prominent rabbi in Monsey who had something like a dynastic legacy. When it came to believing the accusers it had been a she said-this prince said situation.
My mother used to drag me to do shopping in Monsey. Everywhere you went they used to play Yiddish songs imploring God to deliver the Messiah. The saving grace was when a supermarket played songs set to the tune of Eurovision hits. TV and anything secular was shunned so it was a long time before learning that the upbeat tunes were not a product of the community.
For a woman like Julia who loves color and fashion, Monsey’s an unfortunate place to be. Everyone’s weekday clothing were different shades of dark navy which occasionally got punctuated by black. The most painful part was that women were pushed to the peripheries: white stickers were put over products that used a woman’s faces to advertise. Men’s version of the same products were left alone. If a man worked the register, he would not look at you and would put the change on the counter, making sure not to touch you. On a subconscious level, this is hurtful. I know the precepts involved but for the developing mind of a social creature this is confusing. You’re not taught what sex is yet you are taught this lesson that something about your presence is offensive to this stranger. The men hold a lot of power in this way of life. It is a boon for men and a bust for the women. There’s a lot of gaslighting that goes on to convince women of their elevated status in the community. The men often rely on the women to subsidize their lifestyle and raise their family.

I am so tired of the my orthodox life hashtag that is currently trending on Facebook. I’m about ready to scream: Great that Modern Orthodoxy works for you! She is 100% not talking about your experience!!!!!! All of the people writing these long posts are defending a lifestyle that they knowingly opted into. Her story is not meant for them

 

[orlyb1310]

Julia Haart’s story is so necessary. It is nothing to do with hating Judaism and everything to do with Monsey. My mother had a nervous breakdown after losing both her mother and brother within a year of each other and she moved our family to the outskirts of Monsey when I was five years old. She was constantly pushing the envelope on what my family was okay with. Despite her and my father working, our family was poor because she insisted on sending us to private yeshivas. My education was flushed down the drain because of a subpar school that insisted I enroll as a condition of accepting my oldest sibling who was only going to be in attendance for one year before attending 9th grade, which they did not offer. The rabbi of our community should have advised her to move me into a better school but he was busy tending to his own interests. To this day, I struggle with feeling comfortable about gossip because of how much it was drilled into my education that gossip was a bad thing. The rabbi sexually preyed on vulnerable women in the congregation (e.g., women who were seeking advice about their marriage) and would turn around and give sermons every weekend about the prohibition of believing gossip. I remember our Saturday mornings would revolve around my mother sleeping in, having a coffee and reading a mindless book, then rushing off to synagogue in time to hear his gospel. His die hard followers finally had to snap out of it when one of his victims procured explicit audio tapes of him during the act — on one of them he even declared he was the messiah. The rabbi wasn’t a nobody who rolled into town and set up tent: He was the child of the most prominent rabbi in Monsey who had something like a dynastic legacy. When it came to believing the accusers it had been a she said-this prince said situation.
My mother used to drag me to do shopping in Monsey. Everywhere you went they used to play Yiddish songs imploring God to deliver the Messiah. The saving grace was when a supermarket played songs set to the tune of Eurovision hits. TV and anything secular was shunned so it was a long time before learning that the upbeat tunes were not a product of the community.
For a woman like Julia who loves color and fashion, Monsey’s an unfortunate place to be. Everyone’s weekday clothing were different shades of dark navy which occasionally got punctuated by black. The most painful part was that women were pushed to the peripheries: white stickers were put over products that used a woman’s faces to advertise. Men’s version of the same products were left alone. If a man worked the register, he would not look at you and would put the change on the counter, making sure not to touch you. On a subconscious level, this is hurtful. I know the precepts involved but for the developing mind of a social creature this is confusing. You’re not taught what sex is yet you are taught this lesson that something about your presence is offensive to this stranger. The men hold a lot of power in this way of life. It is a boon for men and a bust for the women. There’s a lot of gaslighting that goes on to convince women of their elevated status in the community. The men often rely on the women to subsidize their lifestyle and raise their family.

I am so tired of the my orthodox life hashtag that is currently trending on Facebook. I’m about ready to scream: Great that Modern Orthodoxy works for you! She is 100% not talking about your experience!!!!!! All of the people writing these long posts are defending a lifestyle that they knowingly opted into. Her story is not meant for them

Thank you for sharing your story

 

[acctbside]

Thank you for listening I honestly don’t know what I would do sometimes without Tattle.

 

[Bubblesandflowers]

Julia setting up Aron’s ex girlfriend to be at the same place they’re eating that is such a mum thing to do!

 

[hungrycaterpillar]

So first of all, poor Silvio! He seems to have the patience of a Saint. Though I guess things could be different behind closed doors.

Also, Julia appears to have come from money, not the kind of money she has now but judging by the old photos and Yosef's house she didn't come from nothing, and surely she must have had a good chunk of cash to start making shoes? She makes it sound like she left with nothing... Thoughts?

 

[orlyb1310]

So first of all, poor Silvio! He seems to have the patience of a Saint. Though I guess things could be different behind closed doors.

Also, Julia appears to have come from money, not the kind of money she has now but judging by the old photos and Yosef's house she didn't come from nothing, and surely she must have had a good chunk of cash to start making shoes? She makes it sound like she left with nothing... Thoughts?

It does seem kind of impossible for her to have left with nothing and become this big CEO so quickly. I’m sure those who have been in an ultra orthodox Jewish community could answer better but in my area especially, these families have unlimited kids but the woman doesn’t work and the man chooses bible study over a job so money is scarce and they’re all packed like sardines in a small house. While Julia lived the same oppressive lifestyle in Monsey, she seemed to have more access to funds than most women in the community. Even at Batsheva’s wedding, everybody looked very glam.

 

[emm]

It does seem kind of impossible for her to have left with nothing and become this big CEO so quickly. I’m sure those who have been in an ultra orthodox Jewish community could answer better but in my area especially, these families have unlimited kids but the woman doesn’t work and the man chooses bible study over a job so money is scarce and they’re all packed like sardines in a small house. While Julia lived the same oppressive lifestyle in Monsey, she seemed to have more access to funds than most women in the community. Even at Batsheva’s wedding, everybody looked very glam.

yeah I got the impression that her ex must have had a good job, their house seemed very big, I also get the impression she is funded a lot by her new husband, no way is she earning enough to fund her lifestyle from a totally unknown company

 

[hungrycaterpillar]

It does seem kind of impossible for her to have left with nothing and become this big CEO so quickly. I’m sure those who have been in an ultra orthodox Jewish community could answer better but in my area especially, these families have unlimited kids but the woman doesn’t work and the man chooses bible study over a job so money is scarce and they’re all packed like sardines in a small house. While Julia lived the same oppressive lifestyle in Monsey, she seemed to have more access to funds than most women in the community. Even at Batsheva’s wedding, everybody looked very glam.

Thank you so much for your insight. I don't really know anything about the Jewish religion or the communities, except for what I've seen on Netflix, TikTok or read about. I find it fascinating. So thank you, and if you are happy to answer the following, but if not, of course that's fine.

So Monsey, and other areas, can non Jews live there? Work there?

Do we have areas similar in the UK?

Is it really okay for Julia to take Aron for dinner in Monsey, or go to the supermarket dressed in hotpants, sleeveless, platform shoes etc?

Genuinely very curious, and respectful ❤

 

[emm]

Thank you so much for your insight. I don't really know anything about the Jewish religion or the communities, except for what I've seen on Netflix, TikTok or read about. I find it fascinating. So thank you, and if you are happy to answer the following, but if not, of course that's fine.

So Monsey, and other areas, can non Jews live there? Work there?

Do we have areas similar in the UK?

Is it really okay for Julia to take Aron for dinner in Monsey, or go to the supermarket dressed in hotpants, sleeveless, platform shoes etc?

Genuinely very curious, and respectful ❤

I am not Jewish, but there is an area in north London, which I cannot remember exactly where but that is a very insular orthodox jewish community, iiirc they have their own police/security force. I worked in golders green which is nearby (also lots of Jewish businesses there - lots of amazing food especially - with signage in Hebrew). When I was working there there was a big scandal as the orthodox jewish school wanted to ban women from driving their children to school, not sure what ended up happening with it tbh

 

[Bubblesandflowers]

An area similar in the UK is Stamford Hill. Beautiful area, quite a lot more orthodox jews here. Our supermarkets carry more Kosher foods in the world food aisles compared to other places. We have our own private police force called Shomrim here too.

You will also find that people will try to buy houses next to each other to try and stick together. And I've seen people put up an Eruv. It is basically a string to make a boundary around the property/street so you can carry items which would be forbidden during Sabbath. The most notable one I can think of being house keys!

 

[sephylily]

Julia's story is so much less impressive when you realise Silvio bought Elite in 2011 and she only became the CEO in 2019 after they got married. They're very determined to obscure this to make her look like a self-made boss lady and whilst she might have worked hard in some areas and definitely struggled in Monsey, I really don't believe being the CEO of your husbands business is all that impressive.
One of us is another interesting documentary on Netflix about orthodox jews.