Baby Reindeer Netflix #2

Status
Thread locked. We start a new thread when they have over 1000 posts, click the blue button to see all threads for this topic and find the latest open thread.
1 Sort by date Sort by reaction score 2
BessieNessie said:
Put it this way, all through the show he acknowledges that they were a meeting of dysfunction. He even chooses Martha over Teri when put on the spot and all the characters including him say that he encouraged her behaviours. She had recorded hours of him chatting and flirting with her etc to the extent that she thought they were in a relationship and he even ‘broke up with her”. i feel he’s saying she was a victim of her MH, her compulsion to stalk and the circumstances that brought it out in her to that extent - the lack of help from society. The whole story covers the blurred lines between consent, victim and perpetrator and how the perceptions can be different.
Click to expand...
Bit in bold: this is what people suffering from Limerence believe. They become infatuated with someone and that person's every interaction from then on is seen as something deep and meaningful. The person might say 'take care now' as someone leaves the pub/café and the other person sees that as a confirmation that they care about them. There was a long-running thread on Mumsnet (yes, I know) where posters discussed their stalking their Limerence Objects and it was all very bizarre and disturbing, so much so that Mumsnet deleted the thread and banned the posters. It wouldn't surprise me if Martha was one of them.
 
greycloud said:
Can you link me to where he says she is a victim in this story? I have done quick google search but only thing I can find is him saying "she was a victim" talking about her past trauma.
Click to expand...

What I remember him saying was that he felt sorry for her and feels that he can relate to her in certain ways re mental health.. He said that she was unwell and had empathy for her. This is partly why he kept putting off reporting her, and why he took her home from the bus stop at 3am..

I don’t believe that makes her a victim though, I’m wondering what she’s a victim of in Gadds situation?? I agree with was a victim of her childhood, but that’s not Gadds fault…
 
Serene Serena said:
Bit in bold: this is what people suffering from Limerence believe. They become infatuated with someone and that person's every interaction from then on is seen as something deep and meaningful. The person might say 'take care now' as someone leaves the pub/café and the other person sees that as a confirmation that they care about them. There was a long-running thread on Mumsnet (yes, I know) where posters discussed their stalking their Limerence Objects and it was all very bizarre and disturbing, so much so that Mumsnet deleted the thread and banned the posters. It wouldn't surprise me if Martha was one of them.
Click to expand...

I feel this is probably what happened. He gave her a free cup of tea as he felt sorry for her and this ignited something in her, someone cared about her probably for the first time in a very long time. It seems maybe as a child she didn't feel much love or care and he showed her a small gratitude and she clung onto it. Because he didn't want to upset/enrage her he kept offering small gestures of care - getting her inside after she spent days in the bus stop for example (although this may have been dramatised). Also it's petty much human nature to care about others too, even if they are horrible at times. They probably did have a complex relationship, who doesn't? She also probably found it hard to distinguish a platonic relationship from a romantic one.

For example, I have a male friend who calls me beaut. If I read into it too much I'd think he was into me; he's not. I know that. But someone like Martha would take that at face value.
 
wilbz90 said:
Delusions of grandeur also come to mind re FH after catching up on all her statuses.
Click to expand...

It won't help people calling her a lawyer when the law society confirmed that she was never a lawyer and never even trained as one, back in the year 2000 and she certainly has not been since.

Having a law degree does not make a lawyer there is alot more to it.

She in her poor mental state believes it and others write it as if it's fact and she has latched onto it over and over
 
justonemorepage said:
I feel this is probably what happened. He gave her a free cup of tea as he felt sorry for her and this ignited something in her, someone cared about her probably for the first time in a very long time. It seems maybe as a child she didn't feel much love or care and he showed her a small gratitude and she clung onto it. Because he didn't want to upset/enrage her he kept offering small gestures of care - getting her inside after she spent days in the bus stop for example (although this may have been dramatised). Also it's petty much human nature to care about others too, even if they are horrible at times. They probably did have a complex relationship, who doesn't? She also probably found it hard to distinguish a platonic relationship from a romantic one.

For example, I have a male friend who calls me beaut. If I read into it too much I'd think he was into me; he's not. I know that. But someone like Martha would take that at face value.
Click to expand...
One of the guys at work always says 'hiya gorgeous' when he sees me. He definitely doesn't fancy me, he's married and his husband is far more gorgeous than me :D But I could see how someone naïve and inexperienced in ordinary social interactions could misinterpret a greeting like that as 'OMG he loves me!'
 
justonemorepage said:
I feel this is probably what happened. He gave her a free cup of tea as he felt sorry for her and this ignited something in her, someone cared about her probably for the first time in a very long time. It seems maybe as a child she didn't feel much love or care and he showed her a small gratitude and she clung onto it. Because he didn't want to upset/enrage her he kept offering small gestures of care - getting her inside after she spent days in the bus stop for example (although this may have been dramatised). Also it's petty much human nature to care about others too, even if they are horrible at times. They probably did have a complex relationship, who doesn't? She also probably found it hard to distinguish a platonic relationship from a romantic one.

For example, I have a male friend who calls me beaut. If I read into it too much I'd think he was into me; he's not. I know that. But someone like Martha would take that at face value.
Click to expand...

this! some people super maldaptively daydream about these things. i worked with a girl once who (any time we went for a team meal) would be convinced that the waiter/barman whoever was being flirty with her when they were usually just being a standard chatty hospitality person. but something in her was always like omg this guy is so into me! didn’t you think that guy was so flirty towards me?!

like you say, it makes sense that someone like martha would take all of these small acts of empathy as “evidence” of caring on a much deeper level and i suppose it’s sadly too easy to spiral from there, especially with her other issues.
 
Cluck Cluck 🐔
df.gif
 
Serene Serena said:
There’s not really any psychiatric intervention available for someone like her, unless she escalates her behaviour from online to real life. Suicidal people are lucky if they manage to get a crisis team referral. A woman posting nonsense on Facebook isn’t going to be a priority - unless she already has a CPN.
Click to expand...
And even if she has a CPN, my experience of a very similar person is that there is no treatment really. In my case the person was even sectioned briefly and that wasn’t enough, they swiftly challenged the section and were released (funnily enough, also a “former law professional”!)
 
CookieMonsta said:
I'm sorry Bessie, but this in itself is not so subtle victim blaming. You are insinuating that he did something to lead her on and thus in some sense its his fault that she went batshit crazy obsessed over him and stalked him. You mention in an earlier post that every character in the show, RG included admits he encouraged her. But you frame that in black and white without any nuance. Nobody teaches you how to deal with a stalker, especially one who is obviously broken and vulnerable, who you feel compassion for but are also scared of, especially when you don't want to trigger them into even more dangerous behaviour, so instead you placate them, not realising that will just encourage them in their delusions. He obviously felt sorry for her, still does, knows that she has been hurt in her past and doesn't want to see her hurt again, but he also wants to tell his story. This is a conflict victims often feel, especially when their abuser is family or someone they cared about or have compassion for. They feel responsible for their well-being, for protecting them, even as they want to speak out and get justice for themselves. Many abusers groom their victims to feel sorry for them and to blame themselves to keep them silent and protect themselves and it can be a real mindfuck for victims.

My interpretation of him saying she is also a victim in this story is that she is a victim of her own past, that something tragic happened to her that damaged her psychologically and emotionally and makes her a victim of her own damaged mental health, and thus she acts out in this way. But even if he did lead her on, he didn't deserve what she did to him, and she alone is responsible for her choices and her behaviour. She's faced legal repercussions for stalking before, she may not be able to control herself, but she knows what she was doing is wrong.
---

Sadly the nice guy phenomenon is very much in existence today.
Click to expand...

I respect your POV and see where you’re coming from but I do see him as a victim I just don’t see him as being the only victim or only a victim (iykwim) I feel it’s a clash of personality/vulnerability and dysfunction. I’m going to stop yapping on but the fact he says she’s in his past and he isn’t concerned the show would trigger her again had people thinking she’s dead. So what happened? What has changed so much that he no longer fears her stalking? She doesn’t look like she’s changed, so has he? Asking why she went after him as opposed to someone else or why he went along with communication isn’t blaming it’s just looking to understand the dynamics.
I really believe her unpleasantness is part and parcel of her MH conditions. I’m bowing out because I want to have a laugh at her but I can’t unless she turns out to be a really resilient old battle axe. .

- Sent from my knocked-off TonePhone
 
LaBlonde said:
this! some people super maldaptively daydream about these things. i worked with a girl once who (any time we went for a team meal) would be convinced that the waiter/barman whoever was being flirty with her when they were usually just being a standard chatty hospitality person. but something in her was always like omg this guy is so into me! didn’t you think that guy was so flirty towards me?!

like you say, it makes sense that someone like martha would take all of these small acts of empathy as “evidence” of caring on a much deeper level and i suppose it’s sadly too easy to spiral from there, especially with her other issues.
Click to expand...
I hadn't heard of maladaptive daydreaming before, but having read up on it, it describes how someone can go from fantasising about a relationship with someone, to actually believing they are in a relationship with them. Celebrities who have been the victims of stalkers for example - Harry Styles bought a homeless person some food, and that led to a horrifying series of events for the poor fella.
Harry Styles’ stalker admits breaching restraining order | The Independent
 
Serene Serena said:
I hadn't heard of maladaptive daydreaming before, but having read up on it, it describes how someone can go from fantasising about a relationship with someone, to actually believing they are in a relationship with them. Celebrities who have been the victims of stalkers for example - Harry Styles bought a homeless person some food, and that led to a horrifying series of events for the poor fella.
Harry Styles’ stalker admits breaching restraining order | The Independent
Click to expand...

it’s an interesting thing! i used to get it (to varying degrees) as part of my ocd (not, i should stress, in the same way as stalking someone more about just daydreaming in general) and i guess you can see how the lines blur between fantasy and reality, especially for someone like martha whose “reality” maybe wasn’t a particularly nice place for her to be.

i suppose it’s more potent with a celebrity (especially with the current stan culture) because it’s easy to pretend you “know” them or that you have a connection with them. i always think that taylor swift sometimes plays a dangerous game with this but that’s maybe for another thread!
 
veevee04 said:
With respect you know absolutely nothing about me. I have 9 ACEs by statistics I should be in dead , a drug addict in prison or long term psychiatric care. I am none of these , my own mother tried to murder me during one of her episodes I've also been SA at the age of 12. I could write a freaking book and do a play I won't because what's the point ? It's rehashing the past there's nothing I can change it happened . I don't drink, I don't do drugs I am in full time employment which I enjoy , goodish pay. Have a good home. I've not needed any therapy in 12 years because I thought duck the dysfunction.
I live a good life, it's not backwards it's thinking forwards. We cannot control what happened to us but we can control what happens going forwards.
Click to expand...

With respect, I didn't claim to. I just do not think you get to dictate how someone should respond to trauma.

I have the same mindset as you and i've been through the ringer in life. Very sorry to hear everything you've been through. And I also don't agree with people that wallow. But I don't think Gadd is wallowing. I think him making this show is him moving forward. This might be his way of releasing his emotions and getting through the trauma. He's made somehting positive out of his traumatic experinces. Yes, the response that's happened since the show isn't ideal for him or "Martha," but I don't think that should take away from the original message.
 
Status
Thread locked. We start a new thread when they have over 1000 posts, click the blue button to see all threads for this topic and find the latest open thread.
Back
Top